Post by: Raggs on January 01, 2020, 02:19:20 PM
Bristol apparently interested in Cruse.
On first pass, I dislike the idea of losing Cruse, but looking at it with the view of Taylor, Oghre, Johnson and Barbeary, it's perhaps not unreasonable to lose a hooker (it looks almost inevitable), and whilst I do like Cruse a lot, he's probably the one I'd rather lose...
Post by: HDAWG on January 01, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 01, 2020, 03:19:35 PM
I'll add another, not rumour but uncertainty, Thomas Young has not Re-signed yet.
Despite Dad being Dai, might have been offered a lower value contract. Budget is always tight, YY has little chance now of getting to play for Wales, and thus little chance of being offered a regional contract, and now has a poor (recent) injury record. Ca't see him attracting (big) money offers from other teams.
Post by: Peej on January 01, 2020, 04:23:15 PM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 01, 2020, 07:10:13 PM
Post by: Neils on January 01, 2020, 07:53:08 PM
It is a strange feeling not expecting any announcements. I am sure some will occur especially re-signing.
Post by: Rory87 on January 01, 2020, 09:21:45 PM
Can’t see it personally with Carr, Vianu, Willis in the ranks. However depends if Carr shifts more to 6/7. Wouldn’t be disappointed with the signing but definitely feel there other areas I’d like us to spend that salary allocation!
Post by: MarleyWasp on January 01, 2020, 10:10:53 PM
Post by: welsh wasp on January 01, 2020, 10:27:04 PM
Post by: Jac A on January 01, 2020, 11:16:24 PM
For us on the other hand, it could almost be a swap for Thomas Young if Thomas wants to go to Wales to try to get some international game time. I'd be happy with a backrow of Willis, Carr and Moriarty (+ Shields and Valianu). That said, I love Thomas Young as a player and would much rather he stayed.
Post by: Rory87 on January 02, 2020, 07:20:22 AM
I think a lot will depend on Thomas Young’s next steps in regards to backrow recruitment... if he stays then I think we’re well stocked and can focus on other areas. If he does move to Wales to better his international chances then I think we need to replace to ensure we maintain a high level of depth that we’ve always had in the backrow.
Not sure Young for Moriarty is a like for like swap in terms of position (Moriarty definitely an 8 rather than 7) unless we see Carr’s long term future on the flank. Don’t want to hinder Tom Willis’ chances too. So think it needs to be a flanker rather than a moriarty type 8.
Post by: InBetweenWasp on January 02, 2020, 08:31:28 AM
Post by: HDAWG on January 02, 2020, 08:40:30 AM
Another concern is what if Simon McIntyre retires due to concussion? Who would we line up?
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 02, 2020, 08:50:33 AM
... and figuring out 12 for us ...
I am hoping that, rather than big name, expensive imports, we remain focused on our Academy. I think that we may well see Will Simmonds come up this year, and probably Barbeary (if not this next year, then certainly the year after for Alfie). Who else this year? Maybe Ben Onyeama-Christie at tighthead and Will Wilson.
There are many others in the Academy, obviously young, who will soon deserve that first team shirt.
Post by: DGP Wasp on January 02, 2020, 08:52:41 AM
Would be sad to see Cruse go, but there's logic to that one with the emergence of Oghre plus Barbeary coming through.
Post by: AKWasp on January 02, 2020, 11:57:56 AM
Can’t say I knew much about him but after watching a montage on YouTube I can confirm he will be the greatest centre to ever play for the club and will single handedly win us the prem
In all seriousness looks like he can play 12/13, crash ball type 12 but is quite small and has a decent step and turn of pace hence the capability of playing 13. Really impressed me with his eye for a running line and tackles above his size, small centre of mass also means he jackals well.
Scotland international who is on the edge of selection 27yo so looks like a very decent player to be linked with- Lovobalavu type player
Post by: Neils on January 02, 2020, 12:02:31 PM
Post by: welsh wasp on January 02, 2020, 12:14:40 PM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 02, 2020, 12:19:36 PM
Post by: AKWasp on January 02, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
Post by: JonnyD on January 02, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 02, 2020, 02:02:47 PM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 02, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Let's for a moment imagine that we had Umaga at 10, with Grigg and Loz competing for the 12 shirt, with JdJ and Fekitoa competing for 13.
I'd pay to watch that.
Post by: matelot22 on January 02, 2020, 02:31:36 PM
I'd be very happy with a 12 who runs hard, has some pace, a good step, and is solid in defence. Right now we don't have either a hard runner, or a truly creative second distributor.
Let's for a moment imagine that we had Umaga at 10, with Grigg and Loz competing for the 12 shirt, with JdJ and Fekitoa competing for 13.
I'd pay to watch that.
Very much agree. It would also allow us to play in a couple of different ways from the off or change the game plan during the course of a game if we need to chase or defend a lead.
Post by: JonnyD on January 02, 2020, 03:00:49 PM
I'd be very happy with a 12 who runs hard, has some pace, a good step, and is solid in defence. Right now we don't have either a hard runner, or a truly creative second distributor.
Let's for a moment imagine that we had Umaga at 10, with Grigg and Loz competing for the 12 shirt, with JdJ and Fekitoa competing for 13.
I'd pay to watch that.
Very much agree. It would also allow us to play in a couple of different ways from the off or change the game plan during the course of a game if we need to chase or defend a lead.
Totally agree, I’m a massive fan of the Exeter model having Devoto there for creativity (and power) and then bringing on Sam Hill for a slightly more blunt and powerful approach.
Saying that the change of player requires a very different mind set in attack from the back line and a set of systems that need to be in play for the change of player to create a change of game plan. Exeter are undoubtedly smart enough to cater for the change and change the game plan mid match, I’m not sure we even know what our plan A is just yet, but I’m definitely not saying it won’t come.
(Also wondering why Ross Neal wasn’t used as a battering ram at times at 12 if he couldn’t get a game at 13. Far younger than Booj, bigger and quicker but I guess we’ll never know)
Post by: Rory87 on January 02, 2020, 05:56:20 PM
I’m desperately trying to find the interview where Dai states that there are hardly any contracts up for renewal this summer so we will be retaining the majority of the squad anyway. Hoping someone who also remembers this interview will back me up on this.
With squad consistency through to next season, I’d like us to make some very select and savvy signings to compliment what we have and enhance in specific ways, rather than just signing names or SH imports.
Post by: AKWasp on January 02, 2020, 06:02:25 PM
Dai’s biggest gripes over the past few seasons has been that squad turnover was too high. With that being solved then we should be excited
Post by: Shugs on January 02, 2020, 06:21:42 PM
Post by: AKWasp on January 02, 2020, 06:43:16 PM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 02, 2020, 09:08:27 PM
Is Simmonds from the academy a 12 because I’ve thought he looks quite exciting from what I’ve seen of him so far
Yes.
Post by: AKWasp on January 02, 2020, 09:22:04 PM
FantasticIs Simmonds from the academy a 12 because I’ve thought he looks quite exciting from what I’ve seen of him so far
Yes.
Can guarantee he is going to be the best 12 ever and we’ll never ever have to sign an inside centre ever again.
Looks a good player and maybe we don’t need a huge revolution at 12 if it means Simmonds gets some first xv rugby
Post by: backdoc on January 02, 2020, 09:35:47 PM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 02, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Post by: BG on January 03, 2020, 10:46:03 AM
As is Monye at 9
Didn't we see him come on as sub at Warwick last year (wasn't he 16 or 17 yrs old playing for the U18's?). His passing at that point was a little weak but I'm guessing a year on he's developed physically.
I think Grigg would be a good signing. As others have said I'm a fan of having 2 different styles of players in each position. If plan A isn't working there's no point in bring a "like for like" player onto the pitch to change the game (Lasicke at Quins).
So a Grigg JdJ combo or a Gopps/Booj Fekitoa combo.
Grigg seems to have fallen off the Scotland radar so it make sense for him to try pastures new
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 03, 2020, 11:04:57 AM
As is Monye at 9Didn't we see him come on as sub at Warwick last year (wasn't he 16 or 17 yrs old playing for the U18's?). His passing at that point was a little weak but I'm guessing a year on he's developed physically.
Yup. He has grown a lot taller, and he has improved a lot as well. Such is the life of just a few months in the life of a teenager. They grow faster than well fed and watered weeds.
Post by: HDAWG on January 03, 2020, 11:17:31 AM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 03, 2020, 11:37:00 AM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 03, 2020, 11:48:16 AM
We're saying Grigg would be a 12, but looking him up it appears he's outside centre/13. So is he replacing Juan De Jongh/Fekitoa? Or would we still use him as 12?
I would prefer we simply didn't bring in many players, like Grigg. I don't think we will need many. As Dai said, few have contracts that end this year, and I would bet that he has already got most 'leavers' penciled in with Academy replacements.
As I have said in other threads, players fall in to a number groups:
1. (Most of our squad) No contract renewal due.
2. Contract is ending, and have been told they will not be offered a new one. We never say who they are until after January and only then when the player has a confirmed destination, or announces retirement at the season end. These players will have been identified very early (September or October) and by now a replacement lined up. We never announce that replacement until the leaver has announced where they are going, and if it is an Academy player coming up, that would be left to the season end.
3. Contract is ending and have been offered an extension or new contract. We have seen some accept already. Others won't be happy with the offer (and will have said so to Dai). Dai will hope to retain them, but be planning how to replace them. Again, Academy players may be penciled in just in case. As a last resort, Dai may have to see what is available externally. These are the players we here rumors about. Like Cruse and Grigg. Cruse may have been made an offer, decided it wan't enough, and has looked around, and Bristol may have started talking to him. Same with Grigg. We DO need centres, but what type and how many, and could Academy prospects suffice?
4. Certain leavers. They are going. Like Wade, Neal, Beale Le Roux and Cips. And the forced retirements, like Rieder and Jones. And probably MacIntyre, sadly.
I think Dai is very limited on budget. And he realises that we now have an Academy producing players good enough for the shirt, who know the Wasps way. Buying in players is expensive and always has a bedding in period, and sometimes they never bed in.
It would not surprise me if we bought in no players at all.
Post by: Chunky24 on January 03, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Hooker to Bristol?
The Rugby Paper, in a recent article, speculated that Wasps hooker Tom Cruse, who was so instrumental in creating the match winning try against Bristol Bears last week, could be heading to Ashton Gate next season.
Cruse has been with the club since joining from London Irish in 2016. He has gone on to make 74 appearances for the Black and Golds scoring 11 tries - including two this season.
With Tommy Taylor, Ashley Johnson and Gaby Oghre among the senior options and Alfie Barbeary the next cab off the rank, some people are suggesting it will be Cruse who makes way this summer.
But CoventryLive’s understanding is that Cruse is going nowhere. He signed a new deal as recently as March last year which will likely bind him to the club until, at least, the end of the 2020/21 season.
If Barbeary is promoted from the Academy into the senior set-up, it would appear Wasps will be, perhaps, too heavily stocked in the hooker department, but it will not be Cruse who leaves to balance things out.
Post by: HDAWG on January 03, 2020, 12:00:44 PM
I agree I expect Wilson to be promoted to replace Reider, for example. And maybe Cameron Anderson is round the corner to be promoted to centres. I'd also prefer Spink to get some game time.
Simultaneously I'd like to sign experience if our experience is leaving. If Gopperth is leaving and we sign Loz, our young centres can learn from them. Same can be said if we sign Grigg.
Chunky,
So if it's not cruse..... Who would leave? It's a difficult one.
Post by: Chunky24 on January 03, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
Chunky,
So if it's not cruse..... Who would leave? It's a difficult one.
Not sure any of them need to leave as I wouldn't include Ashley in the list of hookers anymore, except in an emergency, as he hasn't featured there very much. I don't think it's unreasonable to have TT, Cruse, Ogrhe and Barbeary as hooking options with Ashley as mainly a back row option so in effect Barbeary replaces Rieder?
Post by: Raggs on January 03, 2020, 12:17:30 PM
AJ to backrow again, leaves Cruse, Taylor, Oghre and Barbeary, which isn't ridiculous. Especially if Barbeary is on loan.
Post by: HDAWG on January 03, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
Speaking to a Glasgow fan who described Grigg as "a beloved player and our most consistent pick at 13 for 3 seasons straight". Still curious we're signing him at 12.
Perhaps we'd sign him as Gopperth replacement and Loz for Sopoaga replacement? Then they'd compete against eachother and Sam Spink for 12 shirt. Purely speculation here.
Post by: baldpaul101 on January 03, 2020, 01:24:39 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 03, 2020, 01:36:52 PM
Agreed.
Post by: Stang on January 03, 2020, 01:46:33 PM
(Bloody pleased he’s going well)
Hopefully Lima gets a good offer to play somewhere he’ll be happy and can pick up his old form (as long as he’s not against us).
Post by: RBB on January 03, 2020, 02:13:00 PM
Re Sopoaga. I'm assuming Wasps will not be looking to take up the 3rd year option? (I've wished the bloke the best since he's started but he just isn't performing as well as he needs to to be the 1st choice 10 every week). So given that I wonder if we'll see him play again this season? Dai has form for not picking people who he knows are leaving unless their form has been really good....Not always, he kept picking ED when available, who we all knew was leaving, ED's form and attitude (sulking and remonstrating with officials) were really poor, however he kept his place. I am not convinced Sopoaga is off but agree that Jacob is above him at the moment in terms of form and fit with the broader team.
Post by: baldpaul101 on January 03, 2020, 02:16:30 PM
Quote
I am not convinced Sopoaga is off
I meant that he wouldn't be playing for wasps next season. Do you think Wasps will want to sign him up for another season?
You are correct re ED, but I think wasps were short of backs at that point weren't they?
Post by: RBB on January 03, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
I honestly don't know if there is an option for an extension or not, I have seen both views offered. I think Sopoaga wants to stay but it may be out of his hands, I still think Searle is a long way off where he was prior to his leg break last season and may turn out to be another failed project. So we will need more depth in cover at 10, Umaga is rightly the first pick and IF Sopoaga leaves then we have to think about another quality 10 now. Dai I am sure, is considering that. Lozowski re-joining would help but again that IMO is press supposition based on the fact the EAs will have to jettison players and he is a Wasps man.QuoteI am not convinced Sopoaga is off
I meant that he wouldn't be playing for wasps next season. Do you think Wasps will want to sign him up for another season?
You are correct re ED, but I think wasps were short of backs at that point weren't they?
I am not sure we were short of backs when ED was playing towards the end of last season, I think Dai elected to play him regardless as he felt ED's earlier form would be recaptured and he would want to go out head held high, once his future was finalised. Sadly it wasn't recaptured and ED was little more than an ornament, he made falling off tackles into an art form. IMO protecting himself against knocks as he made his preparations to join the EAs.
Post by: HDAWG on January 03, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
Excellent description of the Loz situation. I need to remember how skeptical that rumour (an imaginative creative rumour at that) is. As much as I wish it were true!
Post by: baldpaul101 on January 03, 2020, 04:09:37 PM
I agree re Searle and with Jimmy not getting any younger maybe signing Sopps for a third season might make sense. But I would have thought having a back up 10 on All Blacks starter money might be an extravagance Wasps can't afford. Add in the mental affect of an All Blacks 10 being relegated to the bench by a youngster just out of the academy and his form may plummet further.
we will just have to wait & see what happens.
re Daly, I certainly remember him not playing at anywhere near his best, but I also don't think he played well for England in that period so I wouldn't necessarily blame him, but you are correct that he still got picked regardless. and thinking about it so did Simpson, Cipps, Thompson, JCW.... maybe I'm talking nonsense then :)
Post by: Neils on January 03, 2020, 04:38:26 PM
Post by: RBB on January 03, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Post by: AKWasp on January 03, 2020, 07:01:26 PM
I had better start a rumour then ;D, does anyone have Fissler's number?
Always wondered if it were possible that we could get a rumour going from this thread and try and get it reported in the media/trp
RIL should be fairly easy to capture with enough twitter noise and from there wouldn’t be surprised if people pick it up as they aren’t too bad with rumours most the time
Post by: Neils on January 04, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 04, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Knew I wasn't going mental.
Post by: Peej on January 04, 2020, 07:51:31 PM
Post by: Stang on January 04, 2020, 10:26:31 PM
Spink is quality in the centres, I think he's the pick of the young bunch in that position
Is he worth a go at 12 now or is it a bit soon for him?
I’d be interested to see how some of our internal options go in Europe while the pressure is off. Not wanting to make wholesale changes as we have to honour the competition, but we can experiment a little bit.
Post by: Neils on January 05, 2020, 11:55:58 AM
Post by: Peej on January 05, 2020, 07:28:32 PM
Spink is quality in the centres, I think he's the pick of the young bunch in that position
Is he worth a go at 12 now or is it a bit soon for him?
I’d be interested to see how some of our internal options go in Europe while the pressure is off. Not wanting to make wholesale changes as we have to honour the competition, but we can experiment a little bit.
He played Prem cup and did well
Post by: Heathen on January 05, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
IMO protecting himself against knocks as he made his preparations to join the EAs.
More likely wanting to avoid injury before the RWC.
Post by: Buttoi on January 06, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 06, 2020, 09:41:56 AM
Post by: SilverShire on January 06, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Shields to saints according to RugbyInsideLine. RIL is a saints fan so could be some truth in this. I would happily lose shields for someone with more grunt and nasty like moriarty.
Not sure how I feel about this. Shields, IMO, brings a lot of experience and leadership and you can see that on the pitch. As much as I like Robson and Young I don't think they have the same amount of leadership, as such I was predicting that Shields was going to be captain next season
Post by: InBetweenWasp on January 06, 2020, 09:43:06 AM
However, we play best when we have YY and Willis at 7 and 6. Shields isn’t an 8, so it’s tricky to see where he fits in. Where we have a more physical, potentially tighter game in prospect I’d potentially say we shift Willis to 7 and put Shields to 6 (aka a Plan B which we typically don’t tend to have) with YY on the bench to cover Back Row.
But, would ultimately prefer we play to our strengths and have a couple of disruptive, fetchers on the pitch causing havoc at the breakdown like yesterday.
Post by: BrackenandMacken on January 06, 2020, 10:36:10 AM
Is he worth the money, given how scarce it seems to be currently, I'm not sure.
Post by: MarleyWasp on January 06, 2020, 10:38:29 AM
Post by: Neils on January 06, 2020, 11:04:36 AM
Given the amount Brad is on, would we rather let him go and use the money to sign Jack and Tom Willis to long term deals or risk one of the Willis's going elsewhere?
Probably!
Post by: BG on January 06, 2020, 11:20:58 AM
He seems like a decent bloke but he simply hasn't played enough for Wasps but presumably must be on a decent wage.
He just needs a bit more game time. I can't see him being in the EPS for this year so hopefully he can play in the euro games coming up and the ones taking place during the 6n's.
I wonder if his contract is up for renewal?
Post by: wasps on January 06, 2020, 11:21:21 AM
Seriously though, this is where we need to build our identity.
Our real strength and point of difference at the moment is our breakdown work - largely through Jack and Young.
Jack is truly incredible when you consider that he steals more ball than anyone I've seen in the premiership since George Smith, but is also a massively solid defender and tackler.
He could easily start at 6 or 7 for any team.
I really like the idea of Brad Shields, but ultimately haven't seen enough to know if he's gonna work out for us.
He feels like he should be the glue that holds our forwards together.... But I don't know who to drop to accommodate him.
The other option is that he could play 2nd row, but I doubt he wants that, and secondly I'm not sure he's as capable there as our other options.
With injuries and international call ups, there's plenty of opportunity for everyone, however, that's not the debate.
The debate is what our approach and back row identity should be.
Do we want to be more traditional, or do we want to really disrupt with breakdown/ turnover specialists.
I feel that we're missing Brad Shields' skillset in the team, but not necessarily missing it in the back row
Post by: Raggs on January 06, 2020, 11:28:24 AM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 06, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Given the amount Brad is on, would we rather let him go and use the money to sign Jack and Tom Willis to long term deals or risk one of the Willis's going elsewhere?Are they exclusive then...not sure they are. Shields is a good versatile player, i'd rather have him than not. He's been injured but then so has most of our back row except Carr and Smash.
Is he worth the 350k he's on..i'm not sure but then again its not my money so prob not for me to worry about.
Moriarty? - Absolutely no thanks.
Post by: Rory87 on January 06, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
I think Brad would be a great shout for Captain next season. In the absence of Launchbury, he's exactly the on field leader we've been craving. Yes YY and Willis made a devastating partnership, but can't play every game together. Just look at Bath, it's taken them 2 years to get their first choice backrow playing together due to injuries. So I don't want to dismiss Brad based just on one partnership. We're a better squad with Brad in it than out of it so I would say he's worth retaining
If we lost Brad I'd be actually pretty gutted.
Post by: Daeg on January 06, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
Post by: Sting on January 06, 2020, 03:21:33 PM
Would be really disappointed to lose Brad. I'm not sure how much he'll be included in the EPS moving forward with the emergences of Ludlam, Willis and Ben Earl (getting predictably hyped up). So Brad could potentially be available a lot more than assumed when we first signed him
I think Brad would be a great shout for Captain next season. In the absence of Launchbury, he's exactly the on field leader we've been craving. Yes YY and Willis made a devastating partnership, but can't play every game together. Just look at Bath, it's taken them 2 years to get their first choice backrow playing together due to injuries. So I don't want to dismiss Brad based just on one partnership. We're a better squad with Brad in it than out of it so I would say he's worth retaining
If we lost Brad I'd be actually pretty gutted.
+1
Good captain material from what I have seen on him. Some have suggested Willis. Willis is excellent player and is best to focus on that. Also Captain needs to be both repected AND liked by the other players.
Post by: HDAWG on January 06, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
A significant loss but again more funds to be spent more wisely.
I can see him going to Northampton, he and Boyd have a good working relationship...
Post by: RBB on January 06, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
There is some Twitter supposition than some of the first team registered players who haven't played so far this season will be released, Rhodes and Figallo mentioned, of course it may be supposition based on the fact they have to allegedly trim the wage bill mid season, based on the returning CEO's comments?
Post by: Steve from Cov on January 06, 2020, 05:49:26 PM
+1.Would be really disappointed to lose Brad. I'm not sure how much he'll be included in the EPS moving forward with the emergences of Ludlam, Willis and Ben Earl (getting predictably hyped up). So Brad could potentially be available a lot more than assumed when we first signed him
I think Brad would be a great shout for Captain next season. In the absence of Launchbury, he's exactly the on field leader we've been craving. Yes YY and Willis made a devastating partnership, but can't play every game together. Just look at Bath, it's taken them 2 years to get their first choice backrow playing together due to injuries. So I don't want to dismiss Brad based just on one partnership. We're a better squad with Brad in it than out of it so I would say he's worth retaining
If we lost Brad I'd be actually pretty gutted.
+1
Good captain material from what I have seen on him. Some have suggested Willis. Willis is excellent player and is best to focus on that. Also Captain needs to be both repected AND liked by the other players.
We need to retain as many high quality back row operators as possible.
Jack’s playing style means he is likely to get injured again very soon so we need others to step in when necessary. Back row players are best rotated to allow for some recovery time.
Post by: Shugs on January 06, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 06, 2020, 08:20:29 PM
And Injury prone. Which-if we want someone to be available when Jack's injured- isn't a wise substitute.
Post by: Shugs on January 06, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
We should keep good players, but Shields is not worth the money. He's very expensive for what he actually is. Good player but very expensive.Unfortunately Willis is very injury prone too. That's why we need both.
And Injury prone. Which-if we want someone to be available when Jack's injured- isn't a wise substitute.
Post by: westwaleswasp on January 07, 2020, 02:31:32 AM
Willis
Carr
Willis
Ash
Vialanu
Shields.
Healthy roster isn't it? On value terms whatever we pay Young and Willis it is not enough.
Question is what do we have on the rank ready to step up and be all signed up, will Young be with us next year? What are the relative salaries? Without that info I would find it hard to judge Shields.
I would say he has done well for us, but is not 'fantastic' thus far. It is a strong word. That adjective applies to Willis snr, Young, maybe Carr, but I can't see Brad as fantastic just yet. Valuable, yes.
I guess the other question is what do we do with the money saved? Invest at lock, lh, 12?
Too many variables involved for my liking. I guess we will have to see what transpires....
Post by: Neils on January 07, 2020, 07:47:35 AM
Yes because none of us knows the relative wages or contract positions (except Dai saying that YY is out at the end of this season).
Post by: Old Geezer on January 07, 2020, 09:13:29 AM
Post by: Rory87 on January 07, 2020, 10:24:46 AM
If we get a player who we deem is worthy of that salary, who are the realistic proposals and what guarantees do we have that they will be available more often and perform better? That's a genuine question not a arsy response to anyone!
If we opt to go for a lesser calibre player and reallocate the salary to other parts of the squad, what happens when Willis and/or Young get called up internationally or get injured?... suddenly our backrow looks a lot different in terms of 'calibre'.
As someone mentioned above the likelihood but rather the desire to have both Willis and Young playing at the same time needs to be considered. They offer us something incredible, but I agree that it would be better to manage their game time and not burn them out together. For that you to rotate them with each other on occasion and for that we need a Shields type player.
On paper the backrow looks healthy and with a lot of depth meaning perhaps on the face of it we don't need Shields.... but when you factor in the reality of injury, player rotation throughout the season, international call-ups, different game plans... you need more than just your starting lineup and a bench player. For that reason, I think we need Shields to stay.
Post by: matelot22 on January 07, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Post by: Rory87 on January 07, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
I would be very happy to secure Brad for an extended contract and name him as captain next season. I think Saints would be gaining a really good signing if they manage to get him.
Given this is a Rumours Thread and not a Brad Shields Thread... are there any other rumours knocking about to divert conversation?
Post by: backdoc on January 07, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
It requires trust between the players and that comes with game time.
We have had a high turnover of players which has made this a weakness, and now that we have an Academy producing players, leadership/followership [if there is such a word which I doubt] will - er - hopefully follow.
Post by: matelot22 on January 07, 2020, 11:07:21 AM
IMO Leadership is not simply about identifying a hero to lead from the front.
It requires trust between the players and that comes with game time.
We have had a high turnover of players which has made this a weakness, and now that we have an Academy producing players, leadership/followership [if there is such a word which I doubt] will - er - hopefully follow.
I agree to some extent, but I'm not really talking about one leader in a LBND mould. Those kind of people are rare and truly exceptional, after 28 years in the forces I have only come across a few of those. I'm looking more at a leadership group, which I think Brad can have an important role in. He's experienced in playing terms and captaincy, so with Joe, Gopps and the other players we know fit with the leadership tag, I think he is an important player. Many have said Willis will be captain one day, I think he probably will, but at the moment I don't see him being part of the senior leader group.
Post by: mike909 on January 07, 2020, 11:19:53 AM
Re Shields - experienced SR Capt with a good 'Canes team that has the potential to contribute to a leadership team and be a key leader.
However well I think that Carr, Willis or Young play as individuals, they haven't got that back ground and tbh, just need to be allowed to get on with playing within a team and leadership and coaching structure that allows them to use their talents to the advantage of the team and to develop at players.
A leadership group from a player POV is important, but it can only IMO, have a material effect, if the players and the coaching/DoR team are on the same page and are committed to how to play (most of the time!) Whilst Brad could be a really good Captain and leadership resource - we will need to start looking less like talented individuals and more like a team group that understands and buys into the plan/plans
Post by: matelot22 on January 07, 2020, 11:46:42 AM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 07, 2020, 01:45:45 PM
Post by: Neils on January 07, 2020, 02:08:35 PM
Anyone else think that Ben Morris could be considered for the back row ranks if this move transpired. I don't recall him doing much wrong in his opportunities. Also seems robust and can also cover 2nd row at a push (like Brad). I dont recall what's up with T Willis, reminder anyone? thx
Agree with this. Ben has been a good player so far for us. Last season he was flung into the back row mix and I did not see him let us down.
Post by: HDAWG on January 07, 2020, 02:18:57 PM
Post by: Raggs on January 07, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
I don't Think Tom Willis is injured, reckon he's just not being overplayed. Reckon he'll have a game or 2 in Europe.
I'd agree with this. He was OK in previous games, but not better than the others. More gametime in Europe will help his development. He hasn't hit the league with as much of a bang as his brother did, but he's not let anyone down, and I'd not be too upset to his name on the teamlist. Next season I'd hope to see more of him.
Post by: MarleyWasp on January 08, 2020, 07:24:28 AM
https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1214808949578502146?s=19
Post by: HDAWG on January 08, 2020, 07:46:49 AM
Post by: Rory87 on January 08, 2020, 07:49:47 AM
Without wishing to derail this thread... what's the latest with Bassett? Will we be in the market for a replacement in the summer or is he injured? I know Dai mentioned resting him earlier in the season due to being overplayed last season, but would have expected to have seen something of him.
Post by: BG on January 08, 2020, 12:08:43 PM
Anyone else think that Ben Morris could be considered for the back row ranks if this move transpired. I don't recall him doing much wrong in his opportunities. Also seems robust and can also cover 2nd row at a push (like Brad). I dont recall what's up with T Willis, reminder anyone? thx
Given what we have in the backrow I wouldn't be too disappointed to see Shields go.
I wonder if he's feeling slightly miffed after being lured by the opportunity to play for England and potentially in the WC and then jettisoned and then picking up injury after injury.
T Willis took a massive hit on his leg/knee in the Edinburgh game so he may still be feeling the effects from that.
Morris has been playing 2nd row in the A team to help out.
If Dai is juggling money then I'd prefer him to keep Tibo who has been a revelation.
Post by: Rossm on January 08, 2020, 12:10:46 PM
Yes indeed. Isn't he a very handy 6 if needed?
Post by: wasps on January 08, 2020, 12:14:03 PM
If Dai is juggling money then I'd prefer him to keep Tibo who has been a revelation.
Yes indeed. Isn't he a very handy 6 if needed?
or a backup 10
Post by: Neils on January 08, 2020, 12:44:41 PM
Anyone else think that Ben Morris could be considered for the back row ranks if this move transpired. I don't recall him doing much wrong in his opportunities. Also seems robust and can also cover 2nd row at a push (like Brad). I dont recall what's up with T Willis, reminder anyone? thx
Given what we have in the backrow I wouldn't be too disappointed to see Shields go.
I wonder if he's feeling slightly miffed after being lured by the opportunity to play for England and potentially in the WC and then jettisoned and then picking up injury after injury.
T Willis took a massive hit on his leg/knee in the Edinburgh game so he may still be feeling the effects from that.
Morris has been playing 2nd row in the A team to help out.
If Dai is juggling money then I'd prefer him to keep Tibo who has been a revelation.
Yes - Tibo one of current favourite players.
Post by: mike909 on January 08, 2020, 01:38:09 PM
Yep - we have excellent individuals - but an issue at present and looking at the squad going forwards isn't going to be about individuals for me. It will be about leadership and direction and taking what is agreed on the training pitch on to the pitch and delivering the plan. Alongside having the confidence to change tack if indicated
Brad has a vg track record of leadership for both Wellington in a very trying period and for the Hurricanes was a leading player and finally Capt making over 100 appearances in a period they improved lots
Now - it might just be me.....but I'd want a player of that pedigree and level of performance and record of responsibility playing for us and being a focal point for the less experienced if talented players we have. We don't seem to have that leadership at present. I was probably not alone in expecting Robson to be doing better in that role, perhaps ust needs to get back to being a 9, and Launch needs some support.
If we lose him - whoever gets him are a lucky team.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 08, 2020, 03:03:17 PM
Alex Lozowski, who is out of contract this summer, was adamant that he would not be leaving the club before the end of the season. “No way — that is not going to happen,” the 26-year-old back said, indicating his situation would become clearer in the coming weeks. “I’m contracted until the end of the season at least. I have to put my best foot forward and show why I deserve to be given a contract, whether it’s here or wherever.”
Believe Bath are interested in a 12 and 13 with some contacts ending this season...Loz will stay at Sarries anyway.
Post by: baldpaul101 on January 08, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
I would have thought that since Brad has been at Wasps, both Willis & Young will have hardly played, due to injury!. I get that Willis & Young are a great pairing, but their injury record is pretty dire and I would expect Dai to be looking to keep as many top quality players as possible. Its no use having only 2 great flankers, wasps need at least 4, better still, 6 top quality back row to compete over the season.
I might also suggest that Brad may not be on the stratospheric wages we may think. Bear in mind he came to the Prem so he could play for England, thats been his target, so he may have accepted a lower offer because it was in his interests to do so. (i'm not suggesting he's on a low wage, but I don't think he'd be up there with Hughes & Piatau at Bristol, for example)
Post by: matelot22 on January 08, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
Believe Bath are interested in a 12 and 13 with some contacts ending this season...Loz will stay at Sarries anyway.
I'm just thinking aloud here, and it's total conjecture, but what if.........
1. You're a Sarries player, but you weren't part of the great house give away bonanza, and feeling a little bitter
2. You're a fringe international, but not getting the game time you need to really stake a claim for international call up
3. Your squad is in the spotlight, cuts may have to be made, provoking a feeling of uncertainty around your future employment
4. There have been lots of hints about more yet to come out in the wash on the SC situation, would it be better to jump ship if the chance arose?
Probably all bollocks I know, but maybe if just one of those statements apply, it might be enough to see Loz move (although I think he'd see Bath as a more attractive option than us)
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 08, 2020, 03:51:06 PM
He wont get near England now IMO, so won't need to be on the main stage.
Post by: matelot22 on January 08, 2020, 03:55:59 PM
Regarding that i'd say he would see their were lower hanging fruit than himself and as he's clearly happy enough, if he isn't pushed, he wont jump.
He wont get near England now IMO, so won't need to be on the main stage.
Yeah, I get that, but as a player still young enough to get the call, he must surely have ambitions??
Not for a minute suggesting any of what I proposed is true, just the deranged meanderings of an addled brain, and to be honest if his heart was not in playing for us before, then I don't know why it would be now, so not certain I'd welcome him back in any case.
Post by: Shugs on January 08, 2020, 08:27:06 PM
Post by: backdoc on January 08, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Jacob, Wolstenholme, Flament, West, Oghre, Cardell, with James, Owlett, Porter, Spink, and Willis next in line. Sirker to return from injury.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 08, 2020, 11:05:03 PM
Post by: AKWasp on January 09, 2020, 08:02:30 AM
Don’t know whether the club would sign a top class 10 for Jacob to learn from or give Jacob the 10 shirt outright and get someone to back him up.
Saying that I’d like to see an Owen Williams type player at the club, playmaking 12 who’s just as adept at 10.
Always been an admirer of Volavola who’s better than being a second choice 10 (even if it is at Racing behind Finn Russell)
Post by: mike909 on January 09, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
What 10s would people want to see at the club IF (I still believe Lima will stay) Lima leaves.
Someone like Freddie Burns - wide experience - not going to play international rugby again - but has the experience of starting a test in NZ...and playing at three Prem clubs. And has played centre and FB at times too
Or his brother!
Post by: Peej on January 09, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
What 10s would people want to see at the club IF (I still believe Lima will stay) Lima leaves.
Don’t know whether the club would sign a top class 10 for Jacob to learn from or give Jacob the 10 shirt outright and get someone to back him up.
Saying that I’d like to see an Owen Williams type player at the club, playmaking 12 who’s just as adept at 10.
Always been an admirer of Volavola who’s better than being a second choice 10 (even if it is at Racing behind Finn Russell)
I think Williams has been massively over promoted, myself. I really don't think he's quality at 10. Also, afraid I disagree on Volavola, who is hugely flaky.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 09, 2020, 02:57:02 PM
Post by: Neils on January 09, 2020, 03:06:34 PM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 09, 2020, 03:19:49 PM
Post by: AKWasp on January 12, 2020, 08:03:28 PM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 12, 2020, 08:07:49 PM
Post by: Neils on January 12, 2020, 08:16:38 PM
Post by: RBB on January 12, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 12, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
2. Coincidence this another forum mention they'd like Burns then suddenly RIL says Burns is now a rumour?
Post by: mike909 on January 12, 2020, 09:25:58 PM
Post by: Steve from Cov on January 12, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
Burns? No thanks. Not a Wasp.Burns reminds me of Goodey - just a bit more mobile.
Better vfm than Lima I suggest.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 12, 2020, 09:49:52 PM
If you are genuinely talking about an alternative FH then Burns would be it, flakey yes but also does things a bit different. Almost the perfect alternative to change a game.
Yes from me.
Post by: HDAWG on January 13, 2020, 08:22:32 AM
"Despite uncertainty in position, ConventryLive understands that Burns is NOT on Wasps' radar"
Note ConventryLive didn't post equivalent ruling out Brad Shields rumour
Post by: Rory87 on January 23, 2020, 01:55:01 PM
Wasps weren't mentioned as a potential destination for any of the players (probably to the delight of some!). Baxter has hinted that Exeter may look at Saracens players if and when they come available, as I'm sure oth DORs will. So it got me thinking on a few things....
*Will we look to target Saracens players if they become available? Would we be an attractive destinations for them?
*Would we offer Daly a return?
*Do we have the ability to target 'Saracens calibre' players (referring to playing ability, not moral compass!)?
*Are we even likely to feature in the rumour mill in general, or will it be a penny pinching summer for us?
Post by: mike909 on January 23, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
*Will we look to target Saracens players if they become available? Would we be an attractive destinations for them?
*Would we offer Daly a return?
*Do we have the ability to target 'Saracens calibre' players (referring to playing ability, not moral compass!)?
*Are we even likely to feature in the rumour mill in general, or will it be a penny pinching summer for us?
I hope we don't but for a rugby player, a job's a job.
Daly - no
We might - players like Maitland perhaps or Nick I?
Penny pinching looks likely, unless we release an expensive player or two (Say Brad and Lima?)
Post by: HDAWG on January 23, 2020, 02:23:49 PM
It's seeming like penny pinching is accurate.... At this point we'd expect rumours, we've only rumours who's leaving.
This time last year we had rumours of players joining and leaving.
Makes me concerned players like Sopoaga are re signing and we haven't heard a replacement for Searle other than very early season rumours that we were "looking at fly halves", nothing since.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 23, 2020, 02:45:34 PM
I'm not concerned by a lack of news, there isn't much out there for any team at the moment other than rumours.
For the record i don't expect there to be as many Sarries players available as people are speculating..nor do I want any, they grate me.
Post by: DGP Wasp on January 23, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
As for Sarries rejects, first off it remains to be seen just how many of their big name internationals will stick around in the Championship. Think Daly has burnt his bridges, so very little prospect of him coming back (thought his girlfriend wanted to be back in London anyway).
Maitland is a good shout. We're short of top class wingers. He doesn't appear to have the ego of some of his team mates and his market value should be more in line with our budget.
I'd also welcome Loz back quite happily.
Post by: Tervueren on January 23, 2020, 03:16:35 PM
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on January 23, 2020, 03:22:45 PM
Post by: westwaleswasp on January 23, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
I suspect that after every awful performance there will be a clarion call for more spending, whilst after every win people will be happier with low key signings and academy promotions. I would like us to sign in the weaker positions, thinking back to guys like Wentzel and Betsen, what a massive difference they made. They came for the right reasons, of course, and I would like that to be the case with any Sarries former players. That said, there might be a bit of disenchantment about the great satans of barnet, and if they disperse they might turn Queen's evidence and lift the lid on the unsavoury episode. Beneath the veneer something very rotten has lurked and multiplied for a long time.
Post by: Rory87 on January 23, 2020, 04:55:12 PM
For the record, my answers would be:
*Yes if the right sarries player was available and willing to come. Still would love Loz to come back as think he is the perfect long term replacement for Gops. Maitland is a great shout too
*I'd say no to Daly too
*I like to think we would be attractive to players but appreciate we're currently less so than other clubs, but depends on the position as we could offer regular game time to some
*I too don't mind us not being linked to everyone and anyone anymore. It just concerns me sometimes that we aren't, but perhaps it does make Dai's job a lot easier
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 23, 2020, 05:09:00 PM
If we're going to be spending money on bringing people to be part of Wasps I'm more interested in growing the coaching team.
Post by: HDAWG on January 23, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
E.g. Searle needs replacing. Shields and Sopoaga may need replacing. But for all 3 distribution of money will be different if we get replacements and I'd ideally prefer to spend less as well.
We need to be smarter with our funds. Investment in academy and coaching us a good shout. But I'm still concerned over 10 and 12 in terms of current depth and how long Gopperth+Sopoaga will be here.
Post by: Shugs on January 23, 2020, 06:09:47 PM
Post by: backdoc on January 23, 2020, 07:46:41 PM
The young guys have talked about their group culture and it is this that will determine our trajectory in the next half decade. The quality of some of these newcomers is staggering - I well remember the last tranch of Daly/Launch/Wade/Jones. To have 9 of them in one season, and to have so much match time for Wolstenholme, Cardell, Flament, Ogre, and of course Jacob - already this season [8 games in] is a big boost, even if we are not yet winning games. It was the same in 2011.
Post by: coddy on January 23, 2020, 08:08:19 PM
Post by: BdeB on January 23, 2020, 08:32:08 PM
Post by: coddy on January 23, 2020, 08:50:52 PM
Twitter rumour that there will be changes at the top of the Wasps coaching team as early as Monday.
Got a link?
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 23, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
About as in the know as my nan. More likely they are changing the team bus.
Post by: Raggs on January 23, 2020, 09:05:25 PM
Beardmore from Eggchasers.
About as in the know as my nan. More likely they are changing the team bus.
Could well be the Blackett to Cov thing.
Post by: MarleyWasp on January 23, 2020, 10:03:10 PM
Post by: JonnyD on January 23, 2020, 10:21:17 PM
Sanderson to step up as head coach under Dai as DOR. Sanderson is always fantastic when interviewed pitchside.
Loz and Skelton all day long for me, Skelton would make such an impact with his carrying work compared to our other locks, bit of an enforcer role too which we’ve not had for a long time, sure he’ll end up in france next though
Post by: Rossm on January 23, 2020, 10:46:33 PM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 23, 2020, 10:49:58 PM
Twitter rumour that there will be changes at the top of the Wasps coaching team as early as Monday.
Interesting! I've been half expecting to see some movement since the start of the season.
Time will tell I suppose.
Post by: Neils on January 23, 2020, 11:14:50 PM
Post by: mike909 on January 24, 2020, 10:11:51 AM
Post by: Marlovian on January 24, 2020, 11:17:49 AM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 24, 2020, 11:57:41 AM
Alex King coming in as head coach????
Does he have the experience to be Head Coach?
Post by: Rory87 on January 24, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
I'm guessing this is going to be the Blackett to Coventry announcement.
Post by: Neils on January 24, 2020, 12:00:05 PM
I'm not sure it will be an incoming coach, wrong time of year for that to be announced.... unless it's an unemployed one.
I'm guessing this is going to be the Blackett to Coventry announcement.
+1
Post by: baldpaul101 on January 24, 2020, 12:04:40 PM
Post by: DGP Wasp on January 24, 2020, 12:28:28 PM
Post by: westwaleswasp on January 24, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
His ban runs out in June. Wondered at the time it was announced whether Wasps might be interested for next season. Ex-Wasp (scorer of one of the most famous tries in the Wasps history), good international coaching experience (although I know he's not universally popular in Wales, but I think that stems from spells in charge while Gats was tied up with the Lions), played with Dai both for Cardiff and Wales, and presumably available at something of a knock-down price.
He got a real kicking from the press and public here, it was shameful.
Post by: DGP Wasp on January 24, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
His ban runs out in June. Wondered at the time it was announced whether Wasps might be interested for next season. Ex-Wasp (scorer of one of the most famous tries in the Wasps history), good international coaching experience (although I know he's not universally popular in Wales, but I think that stems from spells in charge while Gats was tied up with the Lions), played with Dai both for Cardiff and Wales, and presumably available at something of a knock-down price.
He got a real kicking from the press and public here, it was shameful.
Was that not mainly as a result of a dip in results every time Gatland coached the Lions and Howler was left in charge? His record as a backs / skills coach under Gats stands up I think. I'd be happy to have him at Wasps.
Post by: HDAWG on January 24, 2020, 12:44:42 PM
Part of me thinks he could do great things again if given a chance. The other part remembers Wales attack the past couple of years has been dire at times. I'm honestly torn.
Post by: welsh wasp on January 24, 2020, 01:24:36 PM
This topic may justify a thread on its own. Any high up there, a try by Simpson against Quins at the Stoop.
Post by: westwaleswasp on January 24, 2020, 02:04:06 PM
His ban runs out in June. Wondered at the time it was announced whether Wasps might be interested for next season. Ex-Wasp (scorer of one of the most famous tries in the Wasps history), good international coaching experience (although I know he's not universally popular in Wales, but I think that stems from spells in charge while Gats was tied up with the Lions), played with Dai both for Cardiff and Wales, and presumably available at something of a knock-down price.
He got a real kicking from the press and public here, it was shameful.
Was that not mainly as a result of a dip in results every time Gatland coached the Lions and Howler was left in charge? His record as a backs / skills coach under Gats stands up I think. I'd be happy to have him at Wasps.
Yes, basically. Being in charge for the autumn in Wales is often awkward, iirc he got a bum deal in terms of fixtures generally.
Post by: mike909 on January 24, 2020, 02:11:28 PM
Part of me thinks he could do great things again if given a chance. The other part remembers Wales attack the past couple of years has been dire at times. I'm honestly torn.
I think Wales were looking towards a more conservative approach - like the one that beat England in Cardiff last time out. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit - and I think between them - Gats and Rob looked to maximising the benefit from their team above an aesthetic approach.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 24, 2020, 03:12:25 PM
Post by: Neils on January 24, 2020, 03:21:33 PM
Post by: WickedWasp on January 24, 2020, 05:36:17 PM
Post by: Wiltshire Wasp on January 24, 2020, 06:25:06 PM
Post by: Davidabricot on January 24, 2020, 07:06:37 PM
I like Daï but after 9 years, what can we expect now?
Post by: backdoc on January 24, 2020, 08:19:06 PM
I wonder if we are underusing Andrea Masi - he was such a hero as a player, and had a very good understanding of attack/defence as a player.
Post by: Davidabricot on January 24, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
- Reggiardo in Castres spent started in 3rd division, than in 2nd, then with Agen, before coming back to Castres (despite he saved the club 2 times from the proD2)
- Mola started to train in Castres, then in 3rd division, also in 2nd before coming to the top with Toulouse
- O'Gara started quickly with Racing and La Rochelle, but finally I'm not sure we can call it a success.
- Ibanez, was not really good at Bordeaux, but he spent long hours working in NZ to improve his skills
I don't know, Masi could be nice maybe, as he already knows the club and he would be able to make the link with young players. Just 2 days remain, we will soon know if Daï will be out.
Post by: Shugs on January 24, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
Post by: Davidabricot on January 24, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
I don't think for a minute this will be about Dai.
I'm afraid you're right. Wait & see. The most important remains tomorrow's game. I really think (hope) we can defeat Worcester. Their wings are young and fast, but they are not so powerful and they lack of good tacklers.
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 24, 2020, 10:08:58 PM
Post by: Neils on January 25, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Post by: wasps on January 25, 2020, 02:39:43 PM
On the "other" site there is a thread suggesting both Loz and Goode on the way to us. Interesting.
Do they have any basis for that... Or is it more of a "we'd like them"?
Loz I can see
However, unless we see minozzi's future on the wing, Goode would be a surprise
Post by: Neils on January 25, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Post by: Chunky24 on January 25, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
On the "other" site there is a thread suggesting both Loz and Goode on the way to us. Interesting.
Do they have any basis for that... Or is it more of a "we'd like them"?
Loz I can see
However, unless we see minozzi's future on the wing, Goode would be a surprise
Goode also provides 10 cover with Searle going, possibly even 12.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 25, 2020, 03:46:31 PM
Post by: Rossm on January 25, 2020, 05:17:44 PM
Well he would wouldn't he?
Post by: Shugs on January 25, 2020, 05:22:25 PM
Post by: Rossm on January 25, 2020, 05:25:01 PM
Undoubtedly two good players but I was hoping we'd steer clear of the great Sarries sale. If we have to have two I'd take these. Goode is solid and versatile and Lozowski would solve our issues at 12. Would still be bittersweet for me though.
Basically, I'd rather not take any of them and that definitely includes their coaching staff. I would never be confident where their loyalties lie.
Post by: AKWasp on January 25, 2020, 06:33:38 PM
Post by: coddy on January 25, 2020, 07:28:53 PM
That didn't work out for him and since he's been a bit part squad player with Salarysins he may be delighted to be in with a good chance of being our starting 12.
Post by: HDAWG on January 26, 2020, 08:47:25 AM
1. Source is "as reliable as it gets" which for them could mean anyone.
2. Loz has had more mentions (from rugbypass and TRP) going to Bath, which makes more sense with Roberts leaving. I think that's where he'll go.
3. Why would one of the best fullbacks in Europe join us right now? Do we desperately need him? Loz I can understand, but Goode? I'll admit he'd give incredible support to Minozzi and James, but why would he join us?
Move along people nothing to see here.... Though again, I wish it were true.
Post by: Neils on January 26, 2020, 08:54:07 AM
Also interesting is Walders CV being circulated.
Post by: andermt on January 26, 2020, 09:06:46 AM
Stated that Burns apparently linked to Wasps but they have heard he isn't interested, and Lyon might be interested.
Lyon also apparently chasing Lima.
Also in article there was a list of Sarries players looking to move, no mention of Wasps being linked to any of them.
Post by: HDAWG on January 26, 2020, 09:12:13 AM
Post by: wasps on January 26, 2020, 09:44:26 AM
Loz to Bath according to TRP also says we enquired about Farrell. Now that might have ended my ST.
Also interesting is Walders CV being circulated.
Interesting re: Farrell
The other 11 prem clubs could all register an interest in some Saracens players and see what salaries they're requesting..... Or to see who is actually leaving (if anyone)
I'd like to think that our only interest in Farrell would be to try to help just Saracens even more
Post by: Neils on January 26, 2020, 09:59:08 AM
Anyone have full link to TRP article in question?
Nope it's the Sunday hard copy. Later in the week they free up articles somebody might be on subscription though.
Post by: Rory87 on January 26, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
I know some are totally against the idea of us signing one of them. I am still very much enraged at what Sarries have done and feel their punishment is fully justified. However, I wouldn’t close the door on the players for that reason. I hope that if we do sign one of them, then we as a fan base welcome them with open arms and allow them this fresh start and opportunity to give their all for wasps... with our second guessing the reasons for why they signed and all that.
I think Loz will always be linked by some to us due to his previous stint here. I think he would be a perfect fit but most reliable news outlets have him going to Bath.
Was Goode mentioned in the rugby paper then? Great player and one I would welcome
Post by: bertywasp on January 26, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
Post by: Rory87 on January 26, 2020, 10:55:31 PM
As Berry he said, we must remember this is their job and a short career at that. So with the above situations, very few few of us would turn down extra salary so we can’t expect players to too.
I’m not saying that none of the players knew what was going on and complicit in it all. But we can’t make a sweeping statement that they all were. For that reason, I do hope Dai is looking at players looking to depart Saracens. They’re getting relegated so it’s perfectly acceptable for them to look for the exit door.... Wilson to Sale, Goneva to Quins, Kibrige to Us!
I just hope there aren’t too many rumours that don’t pan out like last season
Post by: RogerE on January 26, 2020, 10:57:53 PM
Although I played my rugby in the amateur days pre-leagues, if in today's professional era I was offered a contract which involved "extras" such as a new house etc and the club's experienced legal staff assured me it was a legitimate way of getting round the cap I'm pretty sure I would seriously consider it. Don't get me wrong, I deplore what the owners have done with Saracens and the club deserves all the disciplinary measures meted out to them but I don't think that Wasps should ignore considering acquiring any of their players purely based on "they knew what they were doing"
Even though Sarries refused to deal with agents, all players have them. I would have thought the players would have, at least, told them about the offers Sarries had made, and if the agents didn't express an opinion as to the legality then they weren't doing their jobs.
Post by: Neils on January 26, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
Although I played my rugby in the amateur days pre-leagues, if in today's professional era I was offered a contract which involved "extras" such as a new house etc and the club's experienced legal staff assured me it was a legitimate way of getting round the cap I'm pretty sure I would seriously consider it. Don't get me wrong, I deplore what the owners have done with Saracens and the club deserves all the disciplinary measures meted out to them but I don't think that Wasps should ignore considering acquiring any of their players purely based on "they knew what they were doing"
Even though Sarries refused to deal with agents, all players have them. I would have thought the players would have, at least, told them about the offers Sarries had made, and if the agents didn't express an opinion as to the legality then they weren't doing their jobs.
Plus they would have financial advisors and lawyers where contracts are involved. If no advice was given appropriately then there are some professional people who need "looking at"
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 26, 2020, 11:43:18 PM
BATH are leading
the hunt for Alex
Lozowski as the
departures from
disgraced Premiership
champions
Saracens pick
up the pace.
Lozowski, 26,
is out of contract
this
summer and is
set to leave
Allianz Park
in a bid to
revive his
international
career.
The son of
former Wasps
and England
centre Rob, he
moved to Saracens in
2016 after a two-year
stint with his dad’s
former club.
Lozowski, who plays
at centre or fly-half,
and started his career
with Leeds Carnegie is
a leading target for
Bath boss Stuart
Hooper.
Springbok prop Vincent
Koch is attracting
interest from his native
South Africa with the
Blue Bulls hoping to
sign him.
England second row
George Kruis is set to
knock back La
Rochelle because he
fancies a move to
Japan. La Rochelle
have started to follow
Will Skelton on Instagram
while Lyon have
also been linked.
Nick Tompkins, who
was called into Wales’
Six Nations squad, is a
target for the Scarlets
who would like to take
him on loan next
season.
Blindside understands
that several
Premiership clubs
have put talks on hold
with earlier targets
because they are trying
to grab a bargain from
any Saracens fire sale.
But the majority of
Saracens’ England
hopefuls are likely to
leave on loan while
stars like Owen Farrell,
Maro Itoje and
Jamie George are staying.
Ben Spencer has
been interesting Bristol,
Exeter Chiefs,
Bath, Newcastle Falcons
and Northampton
Saints.
We have also heard
Saints could be interested
in Ben Earl while
Bristol have also been
looking at him.
Chiefs could also
come in for Max Malins
while Jack Singleton
and Nick Isiekwe
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 26, 2020, 11:43:52 PM
Lyon are looking for a
new fly-half and have
Wasps former All Black
playmaker Lima Sopoaga
on the list of players
that they would like to
sign.
Sopoaga, has the
option of an
extra year
on his
contract
with
struggling
Wasps,
but as
Blindside
reported last week,
they want to sign a big
name fly-half for next
season.
Wasps were ready to
test the waters with an
enquiry for England
skipper Owen Farrell,
before he made it clear
he isn’t going to leave
Saracens despite their
relegation to the
Championship at the
end of the season.
Sopoaga, 28, who has
won 18 Test caps,
helped the Highlanders
win their first-ever
Super Rugby title four
years ago.
He has previously
said he isn’t leaving
Wasps next summer.
But that is not
puting off Lyon
who are also
weighing up
Bath’s
Freddie
Burns,
above,
who is in
the final
months
of his
contract
and is keen
to play more often than
he has been next
season.
Burns has also been
linked with Wasps, but
we understand that
isn’t a move being
considered by the
former Leicester and
England international.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 26, 2020, 11:44:27 PM
now understood to have
completed a deal for England
prop Kyle Sinckler,
are still in the hunt to
strengthen their squad.
Blindside has been told
that Sinckler, 26, has
agreed to leave
Harlequins for Bristol but
an announcement could
be held up by the Six Nations
which kicks off next
week.
They could now switch
their attentions to Exeter
Chiefs’ former England
flanker Matt Kvesic who
is out of contract at
Sandy Park at the end of
the season.
German-born
Kvesic could be
too pricy for
the Chiefs to
keep at the club
and Bristol have
been sniffing
about while Glasgow
are also in the market for
an openside.
Kvesic, left, who
started his career
with Worcester
Warriors and has
four England caps
to his name moved
to Devon three years
ago after a
Post by: wasps on January 27, 2020, 12:08:42 AM
I totally understand where Bertie and Rory are coming from.
If we're to believe the reports that Saracens have been doing similar deals for years with approval from PRL /salary cap manager, then why would this current crop of players believe that it's suddenly no longer legal?
That being said, we only know of deals for a handful of their players - their absolute top stars.
Even if it's all out in the open at Saracens so that everyone knows it's going on (and that they have parties where they laugh at the rest of us for our naivety), it would still be a hard push to believe that their wider squad players (Malins, singleton Loz, Barrington, Kpoku, Isiekwe etc) know enough about employment law to question what's going on.
Even if they ask their advisors, (agents / accountants /lawyers etc) the deals sound similar enough to those that have previously been approved that you'd have to be an expert in the field and have full details to hand to stand a chance of categorically knowing to exact legality.
Post by: HDAWG on January 27, 2020, 06:12:33 AM
Post by: Heathen on January 27, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Post by: backdoc on January 27, 2020, 11:16:38 AM
Post by: Raggs on January 27, 2020, 11:18:54 AM
Post by: Neils on January 27, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
Post by: AKWasp on January 27, 2020, 11:48:07 AM
Post by: Neils on January 27, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 27, 2020, 12:20:27 PM
Post by: Peej on January 27, 2020, 12:28:13 PM
Walder I'd definitely like to see back though
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 27, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
I dont have an opinion on this one.
Post by: wasps on January 27, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Cant remember what the interview was but it wasnt complimentary about Howley's "people skills', far from itin fact.
I dont have an opinion on this one.
I'm assuming that Dai still knows Howley pretty well.
Dai seems to be universally liked as a person, and appears to be a genuinely nice guy with good people skills.
I would think he'd only bring Howley in if he thought he fitted in with his idea of the coaching / player dynamic
Post by: HDAWG on January 27, 2020, 12:54:44 PM
Post by: Neils on January 27, 2020, 03:32:07 PM
Post by: SilverShire on January 27, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51268605
Post by: welsh wasp on January 27, 2020, 04:36:45 PM
Post by: mike909 on January 27, 2020, 04:44:44 PM
I’d be happy with Howley, international quality and would relish the chance to get his coaching career back on track after the betting suspension.
Plus one for me. I think that we might get a bargain at first - others have said how good he is off first phase and worked well with the Lions as well?
Post by: DGP Wasp on January 27, 2020, 04:51:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6CQz_gCzJw
So let's give the bloke a second chance!
Post by: Shugs on January 27, 2020, 05:40:48 PM
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 27, 2020, 06:17:11 PM
Post by: Davidabricot on January 27, 2020, 06:26:23 PM
If you want big rumours, note that things are going really bad in Castres. Players have voluntarily dropped the game against Racing, to protest against the staff. There is a rumour around the president. Wtf is the link with Wasps? Fans were expecting Worsely to become the director of rugby. However, the recruitment is still on going. Hence, Worsely might have a plan for the next season. Come back to Wasps? Even if I'm not sure this is a good idea (the defence is quite poor since he's here). Let's see if it will happen ^^.
Post by: mike909 on January 27, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
I'd be happy with Howley. Apart from anything else, he did this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6CQz_gCzJw
So let's give the bloke a second chance!
That was a team that took no prisoners - and I'd forgotten that try!
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on January 27, 2020, 06:32:47 PM
Hiring Howley is like being little-sarries ;D . I think this is not a bad news, but I'm not ready to forgive what he did with bets.
If you want big rumours, note that things are going really bad in Castres. Players have voluntarily dropped the game against Racing, to protest against the staff. There is a rumour around the president. Wtf is the link with Wasps? Fans were expecting Worsely to become the director of rugby. However, the recruitment is still on going. Hence, Worsely might have a plan for the next season. Come back to Wasps? Even if I'm not sure this is a good idea (the defence is quite poor since he's here). Let's see if it will happen ^^.
I wouldnt want him to come in as DOR, but as part of a team of coaches, maybe even head coach I would dearly love to see Wurzel back.
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 27, 2020, 06:47:05 PM
I loved Howley and Worsley the players, but based on results, i may or may not love these same guys as coaches.
Post by: Davidabricot on January 27, 2020, 06:54:54 PM
Post by: SilverShire on January 27, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 27, 2020, 07:21:01 PM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 27, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: Raggs on January 27, 2020, 07:29:54 PM
He's not allowed to bet on any game of rugby. He could have inside knowledge of a lot of teams by talking to payers.
Post by: wasps on January 27, 2020, 08:01:14 PM
Hundreds of bets across thousands of games. Lost a fair bit of cash.
He's not allowed to bet on any game of rugby. He could have inside knowledge of a lot of teams by talking to payers.
Can you hundreds of bets across thousands of games?
Although not the point, if he lost a lot it doesn't sound like he was getting much inside info
Post by: Raggs on January 27, 2020, 08:02:49 PM
Hundreds of bets across thousands of games. Lost a fair bit of cash.
He's not allowed to bet on any game of rugby. He could have inside knowledge of a lot of teams by talking to payers.
Can you hundreds of bets across thousands of games?
Although not the point, if he lost a lot it doesn't sound like he was getting much inside info
Accumulators. He was using good official wru email. Sound more like someone with a gambling problem and a big cry for help, trying to get caught.
Post by: JonnyD on January 27, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
Howley in comparison is worlds away in terms of a step up. He has coached the lions for goodness sake and the backs were pretty exciting in recent tours!
Yes he has been a silly boy but a fresh approach could be massive, maybe knows a skills coach and a defence guru that could come on board too!!
Can’t work until June 10th or something like that but with Walshe gone already from Cov they might want Blackett now, we might need Jimmy to take the reigns with Gleeson until Howler can return
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 27, 2020, 08:13:36 PM
I dont call 4k a lot of cash to lose. Its a holiday for 2 ThailandHundreds of bets across thousands of games. Lost a fair bit of cash.
He's not allowed to bet on any game of rugby. He could have inside knowledge of a lot of teams by talking to payers.
Can you hundreds of bets across thousands of games?
Although not the point, if he lost a lot it doesn't sound like he was getting much inside info
Accumulators. He was using good official wru email. Sound more like someone with a gambling problem and a big cry for help, trying to get caught.
Post by: Davidabricot on January 27, 2020, 08:58:29 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 27, 2020, 09:20:20 PM
We are pointing out his accomplishments. What else can we judge them on prior to joining?
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 27, 2020, 10:56:45 PM
Post by: InBetweenWasp on January 27, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
I’m not convinced of his coaching record - As a Backs Coach some of the non-Welsh Lions players were pretty critical of him, suggesting that they ran the tactics such was his lack of imagination and ideas.
He’s had Gatland and Edwards hand-holding him and it’s unclear how big a part he played in Wales’ successes, especially considering they have often been cited as a team who struggles to score tries.
A good looking CV, but not sure the reality would stack up to the theory.
Walder was a fairly conservative Fly-Half (by comparison to the likes of Nicky Robinson at the time), but had Newcastle’s back looking very good, even in the year of their demise some of the tries they scored were sublime.
If we get him, I hope I’m proved wrong. But he wouldn’t be my first (or second, or third) choice
Post by: wasps on January 28, 2020, 05:27:16 AM
Quote
As a Backs Coach some of the non-Welsh Lions players were pretty critical of him, suggesting that they ran the tactics such was his lack of imagination and ideas.
It's an interesting thing with coaches that I never really understand.
Someone like Brian Ashton is often heralded for letting players make the decisions themselves and come up with their own attacking patterns.
Eddie Jones is often criticsised for controlling things too much.
Quote
He’s had Gatland and Edwards hand-holding him and it’s unclear how big a part he played in Wales’ successes, especially considering they have often been cited as a team who struggles to score tries.That's a bit harsh.
A coaching team, like a playing team is meant to work together and be more than the sum of their parts.
I don't see Edwards or Gatland being the kind of individuals who would keep someone around of they weren't pulling their weight
Quote
Walder was a fairly conservative Fly-Half (by comparison to the likes of Nicky Robinson at the time), but had Newcastle’s back looking very good, even in the year of their demise some of the tries they scored were sublime.As for Walder, he's had a very short coaching career. You could argue that Dean Richards could have been hand holding him in the same way that Gatland and Edwards hand hold Howley.
Newcastle obviously had a great season, but then a very poor one. With the wingers they had they were always going to look very good at times.
Lee Blackett looked like an attacking genius with Wade and Varndell at his disposal, now people are critical when he's working with Bassett and Watson
As with any new arrival we'll never know until they try and get some time under their belts.
However, on paper Howley is up there with the best that we could get
Post by: Peej on January 28, 2020, 11:19:18 AM
Post by: Gaz on January 28, 2020, 11:25:51 AM
While everyone seemed to be in London to see the game I was in ... Toulouse!
Post by: Mellie on January 28, 2020, 11:39:26 AM
Post by: mike909 on January 28, 2020, 01:37:45 PM
The stuff about Sexton and Farrell leading the coaching came from Sean O'Brien and was dismissed by Gatland as being ignorant of the intention. Howley was trying to get players to work out what to do on the pitch and communicate it rather than do what the coach told them to. So you would expect that leadership from the 10s. He used a chaos theory of coaching to get players to asses situations and react. Personally I think that is good coaching. Prescriptive do as I say coaching does not allow for any adaptation to unrecognised situations.
Sounds the opposite of England, at times....I've never seen England play better than (say) 18 min vs SA in SA in 2018 Test one and then fail to adapt all within the same game. I think Gatland's approach is great - you can see that approach when he was boss here!
Post by: backdoc on January 28, 2020, 03:27:58 PM
Post by: Shugs on January 28, 2020, 10:15:28 PM
Post by: Nopace on January 29, 2020, 01:26:32 PM
Post by: RogerE on January 29, 2020, 01:42:25 PM
If so would seem he is a replacement for Billy Searle.
However it could be Lima is off to France, as has been rumoured elsewhere.
Post by: HDAWG on January 29, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Post by: Hymenoptera on January 29, 2020, 02:30:42 PM
Post by: HDAWG on January 29, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Post by: HDAWG on February 12, 2020, 04:20:37 PM
Well there goes that rumour.
Post by: JonnyD on February 13, 2020, 10:22:45 AM
Only issues are he is still in contract and rumoured to be asking for a release and hasn’t he been captain this year?
Apparently best buds with Robson and waiting for wasps to improve their offer.
Think Dai might have been in twice already for him over the years, but that of course could all be out of the window now
Post by: mike909 on February 13, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
Post by: RBB on February 13, 2020, 10:48:51 AM
Post by: Beasties on February 13, 2020, 11:28:49 AM
Post by: Chilham on February 13, 2020, 12:18:27 PM
Post by: AKWasp on February 13, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
Seems like a move that makes sense
Post by: Hymenoptera on February 13, 2020, 03:47:15 PM
The fact he's contracted already shuts this rumour down. He is a quality player though no doubt.
Post by: Raggs on March 03, 2020, 01:07:28 PM
Post by: Hymenoptera on March 03, 2020, 01:54:02 PM