Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Sting on February 11, 2020, 11:11:57 AM
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https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/live-wasps-boss-dai-young-17726902
*title amended as it is so unclear what has happened as no official wasps communication
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It's possible that this is a move to a more managerial role for the future, a partial leave of absence (medical or otherwise), or the precursor to him moving on fomr the club.
If it's the latter, than I don't think I'd be too surprised; something needs to change, and with the safety net preventing relegation for us this season, it would makes some sense to act now and get as much time as possible to assess suitability of current coaches to step up, or scout out someone from outside the club.
My query is who can we get to replace him? #ReturnOfGatland ;D
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Comment from Bobby Bridge re yesterday's media session
"Yesterday was a bizarre one at Wasps’ weekly media session. Well I say weekly, it was the first one in three weeks due to the gap in the Premiership calendar. While it’s not unusual to have someone other than Dai Young up to speak in the build up to a game, I’ve never known a late change to the schedule as defence coach Ian Costello was thrust into the role - an hour after the scheduled start time.
The reason we were told was because Young was in a meeting with Chief Executive (sport) Stephen Vaughan. I’d seen Dai Young on my way into the building that houses Wasps’ media facilities and shook hands before we went our separate ways to get out of the heavy rain. Shortly before we were told Young wouldn’t be up and Costello was replacing him, Vaughan briefly entered the press room, shook a few hands before leaving.
Only myself and Clive Eakin from BBC CWR were in attendance - which has often been the case this season with Wasps conducting their media sessions mainly on a Monday when many members of the national press take a day off following their weekend exertions. After Costello finished his questions, I had a look to see if I could locate Dai Young’s car, which is normally parked right outside the building and has a distinctive personalised number plate.
It wasn’t there, but with hundreds of cars onsite, it could’ve been parked parked elsewhere. But I’ve never known the boss’ car not be there for a media day he is up for. Given the match that Wasps have this weekend, a trip to local rivals Leicester Tigers, it was massively surprising to not have the main man facing the questions, especially with a change at such short notice."
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Sounds a bit too sudden for a planned stepping back to bring in a head coach to work with him
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Report does NOT say chopped. It states an "interim period".
Could be that Dai has personal matters, medical predicament etc that are diverting his lifestyle for the time being.
I'm not jumping to conclusions until we know better.
Good luck Dai, whatever.
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+1
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Makes you wonder they have someone (big) lined up to join the coaching team, who wanted Dai moved gently aside. The statement is somewhat short and terse. Might mean he is going, but (I hope), it might mean he is taking a more managerial role, which seems to be the way other clubs are going.
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Makes you wonder they have someone (big) lined up to join the coaching team, who wanted Dai moved gently aside. The statement is somewhat short and terse. Might mean he is going, but (I hope), it might mean he is taking a more managerial role, which seems to be the way other clubs are going.
Matches my first thought. Such a move would suggest a plan in place. I guess we'll see shortly.
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Interesting that this has not appeared on any Wasps media outlet. Not the offy, Twitter, FB etc.
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Report does NOT say chopped. It states an "interim period".
Could be that Dai has personal matters, medical predicament etc that are diverting his lifestyle for the time being.
I'm not jumping to conclusions until we know better.
Good luck Dai, whatever.
This.
Also have noticed at some matches (Bordeaux and Agen in particular) he is not moving well at the moment with a very distinct limp. one match he didn't seem to come down at half time then limped down at the end - given his career and bulk I wouldn't be surprised if some form of knee op is required. Whatever he has been (and may continue to be) a good servant of Wasps and should have our thanks.
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Not sure what to make of that.
"Chopped" seems a bit of an overstatement at this stage. Stepping down for an "interim period" may be just that for any number of personal reasons, or it could be that a more permanent arrangement will follow, be that a move "upstairs" or something more terminal depending on negotiations over the coming days. All speculation at the moment though, beyond the fact that he's taking a short term step back.
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as others have said, strange timing. Wishing Dai well whatever the challenge.
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Something decidedly odd is going on.
If he has been removed, it makes no sense to do it now on the back of more positive results and with there being no threat of relegation this season.
Wait out for further info I guess
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Not sure I agree with the title of this thread, but will certainly get fast clicks!
I see it as a shuffle in the management structure, not a chopping. Many other clubs have done this in recent years so it's not a surprise. The question is why now....
* Because a world class coach has become available?
* Because the pressure of relegation has been removed, we have an opportunity to make changes will less risk? (as Dan has said previously)
* Dai has some personal matter (health or otherwise) which means he need to manage his time/commitment more?
Given the 3rd reason is a real possibility, we should be mindful of our comments on the matter. Hope all is well with Dai and I for one am glad he remains within the club.
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Find it weird that Wasps Twitter and main site have no reference yet.
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For what it's worth, my initial thoughts were 'he's being removed'. Then thinking about it things don't stack up. If you were going to get rid of someone totally you would just announce it: If you were going to move someone upstairs you would get things in place and then just announce it. So, my thoughts are that this is something that, at least to begin with, is temporary but maybe not guaranteed not to become permanent. So maybe a personal or medical issue or even a misconduct investigation (I feel that this one is unlikely)? Time will tell.
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Medical problem? Sciatica more disabling and more likely to need urgent surgery than an arthritic joint. You have to think cardiac as well with Dai's size. Let's hope it is not too serious whatever the cause.
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BBC also reporting it as 'interim' so it must be a personal issue.
Hope all is well.
Good luck Lee!
(Thought Lee was mean't to be off to Cov wasn't he?)
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This phrase is a bit odd.
"has been relieved of first team duties on an interim basis."
The implication is that there is more to this than has been made public.
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I thought the only statement so far (Coventry Telegraph) is "Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period. Lee Blackett will step up to Interim Head Coach. Further announcements will be made in due course." which talks about stepping back from rather than being relieved of.
*apologies, I missed the other bit of Bobby Bridges report so sit corrected.
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Sky news now reporting Lee is acting Head Coach.
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The suddenness of it suggests it wasn't planned, especially with the interim nature too.
Wonder what's going on.
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This smacks of the Cov telegraph publishing a story before the Club have prepared and are ready to publish a formal statement.
Not exactly a professional way to manage Club Staff and senior staff at that by leaving the internet to speculate about the why's.
If he has been forced to take gardening leave then say so, if its for personal reasons say that but leaving it open speculation is bad. Fans don't need to know every last detail but allowing speculation about why this has happened is just poor to Dai.
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Update (slight) from Bobby Bridge:
Wasps director of rugby Dai Young is taking a step back from first team duties.
CoventryLive can exclusively reveal a senior management meeting was called at the Ricoh Arena this morning followed by the players being told shortly afterwards at the club's Broadstreet RFC training ground base.
We understand that Young, who has been at the club since 2011, has not been dismissed but has been relieved of first team duties on an interim basis.
Back coach Lee Blackett is likely to be in charge for Saturday's trip to Leicester Tigers.
Seems to me this is sudden and unexpected.
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This smacks of the Cov telegraph publishing a story before the Club have prepared and are ready to publish a formal statement.
Not exactly a professional way to manage Club Staff and senior staff at that by leaving the internet to speculate about the why's.
If he has been forced to take gardening leave then say so, if its for personal reasons say that but leaving it open speculation is bad. Fans don't need to know every last detail but allowing speculation about why this has happened is just poor to Dai.
CT are now showing "Dai Young's Wasps career in pictures", bit odd or OTT at present?
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I'm a bit sad because I have always liked Dai and "one of the nice guys" (although that is purely my own perception).
I hope that this is not the end of Dai's association with Wasps and this is something like I've heard previously with Dai moving upstairs (fulfilling his DOR role) and leaving the coaching to a new Head Coach.
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Relieved?
That is either a very poor choice of verb, or it means he wasn't inclined to consent to this change. It suggests it was imposed by the owner rather than requested by Dai. Otherwise, it would have read something more neutral.
Dai Young is taking a step back ... not Dai has decided (for xxx reasons) to focus on management to to hand over first team duties to ....
The whole tone comes over as non-consensual on Dai's part.
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Very odd given the way its been announced.
must be either ill health (but even then you would expect it to be announced & managed better, unless its very sudden) or something disciplinary.
time will tell.
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Still not on Wasps media. Very strange almost inept.
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Relieved?
That is either a very poor choice of verb, or it means he wasn't inclined to consent to this change. It suggests it was imposed by the owner rather than requested by Dai. Otherwise, it would have read something more neutral.
Dai Young is taking a step back ... not Dai has decided (for xxx reasons) to focus on management to to hand over first team duties to ....
The whole tone comes over as non-consensual on Dai's part.
This struck me as odd, too. Supposedly he had a meeting at the Ricoh yesterday, prior to the weekly press conf, but then didn't attend the press conf. Wonder if an idea about his position, and changes to it, was put to him and he wasn't happy, so this forced the club's hand?
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On one hand it was foreseeable. On the other hand, thi seems so sudden!
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Its the suddenness & how seemingly unprepared the club were for it which is the puzzling thing.
the only scenario I can think of that fits is as mentioned elsewhere, The Management have offered Dai something, a change of role or a new coaching structure perhaps, & he is so unhappy with it that he's walked out got in his car & gone home, or to his lawyers office!
I guess it might be reconcilable, hence the seemingly temporary nature of the announcement....
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Or maybe an urgent medical problem.
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This smacks of the Cov telegraph publishing a story before the Club have prepared and are ready to publish a formal statement.
Not exactly a professional way to manage Club Staff and senior staff at that by leaving the internet to speculate about the why's.
If he has been forced to take gardening leave then say so, if its for personal reasons say that but leaving it open speculation is bad. Fans don't need to know every last detail but allowing speculation about why this has happened is just poor to Dai.
CT are now showing "Dai Young's Wasps career in pictures", bit odd or OTT at present?
Particularly as the last picture says his last game in charge was the defeat to Worcester. Which is news to everyone.
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This smacks of the Cov telegraph publishing a story before the Club have prepared and are ready to publish a formal statement.
Not exactly a professional way to manage Club Staff and senior staff at that by leaving the internet to speculate about the why's.
If he has been forced to take gardening leave then say so, if its for personal reasons say that but leaving it open speculation is bad. Fans don't need to know every last detail but allowing speculation about why this has happened is just poor to Dai.
CT are now showing "Dai Young's Wasps career in pictures", bit odd or OTT at present?
Particularly as the last picture says his last game in charge was the defeat to Worcester. Which is news to everyone.
Late TMO ruling?
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Late TMO ruling?
If JP Doyle had been reffing I wouldn't put it past him!
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As I said before this is very strange from the club - 2 pm and still no media announcement to fans/STH etc. I have seen some complaining about speculation but the club could kill it all off with a reasonable statement (no need for specifics). Silence is deadening.
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Silence is deadening
And indicative of something unresolved. If it was anything straight forward it could have been announced by now.
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Depending on the circumstances ane we don't know what the reason(s) are for this sudden change, it could be a tad awkward for Thomas.
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Its pretty clear something is going on at the club. My guess is that the eventual solution is not quite finalised and so the club cannot comment any more than they have.
However this plays out I hope it is amicable all round. We all owe Dai a massive debt of gratitude for all he has done over the years.
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The word Interim is the important one here
Two things come to mind:
1) It's a health issue
2) Rob Howley in June? (or A.N.Other ;))
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Wouldn't want Howley as head coach though. If it's to do with Howley then I'd have thought working with Dai would be a positive for him.
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The spin in the local news media is that it is a consequence of the poor results.
Alec Blackman (a local BBC radio presenter who reports on rugby) said:
' ... results show that, of their last 46 games in all competitions, Wasps have won just 13 under Young's stewardship.'
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The spin in the local news media is that it is a consequence of the poor results.
Alec Blackman (a local BBC radio presenter who reports on rugby) said:
' ... results show that, of their last 46 games in all competitions, Wasps have won just 13 under Young's stewardship.'
Couldn't do much more in the most recent game - a 5 bonus point win away.
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Agreed, but a decision may already have been made higher up, but was contingent on finding an alternative. I doubt Blackett is that.
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Interim implies he’s coming back, at least in some capacity. The abruptness of it may suggest that the club itself wasn’t aware until yesterday and perhaps it’s under doctors orders? Revealing personal details is entirely up to Dai and maybe he himself is only just coming to terms with whatever it is and is not ready to provide more detail. Let’s let him get on with it, wish him well and get behind Lee until we hear otherwise.
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The spin in the local news media is that it is a consequence of the poor results.
Alec Blackman (a local BBC radio presenter who reports on rugby) said:
' ... results show that, of their last 46 games in all competitions, Wasps have won just 13 under Young's stewardship.'
Couldn't do much more in the most recent game - a 5 bonus point win away.
I think that was welcome - obviously. But just like the hype around England's win vs NZ and the widespread criticism about England's game vs France - its too easy to get too focused on individual games.
For Wasps - we've won 13 from 31 Prem games to the start of last season. Which is one less win than in 2017/18 alone (14w 1d from 22)
So you'd probably expect questions?
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I don't buy the 'results' thing. The club would have their ducks in a row before the announcement, especially as he has stepped back in the interim. If they were replacing him for results, but planning on having him stay on then surely they would have waited until his replacement was ready to be announced.
Obviously it could be the options were put to Dai and he walked, but then again you would have thought that there wouldn't be any mention of 'interim' with regards to him stepping back. He would have been announced as leaving the club.
This feels more sudden and unplanned.
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The unfortunate thing here is that the story has effectively been leaked with assumpted and 2 + 2's, I doubt this was the plan by club or Dai.
Club's don't do interim, they either get rid or they don't...and they also plan things better than this shower, so my guess is it's something more personal and we should assume less and wait for more info if and when it's provided.
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Sadly the Coventry Telegraph is getting carried away, following its photo-history of Dai when they even got the Worcester match result the wrong way round, they are now on to No. 7 in the list of who's next for the job.
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At least they haven't (yet) brought up Jones or Townsend as options. But wait .....
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Sadly the Coventry Telegraph is getting carried away, following its photo-history of Dai when they even got the Worcester match result the wrong way round, they are now on to No. 7 in the list of who's next for the job.
No mention of Mark McCall ::)
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Sadly the Coventry Telegraph is getting carried away, following its photo-history of Dai when they even got the Worcester match result the wrong way round, they are now on to No. 7 in the list of who's next for the job.
No mention of Mark McCall ::)
Wash your mouth out! NOW.
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Very sad news.
Dai is a top bloke and a credit to the club.
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All very odd this isn't it. Three main possibilities for me. 1) He's simply been sacked and there is a wrangle over the terms of the departure given he's mid contract. So he's not technically been dismissed yet hence the interim piece. 2) I think it's long been a plan to move Dai upstairs and have a head coach move in. This could be this playing out but if this was it I can't see the announcements would be done in such a ham fisted way. 3) It's a health issue and he's just stepping back for a while before re-taking control. It could be one or three for me. Sincerely hope it's not three from Dai's point of view. However I'd also be really disappointed if he has been dismissed as I personally think he has and continues to do a fantastic job.
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Rule out 1). With no pressure there is no need to act/react in this manner, time is on both your sides.
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Agree to some extent but it seems to have snowballed from the bizarre nature of the press day which led reporters to dig around. Maybe Dai had just been told? I do think it's more likely to be a health issue which is why there is a lack of follow up information - which is totally understandable.
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All very odd this isn't it. Three main possibilities for me. 1) He's simply been sacked and there is a wrangle over the terms of the departure given he's mid contract. So he's not technically been dismissed yet hence the interim piece. 2) I think it's long been a plan to move Dai upstairs and have a head coach move in. This could be this playing out but if this was it I can't see the announcements would be done in such a ham fisted way. 3) It's a health issue and he's just stepping back for a while before re-taking control. It could be one or three for me. Sincerely hope it's not three from Dai's point of view. However I'd also be really disappointed if he has been dismissed as I personally think he has and continues to do a fantastic job.
I cannot see it is #2. The replacement would have also been announced.
I also cannot see it is #1, as the HR 'way' is always to pay off the contract and ask them to leave now.
It might be #3, but they would have said so.
I think it is #4. He got re-involved in coaching when the deal with Danny Wilson fell through. He probably didn't want to do that and said so at the time, and he has simply had enough. My guess is that Wasps have a head coach lined up. If it was Howley, there would be nothing to stop Wasps from saying that. Something this weekend may have triggered it. Maybe Scotland are having second thoughts about their coaching setup? Maybe they have withdrawn the Glasgow offer to Wilson? Something has kicked off in the background that has enabled Wasps to do this now.
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Could it not be that if it is Howley then there might be a problem with announcing him before his ban finishes, in case it might be seen that he has transgressed the terms of the ban?
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For me.....
I just can’t see that Dai is moving up stairs in mid season and before his Head Coach replacement has been announced.
The absence of a Wasps statement is leading to Dai obituaries and headlines that he has been axed. The communications vacuum is not the way to treat the next DOR or someone who is staying with the club.
It is quite normal for there to be silence until the terms of a compromise agreement are agreed.
I hope I’m wrong though.
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Could also be personal without being his health.
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All very odd this isn't it. Three main possibilities for me. 1) He's simply been sacked and there is a wrangle over the terms of the departure given he's mid contract. So he's not technically been dismissed yet hence the interim piece. 2) I think it's long been a plan to move Dai upstairs and have a head coach move in. This could be this playing out but if this was it I can't see the announcements would be done in such a ham fisted way. 3) It's a health issue and he's just stepping back for a while before re-taking control. It could be one or three for me. Sincerely hope it's not three from Dai's point of view. However I'd also be really disappointed if he has been dismissed as I personally think he has and continues to do a fantastic job.
I think it is #4. He got re-involved in coaching when the deal with Danny Wilson fell through. He probably didn't want to do that and said so at the time, and he has simply had enough. My guess is that Wasps have a head coach lined up. If it was Howley, there would be nothing to stop Wasps from saying that. Something this weekend may have triggered it. Maybe Scotland are having second thoughts about their coaching setup? Maybe they have withdrawn the Glasgow offer to Wilson? Something has kicked off in the background that has enabled Wasps to do this now.
I tend to agree with this PoV, I think something has happened which has caused the club to react as there may potentially be a window of opportunity, which means action now is called for. As much as I like Dai, Steven Vaughan must be looking at results as a barometer of how things really are. Professional sport is a results game, the number of wins are the only true measure. Dai to me, seems battle scarred and is perhaps in need of a rest or some respite. Given that top flight rugby is secured, then the CEO is more than likely thinking we may as well make a change now, rather then enter a lottery in the close season. Michael Cheika anyone? He is working with Sydney Roosters (NRL) on a short term advisory role but is linked with Montpellier, so Europe is perhaps on his radar. The post match pressers would be good value if nothing else.
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Cheika is great until given a mic. Like Lancaster I think he'd perform better as a skills coach behind the scenes rather than a head coach.
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I think I have had enough mouthy Aussie coaches.
Wishing Dai all the best.
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Latest odds from Paddy Power, Cheika at 8-1
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/odds-on-next-wasps-boss-17732461
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Pat Lam 18/1 - you must be having a laugh!
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Latest odds from Paddy Power, Cheika at 8-1
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/odds-on-next-wasps-boss-17732461
He's not on that list, so what's Kinga up to these days? His name was often in the frame in past years.
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Want to wait before I start speculating on a possible replacement, as something just doesn’t seem right here.
This isn’t how clubs have handled ‘dismissals’ or planned replacements. This has to be an unforeseen event which has resulted in the club being unprepared. What I can get my head around is how Cov Telegraph have this story... All I’ve read is that Dai bailed on a press conference and then his car wasn’t in his usual spot. Is the players meeting confirmed, if so where’s that leak come from?
It just seems so odd happening now, even more so without a word from the club or a replacement announced (if one is actually coming). If it’s interim, then it suggests he’ll be back to his usual role in the future, so not a dismissal.
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Latest odds from Paddy Power, Cheika at 8-1
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/odds-on-next-wasps-boss-17732461
He's not on that list, so what's Kinga up to these days? His name was often in the frame in past years.
Brive, I think.
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He's coaching skills but on a part-time basis.
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Kicking coach I believe.
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Yes kicking coach. I'm not sure you can build a profesional life arround this, especially at Brive. Most kicking coaches leave their club to become full-time coaches elsewhere. Teulet, despite he is still the best kicker ever in top14 (with more than 3000 pts), stopped to be a kicking consultant to train the team of his childhood. And I'm not sure that Wilkinson spend all his time to coach Toulon's kickers.
I'm about to bet on Worsley to be honest. Not sure he would be the right man to do the job, but I've got the feeling he can be the selected one.
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I think it may be a combination of a coaching reshuffle and Dai needing/wanting some time away.
He’s taken the past 2 years hard (saying results last year left him in a dark place) and he, more than anyone, deserves the best treatment from the club.
Would love to see him have some time off to enjoy himself and have a break from coaching, then come back in the summer revitalised as DoR with Howley as head coach and Wurzle as assistant head coach.
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The i is reporting that internal sources at the club confirm that the reason is entirely rugby related, so, not health.
Thus, narrowed down to performance on the pitch (results) and the squad.
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The I's take on it:
Dai Young steps back at Wasps after alarming drain of talent and form at Ricoh Arena
Director of rugby has been relieved of duties for 'an interim period' and i understands the change is related solely to rugby matters
Wasps’ director of rugby Dai Young has been relieved of his duties for “an interim period” ahead of his team’s big Premiership derby match at Leicester this Saturday, as mystery surrounds the Welshman’s future at the Coventry-based club.
Young was scheduled to handle Wasps’ pre-match media conference as normal on Monday, but he withdrew without notice or explanation, and the club’s defence coach Ian Costello fronted the session instead.
Wasps issued a short official statement yesterday: “Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period. Lee Blackett will step up to Interim Head Coach. Further announcements will be made in due course.”
The Coventry Telegraph reported a senior management meeting was called at Wasps’ Ricoh Arena stadium on Tuesday morning followed by the club’s players being addressed at the training ground in Broadstreet.
There was no reference to the developments on the club’s website or social-media accounts.
But a well-placed source told i the change is related solely to rugby matters.
Young’s team went into the recent mid-winter Premiership break apparently in good heart after a 30-26 win away to Worcester. But they have lost six of their nine league matches this season and were knocked out at the pool stage of the second-grade European Challenge Cup.
Including last season, Wasps have won 13 and drawn one of their last 46 matches in all competitions.
Young, the 52-year-old former Wales and Lions prop forward, joined the then London club in summer 2011 and fought a successful battle against relegation with a youthful team in his first season.
Wasps moved up the table each year thereafter and topped the Premiership in 2017, only to lose the grand final to Exeter Chiefs in extra time at Twickenham.
Young has yet to win a trophy with the six-times league champions, the club has slumped from being Premiership semi-finalists again in 2018 to eighth place at the end of the last campaign, and there has been an alarming drain of talent in the past two years.
England stars Elliot Daly and Nathan Hughes left last summer, to Saracens and Bristol respectively, while internationals Willie le Roux, Kurtley Beale, Danny Cipriani, James Haskell, Will Stuart, Marty Moore, Joe Simpson, Christian Wade and Michele Campagnaro have also moved on.
They are currently ninth in the Premiership, six points above Leicester, although neither side have to worry about relegation as Saracens are already doomed to that fate.
The 37-year-old backs coach Blackett joined Wasps in 2015 from Championship club Rotherham, where he was the youngest head coach in the top two tiers of English rugby.
And former Wasps scrum-half Rob Howley has been linked with a return as head coach when his betting-related suspension ends this June.
Young told The Rugby Paper last September his current Wasps contract to 2023 would be his last and he was hoping to land an international job after that.
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so, again, apart from a "well placed source" (journo speak for making stuff up!!) there's nothing of any substance in there that hasn't already been discussed on here.
The longer the silence from the club goes on, the more confusing it becomes.
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So there's lots of legal talk about purely rugby results, whilst our results this season have been on the up overall and the club decided to cause all this disruption just 4 days before a big game when they could have done it weeks ago?
Sounds like everyone is still guessing.
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This isnt down to results. I reckon Dai has had enough of being asked to sell a narrative that is failing to he supported by the board. Cash is tight and only so long even the nicest of people can keep a straight face and speak to the media.
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So there's lots of legal talk about purely rugby results, whilst our results this season have been on the up overall and the club decided to cause all this disruption just 4 days before a big game when they could have done it weeks ago?
Sounds like everyone is still guessing.
Everything about this suggests it was sudden. Given the meeting with Vaughn I think it has to be either a decision of Dai's overruled by the board or a board decision not accepted by Dai.
Given the rumours, my guess is that it is related to a new coach signing.
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What if Dai had been asked to take a pay cut and move upstairs to enable the club to sign a new head coach?
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What if Dai had been asked to take a pay cut and move upstairs to enable the club to sign a new head coach?
Surely Dai has a contract until 2023?
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So there's lots of legal talk about purely rugby results, whilst our results this season have been on the up overall and the club decided to cause all this disruption just 4 days before a big game when they could have done it weeks ago?
Sounds like everyone is still guessing.
This is what continues to confuse me about the whole thing
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The whole thing is puzzling but what, to me, is unforgivable is Wasps give the local paper a simple statement (which can be twisted every which way by hack journalists) but issue diddly squat to their paying STHs. Tonight there is a BT On Tour programme from Broadstreet and I would have expected something before that hits the air (albeit it is probably mainly pre-recorded). It is all very strange.
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It reminds me the laste year of Cotter at Montpellier. He was 'invited' to leave the fiels and to become the rugby director. With as a mains mission to 'develop the global rugby project and to search fundings'. Most head coach can't stand the idea to be put in a closet an prefer to leave. But some stay in the club and accept a different role.
I searched for news in all the French medias, but there is nothing more than what we actually know. However, the phrasing is much more like 'Dai has been dimissed' than a personal choice to take a step back on coaching.
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Seeing as it seems to be open season on baseless speculation how about this one...we can't afford to pay Dai / the money has run out so he has walked. Completely unfounded nonsense but maybe the lack of a statement is that they are scrambling to get things in place before announcing something. Anyway, it's back to my dark cell!
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We can all speculate, the media can speculate, but the bottom line, however frustrating it is for us, is that until the club issue a statement we are in the dark. Hope they issue that statement sooner than later.
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Totally in the dark. Every tit-bit of rumour contradicts the other. One thing I do know is that just as we seem to be on something of an upturn we've thrown everything in the air again. What's also interesting is how many fans of other clubs are saying they'd happily take him.
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The respect many supporters at other clubs have Dai speaks volumes.
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I've been waiting to hear what the club say before I make any comments, but it doesn't look like they're in much of a rush.
I will be bitterly disappointed if he has been forced out due to results.
Now more than at any time in the sport, we've seen the consequences of focusing on results above everything else.
I don't know Dai personally and have only ever met him once in passing, however, I fully believe him to be a genuinely good guy of the highest moral fibre and with an integrity that a certain rugby club in London can only dream of.
At this time when the league and our game have been brought into disrepute by a few who focus on results above all else and care not for the spirit of competition or the sport of rugby, I would much rather have a man of honour, such as Dai, leading our club forwards and I wouldn't care whether we're winning or losing rugby games
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With all due respect Wasps I actually disagree with this, especially if the reasoning is solely rugby related.
Unfortunately we are in a results business and our results have steadily been getting worse with the coaches seemingly not having a backup plan as the majority on here have said after recent losses and have been worried about for a few years now and the buck stops with Dai.
Just because Dai is a nice guy and bought tape and supplies out of his own money however many years ago just can’t stack up anymore as a reason to keep him on despite very poor results.
Potentially a little harsh there I know but i strongly believe he needs a change of scenery as someone like Mallinder did, probably also a nice guy.
I wonder constantly what our squad could do under the likes of Baxter and his coaches, we just aren’t at the races since the galacticos have left and to me that’s solely down to coaching.
Of course however Dai still needs to be treated with respect if he is set for a departure and that should be the same with any departing employee.
I am also eager to hear something from the club
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Not much given away on BT Sport tonight as was to be expected. As a Wasps fan since the Sudbury days this has to be one of the saddest chapters in our history. We have no right to be told what's going on, I just hope that Dai is OK and being treated with the respect he deserves. We and the board, who a lot of had probably never heard of Wasps until the move to Cov, all owe him that.
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I am very unsure on all of this. Dai did lead us through some periods of very exciting mrugby, with some superb results- you can't get closer to the title than we got without winning it- a different ref other than JP and the title was ours- but there were two distinct periods where we were pretty conservative, one season prior to the move, one now. The problem with conservative rugby is beyond style, it is simply that it has a ceiling if you are not the best at it, and we never looked like we would be with our personnel. Munster and Chiefs have had little success in Europe of late, whilst EAs circa 2012 failed in all the big games playing pretty conservative stuff, whilst flat track bullying elsewhere. It is safe but rarely gets the big prizes. It is true that SA won a WC with a conservative style, but a fixture list where they had only to beat England, Wales and Japan helped. Wasps have developed a style over 18 months that feels very safety first, which for me limits our potential. I do not know how much of this is Dai, and how much us forced by circumstances.
I will be honest, I don't like our recent style of play. We have looked sharp offensively a small number of times in eighteen months, two games when Searle clicked for forty mins and a couple of recent ones with Jacob playing well and the backs suddenly clicking.The rest of the time when we have been successful, and there are not that many successes, when we have won matches it has not really been through scintillating back play but more about dogged defense, solid scrum and defensive intensity with tries coming from the forwards. Think Chiefs last year- great win but our backs created little, at least in comparison to previous wins.
I am concerned by reports of rifts. We do have a great crop coming through by all accounts, and it slips true that some star signings have not lived up to billing, but the idea put forward in various outlets that Dai has been refused signings is worrying. I hope it is not true, he deserves more.
I don't think the club have handled it well regardless of the actual decisions made. Does anyone agree?
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I agree. We see to many team which change their staff whe things goes really wrong. Maybe I prefer this to be done quietly when there is no emergency at all. We don't know what it is about, but I agree that or today's play is not really good. Finally, thanks to the Sarries... without this affair we would have been fighting at the bottom of the league. By the time where the RFU close the doors to the Championship, I think we must stay in Premiership.
The sad thing (for me) is that I'm experiencing very similar situation with my French team. In Castres, the head coach is a former player who already saved 2 times the club from the proD2, just 3 days before the end. But now, the team is really bad. However, like Dai, Reggiardo is a very nice guy. That's a shame to see those guys without good results.
I strongly hope we'll have more details soon.
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Dismissing Dai due to recent bad results doesn't stack up as we've picked up 12 points in the last 3 league games. Like others I just wish the club would hurry up and make a statement to the supporters.
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I would guess he has not been dismissed or this whole thing would have been done alot more smoothly. There have been signs of frustration between him and new board members of late with the promises made during the move now being broken...training ground...investment in players. That includes holding on to players such as Will Stuart etc. Enough is enough and the silence tells me there are negotiations going on because Dai is so unhappy with the support of the board and his treatment lately that he wants out of his contract.
If he was dismissed a statement would have come by now. This has not been planned.
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Sacking Dai would cost the club a lot of money as they would have to pay off his 2023 contract. Dai resigning due to his re-positioning would suit Wasps management more. I think that's what happened to Nick Kennedy at London Irish. He was moved aside and new coaches brougth in and Kennedy felt he couldn't work under those circumstances... constructive dismissal some might say.
An optimist may suggest that Wasps are following the Glos setup but if they are its been far from seamless. Surely they would have announced a new appointment as well as informing everyone of Dai's interim status in a different role
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I hope this doesn't produce the same situation as when Judas Wade left. The club took a huge amount of flack from trigger happy fans quick to point the finger armed with no facts but a sack load of guesswork, assumptions and gut feel. After the non stop attack it turns out that Wasps weren't legally positioned to make a statement and had themselves been side swiped by the news as quickly as Wade was packing his rucksack.
Its only natural that we'd like to know whats going on and i'm sure it'll come out in the wash but theoretical surmising will get us nowhere. I think i have read over 20 different theories on whats going on, the reality is we'll find out in due course and for now.
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I hope this doesn't produce the same situation as when Judas Wade left. The club took a huge amount of flack from trigger happy fans quick to point the finger armed with no facts but a sack load of guesswork, assumptions and gut feel. After the non stop attack it turns out that Wasps weren't legally positioned to make a statement and had themselves been side swiped by the news as quickly as Wade was packing his rucksack.
Its only natural that we'd like to know whats going on and i'm sure it'll come out in the wash but theoretical surmising will get us nowhere. I think i have read over 20 different theories on whats going on, the reality is we'll find out in due course and for now.
'In due course' does not motivate fans to turn up and watch at games, it does not motivate players to play well and win games, and it does not motivate businesses to sponsor. It does not motivate fans to buy season tickets. There is a huge cost to 'in due course' and, in due course, we will see that unfold. Starting on the weekend.
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I agree mostly Nelly, but I would expect the players know whats going on. Whether that translates into anything either positive or negative, we'll see.
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'In due course' does not motivate fans to turn up and watch at games, it does not motivate players to play well and win games, and it does not motivate businesses to sponsor. It does not motivate fans to buy season tickets. There is a huge cost to 'in due course' and, in due course, we will see that unfold. Starting on the weekend.
The problem is legal niceties trump commercially advantageous strategies and timings. When it comes to professional sport the paying customer is just one part of a complex picture. Employment law is not to be trifled with. Players will not be motivated to play for an employer that rushes to defend itself in the press without due regard to the needs of the employee either.
It really is time that us fans realise we are rarely number 1 priority in the business of sport. I'm sure no-one at the club is enjoying reading the endless speculation on here and elsewhere. But sometimes silence is all the club can do to avoid getting themselves in to serious and expensive hot water.
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But sometimes silence is all the club can do to avoid getting themselves in to serious and expensive hot water.
Whilst agreeing with everyone suggesting that all we have is guesswork and the not v useful press reports, the concern is that any personal or medical or similar reason for a step back would be very unlikely to involve legal issues such that no comment is possible, even after several days
It would appear to only leave the more awkward issues/positions as widely discussed on this topic. They are the ones where legal issues might require the club to be careful.
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I hope this doesn't produce the same situation as when Judas Wade left. The club took a huge amount of flack from trigger happy fans quick to point the finger armed with no facts but a sack load of guesswork, assumptions and gut feel. After the non stop attack it turns out that Wasps weren't legally positioned to make a statement and had themselves been side swiped by the news as quickly as Wade was packing his rucksack.
Its only natural that we'd like to know whats going on and i'm sure it'll come out in the wash but theoretical surmising will get us nowhere. I think i have read over 20 different theories on whats going on, the reality is we'll find out in due course and for now.
'In due course' does not motivate fans to turn up and watch at games, it does not motivate players to play well and win games, and it does not motivate businesses to sponsor. It does not motivate fans to buy season tickets. There is a huge cost to 'in due course' and, in due course, we will see that unfold. Starting on the weekend.
Your not honestly saying that a due course statement, less than 3 days old is an any way going to affect commercials in any way are you? Is a fan that was planning to go this weekend suddenly going to stop supporting the team because they don't have the clarity of what is going on this week behind closed doors or that Voda are going to pull the plug or potentials will stay clear. We haven't a clue whats been said to the players, your hung on a media strapline. We haven't just been caught breaking the salary cap.
Seriously Nelly..with respect thats a huge over reaction.
Mike..not insinuating its legal issues, merely a previous situation of lack of clarity.
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As my first post I'd just like to say whatever happens Dai will always have my support and respect.
My guess is that the lack of clarity is because whatever the the issue is it hasn't been fully resolved between Dai and the club and they and/or their legal teams are still negotiating.
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Whether or not a fan chooses to go to the game this weekend has no commercial bearing on Wasps whatsoever as the game's at Welford Rd.
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Mike..not insinuating its legal issues, merely a previous situation of lack of clarity.
Hopefully that's the case....but.....not saying anything tends to suggest more complex issues?
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After a disagreement with the direction of the board it's just taking time to negotiate a parting of ways. Sad. But I'm confident that's the situation.
When Dai was asked to get behined the move he made lots of promises to fans and players that initially seemed achievable. He is being asked to maintain this enthusiasm whilst having his hands tied with transfers and the much needed expansion of the coaching team which is more and more beginning to reflect badly on him as the performances begin to reflect the disarray behined the scenes. Only so long could this go on before it was going to come to a head.
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And suddenly, rumours appear:
https://www.hugerugby.news/premiership/young-eying-up-new-job/
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He is being asked to maintain this enthusiasm whilst having his hands tied with transfers and the much needed expansion of the coaching team which is more and more beginning to reflect badly on him as the performances begin to reflect the disarray behined the scenes. Only so long could this go on before it was going to come to a head.
Got any evidence for that?
It always puzzles me when people paint the board as a group of avaricious fools who care nothing for the success of the team.
They have more invested in this club's success than any of us. None more so than Derek who has invested staggeringly vast amounts of his own money into it with little in the way of return.
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Eight pages of virtually nowt. A few words that generated so much!
David's link sounds the most plausible though but could just be more of the same.
With a live match coming up in less than 2 days you have to hope the board say something or else the players and coaches are going to get hammered by BT, journalists and fans. It is not fair on them.
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And suddenly, rumours appear:
https://www.hugerugby.news/premiership/young-eying-up-new-job/
Interesting. Whilst still no more accurate than any of the other rumours it certainly paints a slightly different picture.
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After a disagreement with the direction of the board it's just taking time to negotiate a parting of ways. Sad. But I'm confident that's the situation.
When Dai was asked to get behined the move he made lots of promises to fans and players that initially seemed achievable. He is being asked to maintain this enthusiasm whilst having his hands tied with transfers and the much needed expansion of the coaching team which is more and more beginning to reflect badly on him as the performances begin to reflect the disarray behined the scenes. Only so long could this go on before it was going to come to a head.
This is one of the 20 theories but I also see no evidence of this. Dai has been bankrolled with some of the biggest names out there and even recently added Sops to the team on a huge salary. It has been suggested by many that recruitment has not been up to snuff, that comes down to Dai, not the board. Get recruitment right and your half there, the other half required is the coaching.
I'm a Dai fan but I can't buy empty into statements like that....sorry.
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And suddenly, rumours appear:
https://www.hugerugby.news/premiership/young-eying-up-new-job/
Interesting. Whilst still no more accurate than any of the other rumours it certainly paints a slightly different picture.
...a regurgitation of yesterdays rugbypass article with some words changed around. It has as much validity as me putting up an article saying Dai was too pasty and went to Turkey for a few weeks...
Pretty much.
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He is being asked to maintain this
Got any evidence for that?
It always puzzles me when people paint the board as a group of avaricious fools who care nothing for the success of the team.
They have more invested in this club's success than any of us. None more so than Derek who has invested staggeringly vast amounts of his own money into it with little in the way of return.
I agree I am not saying the board are in the wrong. I am only saying I can see this having been the case and the two views have come to blows. Tightening of the purse strings is a wise idea. I dont for a second believe they want anything but the best thing for Wasps future.
It just all seems sudden and unplanned so I cant see it being anything different. Only a theory.
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"It is unknown ... if Young became available ..... it would seem likely ..... it would appear ....".
What a load of crap. Idle speculation dressed as news.
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Dai to Ospreys - totally based on Twitter noise and what people would like to see happen, lazy journalism.
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The tradition is that, when there is a complete absence of facts, the only possible conclusion is that person concerned is...
“...off to Bristol”
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That's why I don't understand why clubs want to hide obvious things. This always leads to many rumours. Of course medias love it, but we will finally now what's as behind this suprinsing change. When I see this, my first thought is that Wasps is a very lucky team. Fan had to support the big trip from London to Coventry, this (too) big and empty ugly Ricoh Arena, and now Dai is taking a step back without explanation.
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TT has liked the following from nick Mullins on twitter, would suggest to me that dai is gone for good:
"Been thinking about this for a couple of days. Coaches come & go, it’s the nature of the business. But when they write the history of Wasps, Dai Young deserves a chapter, maybe two, all to himself. The best of men, who threw his life into the club."
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Or he likes the sentiment of dai being a good guy?
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Or he likes the sentiment of dai being a good guy?
That was my take on it.
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If we suppose it's not a health thing I just can't see that he isn't gone for good. No-one steps away on an "interim" basis. Whilst we have no idea why he has gone, gone he has. The delay is just guff whilst the legals are agreed. In my opinion.
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Spot on Shugs.
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It would definitely appear to be the case.
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If we suppose it's not a health thing I just can't see that he isn't gone for good. No-one steps away on an "interim" basis. Whilst we have no idea why he has gone, gone he has. The delay is just guff whilst the legals are agreed. In my opinion.
Indeed. What circumstances that included a sudden step down, briefings to players, that couldn't be made public straight away and seem to require legals could only be "interim"?
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Wonder if we’ll see something official following the team announcement. Clearly Lee will be interviewed before the game and the obvious question will be asked about what’s going on with Dai.
Unfair on Lee to have to bat that back, let alone the supporters - It’s almost like Wasps have taken a leaf from the Saracens PR Team!
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Wonder if we’ll see something official following the team announcement. Clearly Lee will be interviewed before the game and the obvious question will be asked about what’s going on with Dai.
Unfair on Lee to have to bat that back, let alone the supporters - It’s almost like Wasps have taken a leaf from the Saracens PR Team!
On the contrary, Sarries PR is always on point. They were regularly communicating throughout the saga, even if with only basically empty statements to confirm what was being reported elsewhere. Whereas Wasps have been embarrassingly amateur about this whole sorry episode.
If it turns out like we all seem to think it is a real shame. Dai deserved so much better
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Wonder if we’ll see something official following the team announcement. Clearly Lee will be interviewed before the game and the obvious question will be asked about what’s going on with Dai.
Unfair on Lee to have to bat that back, let alone the supporters - It’s almost like Wasps have taken a leaf from the Saracens PR Team!
On the contrary, Sarries PR is always on point. They were regularly communicating throughout the saga, even if with only basically empty statements to confirm what was being reported elsewhere. Whereas Wasps have been embarrassingly amateur about this whole sorry episode.
If it turns out like we all seem to think it is a real shame. Dai deserved so much better
I'll take your contrary and raise you two. Go to the Sarries board and remind yourself of the pleading from fans for some sort of statement..And when they did arrive they were mostly lies, so not sure how they are 'on point'.
Dai deserved much better than what?...you don't know whats happened. Anything could have transpired, if he walked away do Wasps deserve much better?
It was only yesterday that everyone was calling for Dai to be gone and calling the club out for doing nothing to prevent our malaise..now everyone is sad for what that don't know about Dai. It opitimises fickle.
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Wonder if we’ll see something official following the team announcement. Clearly Lee will be interviewed before the game and the obvious question will be asked about what’s going on with Dai.
Unfair on Lee to have to bat that back, let alone the supporters - It’s almost like Wasps have taken a leaf from the Saracens PR Team!
On the contrary, Sarries PR is always on point. They were regularly communicating throughout the saga, even if with only basically empty statements to confirm what was being reported elsewhere. Whereas Wasps have been embarrassingly amateur about this whole sorry episode.
If it turns out like we all seem to think it is a real shame. Dai deserved so much better
I'll take your contrary and raise you two. Go to the Sarries board and remind yourself of the pleading from fans for some sort of statement..And when they did arrive they were mostly lies, so not sure how they are 'on point'.
Dai deserved much better than what?...you don't know whats happened. Anything could have transpired, if he walked away do Wasps deserve much better?
It was only yesterday that everyone was calling for Dai to be gone and calling the club out for doing nothing to prevent our malaise..now everyone is sad for what that don't know about Dai. It opitimises fickle.
Hence the "if", but don't get off your ranty hobby horse for that, old boy
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What does IF represent in the 20 theories that are in place in this thread.
People always call out rants when they make baseless and factually incorrect statements for the sake of just saying something, your not the first, so no worries..old boy.
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If i’m honest I think we both could do with a change. Best of luck to Dai seems like a total gentleman. Let’s hope there’s an amicable conclusion/outcome whatever that may be.
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Andy Goode on BT suggesting Dai is on the way out.
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If i’m honest I think we both could do with a change. Best of luck to Dai seems like a total gentleman. Let’s hope there’s an amicable conclusion/outcome whatever that may be.
Hear, hear!
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On telly both Blackett and Lol basically saying Dai is gone. Lol saying statement in the next couple of days. About time.
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On telly both Blackett and Lol basically saying Dai is gone. Lol saying statement in the next couple of days. About time.
This was confirmed by someone on facebook, who spoke to Dai, post match.
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The key question is why, and at the initiation of whom? Was that forthcoming from Dai?
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Having read all the previous posts from, I am sure, much wiser supporters, I still feel that if Wasps would like my £xxx for next year they had better get their act in order. It is fact that if Wasps would like my family (6) to continue to support and pay them then a lot more attention should be paid to communication with STH. I am not an idiot, I pay towards your wages.
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With respect Arley i'd say that the matters happening behind the scenes are more important than your wage contributions just now.
Whilst your important as a supporter don't class yourself as a stakeholder and someone that has to be consulted on all matters. The club arent keeping quiet because they want too...a bit of common sense is required.
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With respect Arley i'd say that the matters happening behind the scenes are more important than your wage contributions just now.
Whilst your important as a supporter don't class yourself as a stakeholder and someone that has to be consulted on all matters. The club arent keeping quiet because they want too...a bit of common sense is required.
Common sense seems to be lacking at the Ricoh at the moment.The way this has been handled is quite baffling.
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Totally agree Bigad82, it has been a shambles in how it came out and is still out without explanation.
I’m not completely convinced of the Legal angle that others are stating on here.... why has that not been the case in any other ‘parting of the ways’ situation between a manager and club I can think of?
Granted I don’t know all the facts and should wait for them to come out but it’s hard to do that! To have it announced by the Coventry Telegraphy is laughable!!!!
I hope I am proven wrong in this statement with some revelation as to why the club take days to comment on the ‘change’ of manager.
The only thing that would soften this blow is that if the club had identified a key target to replace Dai who was suddenly available or only available for a short time and didn’t want to miss out on them like we did Shaun Edwards or Borthwick. I am a Dai fan and would have stuck with him providing there was a coaching overhaul. However, that’s seemingly now not an option, so I hope we have a brilliant replacement coming in!!
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I can see how it happened, having seen something similar where I used to work.
The board make a decision on a change of direction. Senior manager thinks this wil ruin something that is happening, goes into meeting with board to sort it out and next thing we see is him being escorted off-site by the security officers. It took a week before Board made official announcement to rest of employees, by which time rumours were all over the company.
However to return to Wasps - wonder how this will affect the Howley situation. I assume that Dai being here was part of the attraction?