Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Peej on January 15, 2020, 11:10:25 AM
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Back to full fitness, and called up to the Wales squad for the 6 Nations!
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Congrats but sh1t another one potentially missing when needed by us. Selfish but realistic
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Didn't even know he was eligible!
He won't miss the whole tournament, and will be available when not required as there's no player release agreement with Wales. But he'll probably miss the Sarries game.
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Where has this been reported?
I wasn't even aware he was eligible.. but how does he qualify under the Wales selection policy if he's playing outside of Wales?
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Wales squad for 2020 Six Nations
Forwards: Rhys Carre (Saracens), Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Leon Brown (Dragons), WillGriff John (Sale), Dillon Lewis (Blues), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (capt; Ospreys), Will Rowlands (Wasps), Cory Hill (Dragons), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ross Moriarty (Dragons), Josh Navidi (Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).
Backs: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Toulon), Tomos Williams (Blues), Dan Biggar (Northampton), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Jarrod Evans (Blues), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Nick Tompkins (Saracens), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), George North (Ospreys), Josh Adams (Blues), Owen Lane (Blues), Johnny McNicholl (Scarlets), Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester), Jonah Holmes (Leicester Tigers), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Saracens).
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Gatland Law been lifted?
No place for YY though.
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Will Rowlands (born 19 September 1991) is a Welsh rugby union player who plays for Wasps in the Aviva Premiership and was named in the Wales 2020 6 nations squad.
Wow. Quick update in Wikipedia.
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Players only have to play in Wales after they've been recognised. They can finish out their contract whereever they are first. So basically, Wales have likely put us in a position to start looking for a replacement unfortunately.
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Interesting, good on him! and yet no YY.
According to Welsh fans, debutants are fine, but you must have the intention of moving to Wales first.
E.g. Webb hasn't been selected for ages but he now has the intention of going to Ospreys now he can be picked again.
Or Rowlands hasn't played any games so gets an opportunity. If he gets capped he has to have intention of moving back to Wales before he's capped again.
By that Logic YY isn't going back to Wales?
And Raggs, that's only if Rowlands is considered the future and is serious contender for starting lock and certain of caps.
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Well I'm pleased twice over. I remember his great try at Bristol last season.
Louis Rees-Zammit is in the same situation as Will, as was Carre. He has just signed an extension to his Gloucester contract so can stay there for 2-3 years Not sure how long Will's contract has to go.The interesting issue is whether Pivac will change the policy of not selecting players based outside Wales. It limits his choices and also limits the options for players who can probably get a better contract in England.
Will gets in because his father is Welsh. Tomkins , from a nameless club, gets in because one of his grandmothers was Welsh. Not quite as bad as Brett Simpkinson who was selected because of his Welsh grandmother without anyone checking until someone did and it was not true.
The reality is than Will is one of 6 second rows in the Wales squad. I suspect he might have an outing against Italy and that might be it - but he will have had an opportunity. YY also has hard competition. 6 back-rowers in the squad plus James Davies who is not included.
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Interesting, good on him! and yet no YY.
According to Welsh fans, debutants are fine, but you must have the intention of moving to Wales first.
E.g. Webb hasn't been selected for ages but he now has the intention of going to Ospreys now he can be picked again.
Or Rowlands hasn't played any games so gets an opportunity. If he gets capped he has to have intention of moving back to Wales before he's capped again.
By that Logic YY isn't going back to Wales?
And Raggs, that's only if Rowlands is considered the future and is serious contender for starting lock and certain of caps.
So does this means Tomkins and Rowlands are heading to Wales at the end of the season?? Or does that depend on whether they earn a cap and then have to decide.
Surely they won't have been selected if they haven't given an indication that they would be willing to move, else its a waste of time Pivac selecting them?
Also.. does that mean Rowlands was never EQP anyway or will that all change if he earns a cap?
Good grief.. talk about complicated
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Interesting, good on him! and yet no YY.
According to Welsh fans, debutants are fine, but you must have the intention of moving to Wales first.
E.g. Webb hasn't been selected for ages but he now has the intention of going to Ospreys now he can be picked again.
Or Rowlands hasn't played any games so gets an opportunity. If he gets capped he has to have intention of moving back to Wales before he's capped again.
By that Logic YY isn't going back to Wales?
And Raggs, that's only if Rowlands is considered the future and is serious contender for starting lock and certain of caps.
So does this means Tomkins and Rowlands are heading to Wales at the end of the season?? Or does that depend on whether they earn a cap and then have to decide.
Surely they won't have been selected if they haven't given an indication that they would be willing to move, else its a waste of time Pivac selecting them?
Also.. does that mean Rowlands was never EQP anyway or will that all change if he earns a cap?
Good grief.. talk about complicated
I’ll try answer the Qs providing Gatland’s Law is still in place:
1. If they are capped, Tomkins and Rowlands will have to move to a welsh region at the end of their current contract if they still desire to be selected for Wales.
2. I think they select first and then decide on movements later- it’s an incentive to get players to move to Wales.
3. Will will remain EQP until he gets a cap for Wales as he technically could still play for England. Whether he could remain as EQP or academy graduate in terms of the cap, I don’t know- but it shouldn’t be Wasps fault for England not picking him.
All of this could be irrelevant if they decide to scrap Gatland’s Law, especially since Owen Williams is back in the squad and he doesn’t qualify. He may however be moving back to Wales at the end of the season and will therefore qualify.
Tried to make it less complicated but I feel like I might have left even more questions rather than answers!
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AKWasp summarised it perfectly.
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If Gatland's law is still in place then Pivac is really stretching the boundaries of interpretation.
The PRL clubs and Toulon are under no obligation to release their employees outside of the international window though.
PRL clubs only release their players for training camps etc because of the EPS agreement between PRL and the RFU.
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If Gatland's law is still in place then Pivac is really stretching the boundaries of interpretation.
The PRL clubs and Toulon are under no obligation to release their employees outside of the international window though.
PRL clubs only release their players for training camps etc because of the EPS agreement between PRL and the RFU.
Gatlands law allowed for new players outside of Wales to be picked, and for those on the same contract to be continued to be picked. That's how Francis kept getting to play.
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Congrats to Will on the call up. Makes the 6N period a bit trickier for Wasps now though if he isn't released back to us if and when the squad is trimmed. Had wondered if we might keep Launch through at least some of the international period given where he appeared to be in the pecking order at the WC, but if Kruis is off to Japan, then presumably that makes him now ineligible for England selection and put Joe back firmly in the frame.
On the question of eligibility, I note this from the BBC article on the Wales squad with reference to Tompkins:
"The 24-year-old was part of the England Under-20s side that won the Junior World Championships in 2014 and has also played for England Saxons."
It always used to be the case that if you played for a country's designated 2nd team (this could be the 'A' team or U20 depending on individual countries' structures) then you were then tied in and ineligible to play for another country. If Tompkins has represented England at both 'A' and U20 level, then how is he eligible to play for Wales? I'm guessing the rules have changed.
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If Gatland's law is still in place then Pivac is really stretching the boundaries of interpretation.
The PRL clubs and Toulon are under no obligation to release their employees outside of the international window though.
PRL clubs only release their players for training camps etc because of the EPS agreement between PRL and the RFU.
Gatlands law allowed for new players outside of Wales to be picked, and for those on the same contract to be continued to be picked. That's how Francis kept getting to play.
And how YY continues to be eligible.
And on the matter of release, it's my understanding that the international window does not cover the entire 6N period, only the match weekends. So Wales are obliged to release players back to clubs outside of Wales during the rest weeks in the 6N, whereas under the EPS agreement, England can retain the whole squad if they choose to.
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Congrats to Will on the call up. Makes the 6N period a bit trickier for Wasps now though if he isn't released back to us if and when the squad is trimmed. Had wondered if we might keep Launch through at least some of the international period given where he appeared to be in the pecking order at the WC, but if Kruis is off to Japan, then presumably that makes him now ineligible for England selection and put Joe back firmly in the frame.
On the question of eligibility, I note this from the BBC article on the Wales squad with reference to Tompkins:
"The 24-year-old was part of the England Under-20s side that won the Junior World Championships in 2014 and has also played for England Saxons."
It always used to be the case that if you played for a country's designated 2nd team (this could be the 'A' team or U20 depending on individual countries' structures) then you were then tied in and ineligible to play for another country. If Tompkins has represented England at both 'A' and U20 level, then how is he eligible to play for Wales? I'm guessing the rules have changed.
A teams are only binding if they play the other countries nominated A team, and SA "A" were not the nominated A team of the SA at the time.
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A teams are only binding if they play the other countries nominated A team, and SA "A" were not the nominated A team of the SA at the time.
Ah yes, that makes some sense (as much as any World Rugby eligibility rule could be expected to make at least!)
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LRZ has just extended his contract at Gloucester though. I thought players could stay at the same club, but couldn't move on to another?
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LRZ signed a new contract last week so it was just in time!
Francis extended his contract at Exeter last season (??) so doesn’t yet have to return to Wales. There are some ways around the rules - Exeter in this case - but you can’t drive a great big bus through the rules - Saracens in that case.
By the way, are they rules or laws 🤪
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If Gatland's law is still in place then Pivac is really stretching the boundaries of interpretation.
The PRL clubs and Toulon are under no obligation to release their employees outside of the international window though.
PRL clubs only release their players for training camps etc because of the EPS agreement between PRL and the RFU.
Gatlands law allowed for new players outside of Wales to be picked, and for those on the same contract to be continued to be picked. That's how Francis kept getting to play.
I'm trying to get my head around this.. so why did Josh Adams move? He could have asked for an extension on the same terms and still played for Wales without leaving Wuss
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I think the WRU ideally want them all to be playing in Wales, but with a small pool to start with they can ill afford to ignore promising, emerging, Welsh qualified players in other leagues, mostly the English Premiership. So new players can be picked, but once they begin to figure more prominently they'll be under pressure, but no obligation under Gatland's law to move to one of the Welsh sides.
Equally, they fear losing their established, big stars if they deny them the earning and trophy winning opportunities that a move to England or France would offer. Hence, 60+ caps and you've earned that opportunity.
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If Gatland's law is still in place then Pivac is really stretching the boundaries of interpretation.
The PRL clubs and Toulon are under no obligation to release their employees outside of the international window though.
PRL clubs only release their players for training camps etc because of the EPS agreement between PRL and the RFU.
Gatlands law allowed for new players outside of Wales to be picked, and for those on the same contract to be continued to be picked. That's how Francis kept getting to play.
I'm trying to get my head around this.. so why did Josh Adams move? He could have asked for an extension on the same terms and still played for Wales without leaving Wuss
Maybe he had a better offer? It can't be a new contract on the same terms, think it has to be an old contract, so something like a +1 on a 2+1 contract maybe?
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Interesting comments from Pivac on Will, link below, tried to get him to Scarlets twice in Stephen Jones recommendation.
https://twitter.com/WalesRugby/status/1217506739752292352?s=19
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Interesting comments from Pivac on Will, link below, tried to get him to Scarlets twice in Stephen Jones recommendation.
https://twitter.com/WalesRugby/status/1217506739752292352?s=19
You mean wasps kept hold of a player they wanted to keep?
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Congratulations to Will Rowlands. His selection is well deserved if you ask me.
This experience will only develop his experience and all round game. The downside is his availability during the 6N will be limited and he just might be tempted to move to Wales. Wayne Pivac has mentioned he tried, on two occasions, to sign him for Scarlets.
Many times he was been excellent and won MoM awards but some Waspies still don’t think he is that good. Lol.
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Lovely news for Will.
Pleased for him.
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Great stuff to see Will recognised but I had no idea he was eligible for Wales!
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Very good news for Will - will also help improve the player training with the Wales squad
Just looking at the Wales squad - if they can secure ball.....they have the backs in terms of skill and pace to win any 6Ns game. The more strong teams the better for the 6N
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Towards the end of this it seems to suggest this is also a deliberate ploy to get players to come back to Wales when their contracts end:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/inside-story-behind-wales-six-17574453
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"Over the next 12, 24 or 36 months, you’re going to see more players who represent Wales slowly drifting back to Wales. That can only be good for the clubs and Wales"
Interesting statement statement to make. How can players who have never played or represented Wales in any age group come back to Wales...
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"Over the next 12, 24 or 36 months, you’re going to see more players who represent Wales slowly drifting back to Wales. That can only be good for the clubs and Wales"
Interesting statement statement to make. How can players who have never played or represented Wales in any age group come back to Wales...
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Maybe but there are only so many positions (15) and players will need to see finances in Wales rise to be happy on the bench.
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Interestingly, a Wales Online article describes Thomas Young as extremely unlucky not to be selected - and suggests that this will mean he will stay in England with Wasps rather than come back to Wales for less money and a chance at selection
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Bobby Bridge on Will Rowlands.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/will-rowlands-wales-rugby-wasps-17577608 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/will-rowlands-wales-rugby-wasps-17577608)
I wonder if it was quite as much as a surprise to Dai as it seems to have been to everyone else? Tipped Pivac off about Will's Welsh dad perhaps?
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Bobby Bridge on Will Rowlands.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/will-rowlands-wales-rugby-wasps-17577608 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/will-rowlands-wales-rugby-wasps-17577608)
I wonder if it was quite as much as a surprise to Dai as it seems to have been to everyone else? Tipped Pivac off about Will's Welsh dad perhaps?
It was Stephen Jones when he was with us that tipped him off.