Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on July 29, 2022, 10:34:47 AM
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90 minutes in and it is cutting up quite badly where close action takes place but looks fast running.
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Bit of a worry. There is literally no time for mitigating action.
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Bit of a worry. There is literally no time for mitigating action.
No and another hour on it is looking very patchy in places too.
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Jeez somebody scored a try and lumps came up.
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Must admit it’s whetting my appetite for the new season though. Looks a good crowd there as well.
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Must admit it’s whetting my appetite for the new season though. Looks a good crowd there as well.
Not the England performance, surely?! :(
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No, wasn’t great was it. Although some of those Samoans were brutal.
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Has Coventry been particularly wet in recent weeks?
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Has Coventry been particularly wet in recent weeks?
Absolutely not. Last week was particularly hot - this week has been more reasonable with the odd welcome shower.
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Interesting that we applied for tickets for todays matches in the ballot, and were not successful, but watching on the TV there were plenty of empty seats.
Anyway off to Brum tomorrow to watch the Gymnastics.
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Hope you all have a marvellous time :D
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Get ready for complaints from CCFC about the playing surface. It will unfortunately be warranted. Their first home match is next weekend and from above sections look to have little grass left.
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It's been played on virtually non-stop tho', hasn't it? True, it is a trifle bald in places.
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It's been played on virtually non-stop tho', hasn't it? True, it is a trifle bald in places.
And will be tomorrow.
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Get ready for complaints from CCFC about the playing surface. It will unfortunately be warranted. Their first home match is next weekend and from above sections look to have little grass left.
When you consider what soccer and rugby grounds in the 80s were like, there is nothing to complain about today on even the worst of grounds.
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Get ready for complaints from CCFC about the playing surface. It will unfortunately be warranted. Their first home match is next weekend and from above sections look to have little grass left.
When you consider what soccer and rugby grounds in the 80s were like, there is nothing to complain about today on even the worst of grounds.
But it is not the 80s and we have to provide the round ball experts with a playable pitch. If we ever get rain it will be a mud track.
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Always remember when we left Adams Park.
Then Reading WFC started using Adams Park and were raving about how good the pitch was, at the same time WWFC were were saying it was a good thing we lwft because we ruined the pitch.
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Looks fine for rugby. Not too fussed about anything else.
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Nice.
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Nice.
Doesn't do the damage and lack of grass growth justice. During the finals games it was obvious that the structure was failing as substantial chunks flew up with virtually every step in a run. The corners looked damp. It is now August so not too long left to get rooted growth to last into the autumn/winter. We (supporters) may not be concerned about a footy pitch but we are responsible for the provision of a decent surface. The grounds staff have got their work cut out.
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Just 6 days before CCFC play their first match at the CBS Arena. Not even a week left.
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Just 6 days before CCFC play their first match at the CBS Arena. Not even a week left.
My point.
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Are we responsible for providing a top notch surface? Surely if the football club want it improving they could contribute to that end?
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Are we responsible for providing a top notch surface? Surely if the football club want it improving they could contribute to that end?
I think you may find it is Wasps responsibility.
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Are we responsible for providing a top notch surface? Surely if the football club want it improving they could contribute to that end?
I think that probably falls within Wasps' obligations as landlord. We do have responsibilities as the owner of the stadium, and CCFC would not be unreasonable to hold Wasps to account if the playing surface is not to an acceptable standard. Wasps can ill afford to lose the regular income that CCFC provide, however small.
Wasps themselves will be wanting a decent playing surface next month, and if it was in a poor state following the Commonwealth Games with 14 players at a time, and little physical contest at scrums, rucks and mauls, then it is unlikely to improve with 15 a side, 8 man scrums and driving mauls.
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I’m sure we are responsible. I’m not altogether sure we’ve negotiated and busting great deal with the football club.
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I’m sure we are responsible. I’m not altogether sure we’ve negotiated and busting great deal with the football club.
I imagine we haven't but I suppose getting the football club back was probably a PR exercise that was too great to ignore
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Pitch inspection by senior referee on Saturday. Game could be called off, ? Compensation due?
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Yup - See Thread Oh Dear Part 2
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Pitch inspection by senior referee on Saturday. Game could be called off, ? Compensation due?
Just knock it off the vast amount of legal fees incurred by repeated, spurious legal challenges.
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Pitch inspection by senior referee on Saturday. Game could be called off, ? Compensation due?
Just knock it off the vast amount of legal fees incurred by repeated, spurious legal challenges.
Not wanting to start a new stupid thread but I understood that the fees for the lost case(s) may not have been paid off. Maybe waved to get them back though.
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Player safety? Not being funny but if you can play 7’s on it it’s safe for football.
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Wasps respond to Coventry City concerns over CBS Arena pitch
Report from Jake Bayliss, Football Trends Writer (whatever that may be ???), Coventry Telegraph.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-wasps-pitch-concerns-24685400 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-wasps-pitch-concerns-24685400)
Doesn't say much.
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its ccfc and SISU playing politics, I was at the 7s and whilst the pitch didn't look great it isn't dangerous.
I can understand they may not be happy with the condition but they are over egging it.
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It will be down to an independent football referee to decide if it is unsafe for football. It looks, at a minimum, to be unsuitable for the style of football CCFC play so probably not unexpected for Robins to suggest it is unsafe. I think we will know the position by about 18:15.
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Apparently it looks a lot better today, it is being inspected as I type.
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Apparently it looks a lot better today, it is being inspected as I type.
It's off
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Match is off, pictures look appalling, sounds as if wasps will be held to account
https://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/2022/august/news-coventry-city-versus-rotherham-united-game-postponed/
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https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1555972974708129792?t=2_hxzOzJc_5bp1GfoTyHZA&s=08
Seems that Birmingham 2022 had an exclusive hire of the entire complex until 14th August, but agreed to wave this as CCFC wanted to play.
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Ve - rrry interesting. I wonder where that leaves us. And CCFC of course.
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https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1555972974708129792?t=2_hxzOzJc_5bp1GfoTyHZA&s=08
Seems that Birmingham 2022 had an exclusive hire of the entire complex until 14th August, but agreed to wave this as CCFC wanted to play.
So CCFC are playing the victim despite actually having been granted special privileges?
No surprise there. When will the lawyers letters arrive I wonder...
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Steven Vaughan 10 March 2021
“So there’s two things we’re going to be doing, firstly we’re going to be investing heavily in the maintenance of the pitch.”
“We’re going to be investing in doubling up our lights. We’re going to be doubling up on the amount of staff on there as well.”
“And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
Sounds like a commitment that hasn’t been delivered.
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https://twitter.com/Julie76671114/status/1556148929271451650/photo/1
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Steven Vaughan 10 March 2021
“So there’s two things we’re going to be doing, firstly we’re going to be investing heavily in the maintenance of the pitch.”
“We’re going to be investing in doubling up our lights. We’re going to be doubling up on the amount of staff on there as well.”
“And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
Sounds like a commitment that hasn’t been delivered.
And here is the problem with not knowing all the facts. Does anyone know if all that was done (obviously not the re turfing which would need to be end of season anyway)?
I mean, given the weather that could have been done & still the pitch wasn't good enough?
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https://www.coventrybuildingsocietyarena.co.uk/careers-work-with-us/grounds-person-full-time/
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https://www.coventrybuildingsocietyarena.co.uk/careers-work-with-us/grounds-person-full-time/
And did they is the question?
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Given the advert is still alive, it looks like they're still hiring.
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Not good then
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Steven Vaughan 10 March 2021
“So there’s two things we’re going to be doing, firstly we’re going to be investing heavily in the maintenance of the pitch.”
“We’re going to be investing in doubling up our lights. We’re going to be doubling up on the amount of staff on there as well.”
“And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
Sounds like a commitment that hasn’t been delivered.
What commitment has not been delivered the period after the sevens was not due to finish until 14/08/22 therefore there would have been more time to repair pitch and had a level of regrowth. But although not mentioned in any report this was cut short at the bequest of CCFC. I cannot see how Wasps can be held culpable for CCFC's change of plans but then again if looking through sky blue coloured glasses Wasps are guilty of everything. ;D
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Looking at the photos of the pitch, I doubt is their match will be played on Wednesday eveing either.
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Looking at the photos of the pitch, I doubt is their match will be played on Wednesday eveing either.
Excellent news - gives the pitch more time to rest
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Steven Vaughan 10 March 2021
“So there’s two things we’re going to be doing, firstly we’re going to be investing heavily in the maintenance of the pitch.”
“We’re going to be investing in doubling up our lights. We’re going to be doubling up on the amount of staff on there as well.”
“And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
Sounds like a commitment that hasn’t been delivered.
What commitment has not been delivered the period after the sevens was not due to finish until 14/08/22 therefore there would have been more time to repair pitch and had a level of regrowth. But although not mentioned in any report this was cut short at the bequest of CCFC. I cannot see how Wasps can be held culpable for CCFC's change of plans but then again if looking through sky blue coloured glasses Wasps are guilty of everything. ;D
The commitment to provide a playing surface of a suitable standard, how that was achieved was up to Wasps. The CWG doesn’t alter that commitment. Also, the commitment to lay a new pitch before the start of this football season. Again, how that was to be achieved was up to Wasps. CCFC hasn’t changed plans, other than the first match at home was pushed to Sunday instead of Saturday.
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Good spot Marley, and look at the date:
Grounds Person - Full Time
23 Feb 2022
Job Title: Grounds Person
Reports To: Grounds Manager
Direct Report: None
Location: Coventry Building Society Arena. Ability to work at Wasps Elite Performance & Innovation Centre, Henley in Arden on occasions.
Working Pattern: 40 hours per week (30 minutes unpaid lunch each day)/full time/five days in seven working around major event days.
Term: Permanent Full Time
Start: As soon as possible
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The commitment to provide a playing surface of a suitable standard, how that was achieved was up to Wasps. The CWG doesn’t alter that commitment
Totally agree with you there.
Also, the commitment to lay a new pitch before the start of this football season
Where have you seen that comittment?
The comments posted on here say "And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
It doesn't say when that would be & clearly given the CWG & the Footie season are overlapping it would never have been practical anyway.
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Steven Vaughan 10 March 2021
“So there’s two things we’re going to be doing, firstly we’re going to be investing heavily in the maintenance of the pitch.”
“We’re going to be investing in doubling up our lights. We’re going to be doubling up on the amount of staff on there as well.”
“And after the first season of Coventry City being here and the Commonwealth Games, we’re going to be laying an entirely brand-new pitch again.”
Sounds like a commitment that hasn’t been delivered.
What commitment has not been delivered the period after the sevens was not due to finish until 14/08/22 therefore there would have been more time to repair pitch and had a level of regrowth. But although not mentioned in any report this was cut short at the bequest of CCFC. I cannot see how Wasps can be held culpable for CCFC's change of plans but then again if looking through sky blue coloured glasses Wasps are guilty of everything. ;D
The commitment to provide a playing surface of a suitable standard, how that was achieved was up to Wasps. The CWG doesn’t alter that commitment. Also, the commitment to lay a new pitch before the start of this football season. Again, how that was to be achieved was up to Wasps. CCFC hasn’t changed plans, other than the first match at home was pushed to Sunday instead of Saturday.
Sorry maybe its because I have my Wasps glasses on but where does it actually say " the commitment to lay a new pitch before the start of this football season." it just says after CWG but no date! (slightly pedantic) the fixture dates for the football came out a long time after the deal was done for the CWG and they had contractual rights for the stadium upto 14/08/22 therefore the contract was adjusted to accomodate CCFC. There are always going to be problems having CCFC as tenants and sometimes the financial gain will seem to not be worth the hassle. The money is of course the only benefit and extremely needed but I feel with some of the retoric coming from SBT some leadership within CCFC is needed or it could all end in tears yet again. ;D
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Wednesdays match switched to Burton.
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https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps-group-statement-regarding-arena-pitch-stephen-vaughan-group-chief-executive-officer/
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https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps-group-statement-regarding-arena-pitch-stephen-vaughan-group-chief-executive-officer/
Got there first thanks for posting. I sense some anger there.
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Apols- posted on other thread. Yes, relationships appear strained. I’m afraid, with the set up at CCFC it was always a case of when rather than if. They are just not people you can do business with.
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Wasps Group statement regarding Arena pitch – Stephen Vaughan, Group Chief Executive Officer
Date: 9 Aug 2022
Wasps Group statement regarding Arena pitch – Stephen Vaughan, Group Chief Executive Officer
“We were saddened to see that information and stories have been put out in the press without our prior knowledge, and this message has been relayed to the football club.
“In May we informed CCFC that we would not be relaying the pitch. No objection was raised to that course of action then or at any other time.
“The contract to host events for the Commonwealth Games was agreed and signed before CCFC committed to return to play their games at the Arena. They were fully aware of the timetable of events. We were advised that a number of games should be played away from home at the start of the football season to allow sufficient time for the pitch to be prepared, but we were informed by CCFC that this was not possible.
“Sixty-five Rugby 7’s matches were played at the Arena in three days and a pitch, new or established, could not withstand that amount of wear and tear, and then be in pristine condition a week later, regardless of the efforts of the ground staff.
“Maintaining a pitch with two sports on it is always a challenge, so the recent unique set of circumstances has been particularly difficult and has naturally put the pitch under enormous strain.
“The business has a number of priorities to deal with. Despite what some may think, we want CCFC to play all their home games here, and it benefits no-one when there are issues such as this played out in public with incorrect or missing information.
“Tomorrow’s Carabao Cup game was moved from the Arena without a further pitch inspection, which is the prerogative of the football club, but I hope they and the officials feel they are able to play next week’s home game here at the Arena.
“We have agreed that an independent agronomist selected by the EFL can come to the Arena and carry out their own inspection of the pitch. We hope they feel it is able to be played on and I know, as professionals, they are aware and understand the circumstances surrounding the pitch recently.
“It is extremely disappointing to, yet again, be defending ourselves against rumour and accusation, particularly as it’s the supporters of CCFC and Wasps who are having to deal with the fallout. We won’t be getting involved in a protracted, public discussion about this, which serves no-one’s interest, but felt we needed to ensure people had the correct information."
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Ouch. Sounds like Coventry will be having to shut up or sod off quite soon. Birmingham isn't too far I hear. Northampton not too far away either, but either way this sounds strained, and when things get strained the tenants move on. If I were CCFC, I would grumble, take the Hugh ground, and then shut up pdq.
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Ouch. Sounds like Coventry will be having to shut up or sod off quite soon. Birmingham isn't too far I hear. Northampton not too far away either, but either way this sounds strained, and when things get strained the tenants move on. If I were CCFC, I would grumble, take the Hugh ground, and then shut up pdq.
The Hugh Ground - that's in Wolverhampton, isn't it?
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Ouch. Sounds like Coventry will be having to shut up or sod off quite soon. Birmingham isn't too far I hear. Northampton not too far away either, but either way this sounds strained, and when things get strained the
tenants move on. If I were CCFC, I would grumble, take the Hugh ground, and then shut up pdq.
That’s exactly what they’ll do possibly along with a stab at some compo. Renting from us suits their model.
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;D
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An interesting and carefully worded statement. 7s tournaments do not appear to have caused that much pitch damage elsewhere in the UK in the past. Will be interesting to see what, if any, response the football club make - if no response that would be quite telling.
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I suspect that even now they are busy covering their own backs.
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I suspect that even now they are busy covering their own backs.
Like this?
Attachment removed - please remember this is a family friendly forum.
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OMG! (Whirling Dervish looks almost attractive after that!!)
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Nothing wrong with a troupe of Whirling Dervishes.
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That was once my preferred style of 'dancing'.
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Excellent
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Very bad news to see the Sky Blues were smashed last night by Bristol City, playing at Burton. Coventry City clearly have bigger worries with this season’s performances than just the CBSA pitch.
As a young Coventrian, I felt great pride in watching the Sky Blues progress from the 3rd to the 2nd to the 1st Division, so I can imagine how disappointed the current fans must feel not to have been able to cheer on the team at the CBS Arena so far this season. Clearly a combination of several unfortunate factors, but I do have faith in the owners to resolve the current pitch issues to everybody’s satisfaction. For what it’s worth, I’m still hoping Coventry City can get promotion to the Premiership and fill the Arena week in week out.
But as a Wasps fan too, I’m going to put a bet on that we finish Top 6 and at this stage of the year I can’t see why that would be out reach.
I’ve found in life it’s better to collaborate than live in constant confrontation.
Maybe this post will be too positive for most - but given my recent health issues, I’d hate to snuff it and not to have aired my views on this.
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Thanks for that Rugby in the Blood, it's in everyone's interest for both teams to thrive.
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Plus 1
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Very bad news to see the Sky Blues were smashed last night by Bristol City, playing at Burton. Coventry City clearly have bigger worries with this season’s performances than just the CBSA pitch.
As a young Coventrian, I felt great pride in watching the Sky Blues progress from the 3rd to the 2nd to the 1st Division, so I can imagine how disappointed the current fans must feel not to have been able to cheer on the team at the CBS Arena so far this season. Clearly a combination of several unfortunate factors, but I do have faith in the owners to resolve the current pitch issues to everybody’s satisfaction. For what it’s worth, I’m still hoping Coventry City can get promotion to the Premiership and fill the Arena week in week out.
But as a Wasps fan too, I’m going to put a bet on that we finish Top 6 and at this stage of the year I can’t see why that would be out reach.
I’ve found in life it’s better to collaborate than live in constant confrontation.
Maybe this post will be too positive for most - but given my recent health issues, I’d hate to snuff it and not to have aired my views on this.
Sorry to hear about your health issues.
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Has anyone seen ccfc's response to Wasps pitch statement?
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is there one?
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Might as well chip in on this one as well now I've registered...
I can't see how Wasps have done anything wrong at all in this scenario. Yes, it isn't ideal, and the loss of revenue from the fan footfall in the stadium is probably at the wrong time, but:
* Wasps own the arena
* Wasps agreed the contract with the CG while CCFC were absent
* Wasps informed CCFC of the change of plan re: re-laying the pitch earlier in the year
Pretty sure all of those are inarguable. I don't know the ins-and-outs of the EFL scheduling, but I assume that CCFC will have petitioned them for a run of away games until post-Aug 14th (when the exclusivity for the CG expires). Why this would not have been granted is beyond me - there is precedent, given the Premier League did just this for Tottenham when they were moving home.
As I said, not ideal, but the spin being churned out by SISU and repeated ad nauseam by a small (but vocal) number of CCFC fans is purely designed to further their own agenda.
For the record, I'm a lifelong Sky Blues fan. SISU was, and remains, the worst thing to have happened to the club in my lifetime. Some fans seem to have short memories as far as they are concerned.
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Might as well chip in on this one as well now I've registered...
I can't see how Wasps have done anything wrong at all in this scenario. Yes, it isn't ideal, and the loss of revenue from the fan footfall in the stadium is probably at the wrong time, but:
* Wasps own the arena
* Wasps agreed the contract with the CG while CCFC were absent
* Wasps informed CCFC of the change of plan re: re-laying the pitch earlier in the year
Pretty sure all of those are inarguable. I don't know the ins-and-outs of the EFL scheduling, but I assume that CCFC will have petitioned them for a run of away games until post-Aug 14th (when the exclusivity for the CG expires). Why this would not have been granted is beyond me - there is precedent, given the Premier League did just this for Tottenham when they were moving home.
As I said, not ideal, but the spin being churned out by SISU and repeated ad nauseam by a small (but vocal) number of CCFC fans is purely designed to further their own agenda.
For the record, I'm a lifelong Sky Blues fan. SISU was, and remains, the worst thing to have happened to the club in my lifetime. Some fans seem to have short memories as far as they are concerned.
You are probably not alone in your thinking!!!
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For the record, I'm a lifelong Sky Blues fan. SISU was, and remains, the worst thing to have happened to the club in my lifetime. Some fans seem to have short memories as far as they are concerned.
Same. Fan of the Sky Blues for over 50 years. Wasps fan for over 30 years.
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They will probably be up in arms in October as well, as OZ play Scotland in the RLWC on the 21st. at the CBSA.
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I see on Twitter that CCFC have been forced to postpone the scheduled fixture at the CBSA on Tuesday against Wigan.
The independent agronomist has found the pitch to still be unplayable, apparently. Far cry from the old "jumpers for goalposts" days, eh?
Now, this is outside of the CG exclusivity, and some CCFC fans are (understandably) upset about the postponement, and there are more anti-Wasps cries.
My question to the CCFC fans is this: would you rather a temporary delay to home fixtures at the start of the season, folllowed by completion of the rest at home in Coventry, OR would you prefer to fulfil all scheduled fixtures at "home" in Northampton or Birmingham?
My suspicion is the former, but there is some serious myopia happening.
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I assume that unlike gardens there is no restriction on the groundstaff watering the pitch.
Two weeks on from the 7s adequate repairs should have been possible. Do we ever learn what make it unusable by the fall over merchants?
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I believe businesses and commercial use are excluded and in any case Severn Trent don’t have a ban. I’ve no idea as to the criteria - we do need to get this right.
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Hosepipe bans apply to domestic users, not commercial users.
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Hosepipe bans apply to domestic users, not commercial users.
Well aware of that but locally there may have been restrictions. Geez.
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Blimey, I was only trying to be helpful. You had assumed and Shugs had believed.
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Tuesdays home match postponed due to unfavourable independent agronomists report. That justifies the switch to Burton. No idea when I’m likely to get to a home game., really fed up.
This could get expensive.
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Understand your sentiments SBS. Must be frustrating at the start of the season but better a postponement than a move of venue. At some point in the future you’ll have a bonus of a midweek game when you thought you didn’t have one. The pitch will get sorted.
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Understand your sentiments SBS. Must be frustrating at the start of the season but better a postponement than a move of venue. At some point in the future you’ll have a bonus of a midweek game when you thought you didn’t have one. The pitch will get sorted.
Trouble is, when? A wet Wednesday with reduced crowd. The team will be suffering with reduced activity now and overload later in the season. And no end in sight as yet.
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But you may also have players back fit. Swings and roundabouts.
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What I find difficult to understand is that both Wasps and CCFC seemed to be aware that there could be problems with the pitch post CWG. Yet, there wasn't any apparent flexibility regarding early season Sky Blue home games. All I've seen is CCFC saying it was 'impossible' (in SV's statement, I think) to play the games away instead of home during this difficult time. Why?
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Ross,
There’s comment in of the threads saying EFL turned down a request for a series of away games at the start of the season.
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Ross,
There’s comment in of the threads saying EFL turned down a request for a series of away games at the start of the season.
Yes saw this too. Looks like EFL were the problem making such a change. Mind you probably suited the fall over merchants.
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Ross,
There’s comment in of the threads saying EFL turned down a request for a series of away games at the start of the season.
Why did the EFL essentially trash their own product? Surely there must be precedence for this? Or are they just using it to show the 'importance' of primacy of tenure?
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Ross,
There’s comment in of the threads saying EFL turned down a request for a series of away games at the start of the season.
Why did the EFL essentially trash their own product? Surely there must be precedence for this? Or are they just using it to show the 'importance' of primacy of tenure?
Wouldn't surprise me if it was you last point.
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Wasn't it said that the commonwealth games had exclusive access to the arena until 14th August?
By my reckoning, that's tomorrow.
Assuming that is correct, then have Wasps actually had any access to address issues with the pitch properly yet?
It may be the pitch was in a complete state when we handed it over to the CW games, but it may also be that it was fine at that point and has gotten significantly worse since, with only minimal repair work being performed by the CW games staff.
If the Wasps ground staff don't get full access until tomorrow/Monday then surely our hands are still tied
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Wasn't it said that the commonwealth games had exclusive access to the arena until 14th August?
By my reckoning, that's tomorrow.
Assuming that is correct, then have Wasps actually had any access to address issues with the pitch properly yet?
It may be the pitch was in a complete state when we handed it over to the CW games, but it may also be that it was fine at that point and has gotten significantly worse since, with only minimal repair work being performed by the CW games staff.
If the Wasps ground staff don't get full access until tomorrow/Monday then surely our hands are still tied
These are the things we don't know.
The pitch looked OK before the 7s started but quickly deteriorated over the three days. It looked like it hadn't recovered enough from the summer concerts. However they, the CWG and the RL WC were all booked before the fall over merchants came back. The question about what was agreed is anyone's guess.
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Wasn't it said that the commonwealth games had exclusive access to the arena until 14th August?
By my reckoning, that's tomorrow.
Assuming that is correct, then have Wasps actually had any access to address issues with the pitch properly yet?
It may be the pitch was in a complete state when we handed it over to the CW games, but it may also be that it was fine at that point and has gotten significantly worse since, with only minimal repair work being performed by the CW games staff.
If the Wasps ground staff don't get full access until tomorrow/Monday then surely our hands are still tied
These are the things we don't know.
The pitch looked OK before the 7s started but quickly deteriorated over the three days. It looked like it hadn't recovered enough from the summer concerts. However they, the CWG and the RL WC were all booked before the fall over merchants came back. The question about what was agreed is anyone's guess.
I'm not even too worried about what was agreed with ccfc at this point.
I'm more interested in understanding whether we're yet in a position to do anything about it given the agreements with the CW games.
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Would love to know what is exactly wrong with the pitch that has made it unplayable . Can’t imagine that it’s any worse than any local amateur/ non league pitches , yet there are all starting to be played on in the desert that is Essex. Are games really that sterile that they have to be played on billiard table surfaces?
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That's not a debate I wish to get into.... Especially as we have pizza gate in our history
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Would love to know what is exactly wrong with the pitch that has made it unplayable . Can’t imagine that it’s any worse than any local amateur/ non league pitches , yet there are all starting to be played on in the desert that is Essex. Are games really that sterile that they have to be played on billiard table surfaces?
The independent agronomist have produced a report which apparently says a new pitch need to be installed. Sounds like it is worse than a council pitch, no root growth. Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
Dispute resolution process had been triggered as wasps have a responsibility to provide an appropriate surface. Cost of a “lay and play” pitch is around £5000,000.
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This is a nightmare for Wasps but I don’t see a new pitch being the quick fix that many are suggesting.
Any new pitch will take time to ‘bed in’ and would not survive the damage caused by our forwards at scrum time when the rugby season starts next month.
I remember Wasps’s first game at the Ricoh against London Irish in 2014 when ground staff ran on the pitch at regular intervals to re-roll the turf that had been churned up and stamp it back down.
The roots of the existing pitch need time to ‘bed in’.
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Would love to know what is exactly wrong with the pitch that has made it unplayable . Can’t imagine that it’s any worse than any local amateur/ non league pitches , yet there are all starting to be played on in the desert that is Essex. Are games really that sterile that they have to be played on billiard table surfaces?
The independent agronomist have produced a report which apparently says a new pitch need to be installed. Sounds like it is worse than a council pitch, no root growth. Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
Dispute resolution process had been triggered as wasps have a responsibility to provide an appropriate surface. Cost of a “lay and play” pitch is around £5000,000.
Is the report public? Is the offer of jelp public? Because the only thing that we've seen to date is legal threats.
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The independent agronomist have produced a report which apparently says a new pitch need to be installed. Sounds like it is worse than a council pitch, no root growth. Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
Dispute resolution process had been triggered as wasps have a responsibility to provide an appropriate surface. Cost of a “lay and play” pitch is around £5000,000.
1. Just how "independant" is an agronomist hired by CCFC & EFL? What question was the agronomist asked because if it was "is this pitch going to be premiership football standard within a week?" then we all know the answer is no. If it was "could this pitch recover to division 2 standard given 3 weeks and assuming the current heatwave ends?" then maybe they'd get a different answer
2. CCFC have offered to contribute to the cost of relaying the pitch. How much? Have they offered to fully fund and absorb the £500k cost or just a couple of quid on temporary loan which they will deduct from rent so they can look good in media statements?
3. How do you write a contract about pitch quality that is acceptable to both sides, is measurable, allows for unprecedented heatwaves, and recognises that it is almost impossible to have a top football surface on a multi use pitch?
It was inevitable that CCFC would complain about the pitch. Given their track record it was also inevitable they'd start talking about legal challenges. I admit I'm surprised it's happened quite so severely and quickly!
In my dreams the contract should have said "wasps will provide a rugby pitch. CCFC may do whatever they like to upgrade and maintain it to a higher standard but fully at CCFC cost including any costs of repairing it after Wasps have damaged it again and again"
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Oh bliss. Common sense.
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Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
I may regret asking this but how is this an indicator Wasps are broke?
When I'm broke and someone offers to loan me money I say yes. When I'm not broke and someone offers to loan me money I say no.
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Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
When one looks for ways to reinforce deeply entrenched beliefs one invariably finds it.
I may regret asking this but how is this an indicator Wasps are broke?
When I'm broke and someone offers to loan me money I say yes. When I'm not broke and someone offers to loan me money I say no.
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Football club have offered to help with cash flow to achieve that, but wasps not interested. Another indicator they are broke?
I may regret asking this but how is this an indicator Wasps are broke?
When I'm broke and someone offers to loan me money I say yes. When I'm not broke and someone offers to loan me money I say no.
Nice +
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What has happened to the joint pitch committee that was set up?
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I may regret asking this but how is this an indicator Wasps are broke?
When I'm broke and someone offers to loan me money I say yes. When I'm not broke and someone offers to loan me money I say no.
At a guess, Sam's perspective is that CCFC offered to pay some of the costs of laying a new pitch, not all of them; accordingly, from Wasps' point of view, it's less of a generous offer of financial assistance, and more of a bill for thousands of pounds that the Club may (or may not) be unable to afford.
Either that, or it's confirmation bias in action!
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As I've said, I have no idea who is to blame here and whether we've yet been in a position to affect the outcome.
However, I feel that a few of us should cast our minds back to when we were tenants at high Wycombe.
How would we have felt if we had to cancel/postpone our fixtures due to something that may have been related to the football club.
I genuinely hope that Wasps aren't in such financial dire straits that we've had to let the pitch expire. It'd be nice if we find we can ultimately pin the issue on the commonwealth games or something like that.
But, I do feel that ccfc fans have a right to feel a bit aggrieved
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I may regret asking this but how is this an indicator Wasps are broke?
When I'm broke and someone offers to loan me money I say yes. When I'm not broke and someone offers to loan me money I say no.
At a guess, Sam's perspective is that CCFC offered to pay some of the costs of laying a new pitch, not all of them; accordingly, from Wasps' point of view, it's less of a generous offer of financial assistance, and more of a bill for thousands of pounds that the Club may (or may not) be unable to afford.
Either that, or it's confirmation bias in action!
Exactly - the former
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Didn't we pay a fair old bit towards the upkeep of the pitch at AP?
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Didn't we pay a fair old bit towards the upkeep of the pitch at AP?
Yup
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Doesn't anyone else remember how bad the pitch was the December we moved to the Ricoh?
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Doesn't anyone else remember how bad the pitch was the December we moved to the Ricoh?
Do you mean apart from horrendous?
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It came up liken carpet tiles, and both teams and the groundsmen were stamping it (or trying to) basck into place. Who used it last?
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CCFC had played in Northampton the previous season and a bit and had jut been tricked in to mov8ng back by the duplicitous city council. But as tenants, obviously.
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CCFC had played in Northampton the previous season and a bit and had jut been tricked in to mov8ng back by the duplicitous city council. But as tenants, obviously.
I thought you wanted to be back?
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SBSam ........... make up your mind please.
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CCFC had played in Northampton the previous season and a bit and had jut been tricked in to mov8ng back by the duplicitous city council. But as tenants, obviously.
Crikey SBSam that’s just a bit ridiculous. How did they trick you?
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Crikey SBSam that’s just a bit ridiculous. How did they trick you?
I like to think it involved something akin to this, but with a football stadium instead of a tunnel:
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/1gWitAIjMgeYKT0LfD/giphy.gif?cid=790b76112bb1f711a03ea3e39ef5779b38843fa7d2b005c2&rid=giphy.gif)
:P
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CCFC had played in Northampton the previous season and a bit and had jut been tricked in to mov8ng back by the duplicitous city council. But as tenants, obviously.
I thought you wanted to be back?
We are back.
I don’t want to go over all the old ground (no pun intended) and I fully recognise SISU’s attempt at a Machiavellian strategy which failed. I use the term duplicitous because, on our return from Northampton, one of the local councillors (since deceased) told the Cov Tel that there was still a route to Ricoh ownership for the football club, whilst clearly discussions with Wasps were at an advanced stage.
Of course, he could have had a far seeing crystal ball :)
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Yes, let’s not cover this whole thing again. Seems to me paying the rent would have kept that option open for CCFC.
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:)
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This was after the return, when they were paying rent. The trick was the council engineering a return with a belief that there was an opportunity to buy, whilst being in advanced position with Wasps.
In terms of making my mind up, I am actually pretty ambivalent about who owns the stadium. If it’s not the football club, then just having decent landlords who maintain the stadium ( as required by the legal charge supporting the bonds security) and providing an adequate playing surface (something like League 1 Burton Albion’s would do for now).
BTW, I don’t know if you noticed in the EFL statement but the independent agronomist report suggests that the pitch in its current state would be unsafe for match officials. They don’t roll around much unless Paolo Di Canio is involved.
IF it really is unsafe for football match officials, it is unlikely to be safe for rugby players either.
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Yes, let’s not cover this whole thing again. Seems to me paying the rent would have kept that option open for CCFC.
PAying the bondholders will keep that option open for Wasps as well.
:)
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Fair enough Sam - you’re obviously convinced it’s never the football clubs fault - no point continuing with a pointless back and forth. The pitch issue needs fixing. It’s obvious Wasps can’t lay a new one - whether that be cash flow based or whether those potentially involved in the refinancing have some sort of stranglehold on expenditure. So we’re all just waiting to see where we go from here.
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Fair enough Sam - you’re obviously convinced it’s never the football clubs fault - no point continuing with a pointless back and forth. The pitch issue needs fixing. It’s obvious Wasps can’t lay a new one - whether that be cash flow based or whether those potentially involved in the refinancing have some sort of stranglehold on expenditure. So we’re all just waiting to see where we go from here.
I’m not convinced that it’s never the football clubs fault, but the state of the pitch definitely isn’t. Wasps are receiving an income for a facility/ service they are not providing and need to get it sorted come what may. When there is some form of legal response it will be fully justified not SISU up to their old tricks again.
The football club have offered to help with the cash flow despite suffering in the regard themselves. I have paid about £1,000 to attend home games this season and I am being denied that pleasure because of Wasps - whom you at last seem to acknowledge are in financial difficulty.
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Isn't it funny how the CCFC fans have gone from calling out the EFL about everything to the EFL being always right.
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What is the actual state of the pitch?
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Today it ceases to be the Commonwealth Games Organisers responsibility.
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Yes, the CG exclusivity was until the 14th, so it's now fully in the hands of Wasps to resolve.
Hopefully there is an action plan which they have been lining up to begin today.
Question - did the agronomist report get made public?
I see that "Coventry City have triggered the ‘dispute resolution mechanism’ in their contract with CBS Arena owners Wasps after failing to reach a satisfactory solution to the stadium’s pitch crisis." Hopefully Andy Street can talk some sense into them, because there seems to be a complete impasse at the moment.
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The football club have offered to help with the cash flow despite suffering in the regard themselves. I have paid about £1,000 to attend home games this season and I am being denied that pleasure because of Wasps - whom you at last seem to acknowledge are in financial difficulty.
One of the things I struggle with is your insistence that Derek cannot know for certain the future of his own businesses, yet you can.
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The state of the pitch is that it is unsafe for football players and match officials.
Has Andy Street got anything to do with this? If he is involved, it is Wasps he need to talk sense in to.
I have never called out the EFL and I’m not sure that bigad’s statement is accurate.
I haven’t seen the agronomists report in the public domain but Wasps will have seen a copy and so will have had plenty of opportunity to challenge the conclusions drawn and which are in public.
Do you really think that the CWG brought a team of groundsmen with them. They rented the facility and associated services which would have pitch maintenance. CBS ground staff were commenting publicly on the difficulties they were having given what was available to them before and during the CWG. The CWG exclusivity is a smoke screen, and in any event they released the pitch early.
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The football club have offered to help with the cash flow despite suffering in the regard themselves. I have paid about £1,000 to attend home games this season and I am being denied that pleasure because of Wasps - whom you at last seem to acknowledge are in financial difficulty.
One of the things I struggle with is your insistence that Derek cannot know for certain the future of his own businesses, yet you can.
Do successful business people and investors deal only with certainties? Derek will have had very detailed information available to him and would be able to weigh up the probabilities. Certainly would have known the HSBC deal wasn’t happening and what potential ramifications could be.
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The state of the pitch is that it is unsafe for football players and match officials.
Has Andy Street got anything to do with this? If he is involved, it is Wasps he need to talk sense in to.
I have never called out the EFL and I’m not sure that bigad’s statement is accurate.
I haven’t seen the agronomists report in the public domain but Wasps will have seen a copy and so will have had plenty of opportunity to challenge the conclusions drawn and which are in public.
Do you really think that the CWG brought a team of groundsmen with them. They rented the facility and associated services which would have pitch maintenance. CBS ground staff were commenting publicly on the difficulties they were having given what was available to them before and during the CWG. The CWG exclusivity is a smoke screen, and in any event they released the pitch early.
Andy Street called in as a moderator after CCFC invoked "dispute resolution mechanism": https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-cbsarena-pitch-crisis-24752168
Whilst Dave Boddy is on record as saying that ("The state of the pitch is that it is unsafe for football players and match officials"), it would be interesting to see the report, and the context in which it was framed (which I think someone else mentioned).
Everyone agrees the pitch issue needs resolving, but I don't think there's any magic way of accelerating the grass growth?
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The football club have offered to help with the cash flow despite suffering in the regard themselves. I have paid about £1,000 to attend home games this season and I am being denied that pleasure because of Wasps - whom you at last seem to acknowledge are in financial difficulty.
One of the things I struggle with is your insistence that Derek cannot know for certain the future of his own businesses, yet you can.
Do successful business people and investors deal only with certainties? Derek will have had very detailed information available to him and would be able to weigh up the probabilities. Certainly would have known the HSBC deal wasn’t happening and what potential ramifications could be.
Is the HSBC deal not happening? Or are there now new conditions attached to it that Wasps are looking to meet?
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The state of the pitch is that it is unsafe for football players and match officials.
Has Andy Street got anything to do with this? If he is involved, it is Wasps he need to talk sense in to.
I have never called out the EFL and I’m not sure that bigad’s statement is accurate.
I haven’t seen the agronomists report in the public domain but Wasps will have seen a copy and so will have had plenty of opportunity to challenge the conclusions drawn and which are in public.
Do you really think that the CWG brought a team of groundsmen with them. They rented the facility and associated services which would have pitch maintenance. CBS ground staff were commenting publicly on the difficulties they were having given what was available to them before and during the CWG. The CWG exclusivity is a smoke screen, and in any event they released the pitch early.
Andy Street called in as a moderator after CCFC invoked "dispute resolution mechanism": https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-cbsarena-pitch-crisis-24752168
Whilst Dave Boddy is on record as saying that ("The state of the pitch is that it is unsafe for football players and match officials"), it would be interesting to see the report, and the context in which it was framed (which I think someone else mentioned).
Everyone agrees the pitch issue needs resolving, but I don't think there's any magic way of accelerating the grass growth?
The Cov Tel have indeed reported that Street is involved in the context of a Dave Boddy interview. I heard the interview, and whilst triggering the dispute resolution process was discussed, no mention was made of Andy Street. Whilst he may end up being involved because of his past involvement, at the moment I would say it is media speculation. I suppose that Wasps application for £13 million from WMCA could create a conflict of interest for him, but that is just me speculating.
In terms of a new pitch, there is an approach called “lay and play, used by Spurs and others, whereby a pitch grown off site is laid and playable in less than a week. What I don’t know is whether you have to give n weeks notice for the pitch to be prepared off site or whether there are fields of pitch quality turf just waiting to be called upon.
Of course, if notice is required, Wasps could have given that notice when they promised to lay a new pitch this summer. These pitches apparently cost £400k to £500k.
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The football club have offered to help with the cash flow despite suffering in the regard themselves. I have paid about £1,000 to attend home games this season and I am being denied that pleasure because of Wasps - whom you at last seem to acknowledge are in financial difficulty.
One of the things I struggle with is your insistence that Derek cannot know for certain the future of his own businesses, yet you can.
Do successful business people and investors deal only with certainties? Derek will have had very detailed information available to him and would be able to weigh up the probabilities. Certainly would have known the HSBC deal wasn’t happening and what potential ramifications could be.
Is the HSBC deal not happening? Or are there now new conditions attached to it that Wasps are looking to meet?
It wasn’t happening by May, or by end of June or by 12 August. The 29 July statement says that Wasps are pursuing different finance options.
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Further, the 29 July statement says that Wasps will pursue efforts to improve profitability and asset value (? Through £13 mill grant application).
I would be surprised if the current fiasco is helping either of those efforts.
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As you have taken over this board I note you haven't commented on Ashley's return yet.
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With respect you’re tying yourself in knots Sam. When they talk of pursuing other options it’s likely that’s in addition to HSBC. It seems likely to me that they’ve attached covenants or at the least conditions that Wasps are now seeking to meet - but these things take time. They will not have a team tapping their fingers just doing Wasps stuff. Everyone understands the frustration over the pitch but I seriously wouldn’t rule out Boddy being told to put a spin on a report. CCFC have time and time again put fans last to pursue business interests. Fact is these events will likely be sequential with the first domino being the refinancing being sorted.
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Sorry, only just seen it
Great news, Ashley has returned.
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Anybody else think this is turning into a EFL/SISU f**k up?
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In terms of a new pitch, there is an approach called “lay and play, used by Spurs and others, whereby a pitch grown off site is laid and playable in less than a week. What I don’t know is whether you have to give n weeks notice for the pitch to be prepared off site or whether there are fields of pitch quality turf just waiting to be called upon.
Of course, if notice is required, Wasps could have given that notice when they promised to lay a new pitch this summer. These pitches apparently cost £400k to £500k.
If we believe Steve Vaughan then CCFC were fully aware that there were no plans to lay a new pitch some time ago and raised no objections.
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Anybody else think this is turning into a EFL/SISU f**k up?
I would like to know why Dave Boddy said that it was "impossible" for CCFC to rearrange and play all their early fixtures away. Were EFL being particularly unhelpful and threatening CCFC with fines and/or points deductions? I understand (though could be quite wrong here) that some precedent had already been set when EFL were kind and understanding with Spurs.
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Anybody else think this is turning into a EFL/SISU f**k up?
I would like to know why Dave Boddy said that it was "impossible" for CCFC to rearrange and play all their early fixtures away. Were EFL being particularly unhelpful and threatening CCFC with fines and/or points deductions? I understand (though could be quite wrong here) that some precedent had already been set when EFL were kind and understanding with Spurs.
Not that I take any interest but the EFL don't have anything to do with Spurs until they are relegated.
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With respect you’re tying yourself in knots Sam. When they talk of pursuing other options it’s likely that’s in addition to HSBC. It seems likely to me that they’ve attached covenants or at the least conditions that Wasps are now seeking to meet - but these things take time. They will not have a team tapping their fingers just doing Wasps stuff. Everyone understands the frustration over the pitch but I seriously wouldn’t rule out Boddy being told to put a spin on a report. CCFC have time and time again put fans last to pursue business interests. Fact is these events will likely be sequential with the first domino being the refinancing being sorted.
I answer a direct question directly and I am tying myself up in knots. You have no idea what other finance options are being pursued or whether HSBC are still involved, but you suggested ages ago it would take but a few weeks.
If Boddy had spun the report, I am sure Vaughan would have contradicted him by now.
Dominos can fall one of two ways, depending on which end is tipped over first. Wasps don’t have control of either end.
To be honest, I think it’s you who is tying himself up in knots.
PS we should have a beer sometime, when all this is sorted out.
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As you have taken over this board I note you haven't commented on Ashley's return yet.
Neil’s - apologies for my flip original response. I am trying not to get involved in matters on which my opinion would have absolutely no validity (puts tin hat on).
I am not sure my 58 posts could really be described as taking over the board - you have over 12.5k
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:) But Neils has been at posting a lot longer.
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With respect you’re tying yourself in knots Sam. When they talk of pursuing other options it’s likely that’s in addition to HSBC. It seems likely to me that they’ve attached covenants or at the least conditions that Wasps are now seeking to meet - but these things take time. They will not have a team tapping their fingers just doing Wasps stuff. Everyone understands the frustration over the pitch but I seriously wouldn’t rule out Boddy being told to put a spin on a report. CCFC have time and time again put fans last to pursue business interests. Fact is these events will likely be sequential with the first domino being the refinancing being sorted.
I answer a direct question directly and I am tying myself up in knots. You have no idea what other finance options are being pursued or whether HSBC are still involved, but you suggested ages ago it would take but a few weeks.
If Boddy had spun the report, I am sure Vaughan would have contradicted him by now.
Dominos can fall one of two ways, depending on which end is tipped over first. Wasps don’t have control of either end.
To be honest, I think it’s you who is tying himself up in knots.
PS we should have a beer sometime, when all this is sorted out.
Indeed we should. You could come to the CBS for a Wasps game and see what entertaining sport looks like. 😉
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PS we should have a beer sometime, when all this is sorted out.
If you can face coming along to a rugby game next time I'm up I'll happily stand you a beer.
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:) But Neils has been at posting a lot longer.
I know, it’s just under 6 posts a day. But there is only one of me and lots of you to respond to.
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PS we should have a beer sometime, when all this is sorted out.
If you can face coming along to a rugby game next time I'm up I'll happily stand you a beer.
Great, two beers.
Someone once promised to take me to a Wasps match but it didn’t happen. Let’s hope the pitch is up to it by then.
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Anybody else think this is turning into a EFL/SISU f**k up?
I would like to know why Dave Boddy said that it was "impossible" for CCFC to rearrange and play all their early fixtures away. Were EFL being particularly unhelpful and threatening CCFC with fines and/or points deductions? I understand (though could be quite wrong here) that some precedent had already been set when EFL were kind and understanding with Spurs.
Not that I take any interest but the EFL don't have anything to do with Spurs until they are relegated.
Displaying my ignorance for all to see ::)
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PS we should have a beer sometime, when all this is sorted out.
If you can face coming along to a rugby game next time I'm up I'll happily stand you a beer.
Great, two beers.
Someone once promised to take me to a Wasps match but it didn’t happen. Let’s hope the pitch is up to it by then.
However bad it is it'll still be better than the swamp Bath play on.
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Anybody else think this is turning into a EFL/SISU f**k up?
I would like to know why Dave Boddy said that it was "impossible" for CCFC to rearrange and play all their early fixtures away. Were EFL being particularly unhelpful and threatening CCFC with fines and/or points deductions? I understand (though could be quite wrong here) that some precedent had already been set when EFL were kind and understanding with Spurs.
Playing Devil's Advocate ....
I can see EFL's point. They have to protect other teams in the league and allowing CCFC a run of away games at the start of the season means they get a run of home games later when there might be more at stake.
In reality that's probably the excuse and not the reason. It more of a power play to ensure football has primacy if other clubs go down the ground sharing route. They won't want anything that affects TV rights negotiations no matter how obscure.
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From the Beeb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62551446
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He seems to have forgotten 3 months ago he was told the pitch wasn't being relaid.
I'm certainly not falling for the SISU gameplan.
SBT is in meltdown at the minute I think the penny is finally dropping.
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I assume the problem with the "lay and play" or other quick fix solutions is that they may be suitable for football, but almost certainly aren't suitable for rugby until they fully bed in.
I can therefore see wasps' reluctance to spend a considerable sum for something that wouldn't suit us, even though it'd likely solve the issue for ccfc.
It's one thing providing for a tenant, but no one is going to do something that is significantly to their own detriment
The perfect solution to this would have been a new pitch laid in the off season, but the CW games meant that wasn't possible either.
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Hmm: https://twitter.com/aaWasps
I can't see it getting much traction, given that CCFC apparently have an away game that day, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
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From the Beeb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62551446
Can guess who wrote that then!
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
SISU have nothing to do with the state the pitch is in.
CCFC rent a stadium and expect a playable pitch, sadly it's unplayable so I'm pretty sure Wasps will be in breach of contract.
Whichever way you dress this up, I'm afraid this is all Wasps fault.
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I think one understated area where Wasps are in desperate need of improvement is in the PR department.
Ali Donnelly and Mel Platt were absolutely brilliant at their jobs and the way Wasps fans engaged with the club in the struggles throughout 2011/12 was testament to how good ally and her team were. Mel Platt did a very good job when she joined the club and had a really good level of control on the media.
I have nothing against Paul Smith. He's a top bloke who I got to know well. I wrote a few blogs for him when he was at the Coventry Telegraph and fact checked a few bits for the club website when he joined the club. However I don't think he had anywhere near the control with the media and that's when the tide started to turn. I don't think he appreciated how demanding the role would be either. He did contact me before he left to say he was leaving, although in hindsight I'm not overly convinced he told me the full story as to why.
His replacement, Tom Value, didn't convince me at all to be honest, and it was around this time that things started to change.
(SBSam may disagree with me here...)
Sisu/CCFC really got their act together in terms of what they told the media and supporters and how things were worded. That in turn helped persuade fans who had previously been against them that they had changed.
The problem was, they did exactly what they agreed not to knowing full well it would lead to a breakdown in contract negotiations to extend their deal at the Arena. They didn't really change; they just spun it in a way that made it look like they had.
Personally I don't think they really had any desire to return after a year at Birmingham City as they were doing so well in the PR war and still had time to milk it. With restrictions on crowd size they had not a lot to lose.
Vale left during the first lockdown and Chris Kerr stepped up into a role he wasn't really suited for, and not only that had to do the role for three clubs (Wasps Men, Women and Netball). He left earlier in the year, but nobody seems to know who has replaced him.
We're now on a hiding to nothing in the PR battle and regardless of whether the club speak out or keep quiet, they're on for a hiding.
CCFC were told that no new pitch would be laid in May or June, depending on who you choose to believe. David Boddy hasn't said that CCFC objected at the time, something I think that had they done so he'd be quick to point out.
My question is this: did they not object at the time knowing the impact the Sevens would have on the pitch, as they saw it as an opportunity for another PR battle to put further pressure on Wasps?
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
SISU have nothing to do with the state the pitch is in.
CCFC rent a stadium and expect a playable pitch, sadly it's unplayable so I'm pretty sure Wasps will be in breach of contract.
Whichever way you dress this up, I'm afraid this is all Wasps fault.
They were told 3 months ago the pitch was not going to be relaid.Its a bit late to be crying about it now.
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I think one understated area where Wasps are in desperate need of improvement is in the PR department.
Simon Gilbert concurs: https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1559207893299302403
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I think one understated area where Wasps are in desperate need of improvement is in the PR department.
Ali Donnelly and Mel Platt were absolutely brilliant at their jobs and the way Wasps fans engaged with the club in the struggles throughout 2011/12 was testament to how good ally and her team were. Mel Platt did a very good job when she joined the club and had a really good level of control on the media.
I have nothing against Paul Smith. He's a top bloke who I got to know well. I wrote a few blogs for him when he was at the Coventry Telegraph and fact checked a few bits for the club website when he joined the club. However I don't think he had anywhere near the control with the media and that's when the tide started to turn. I don't think he appreciated how demanding the role would be either. He did contact me before he left to say he was leaving, although in hindsight I'm not overly convinced he told me the full story as to why.
His replacement, Tom Value, didn't convince me at all to be honest, and it was around this time that things started to change.
(SBSam may disagree with me here...)
Sisu/CCFC really got their act together in terms of what they told the media and supporters and how things were worded. That in turn helped persuade fans who had previously been against them that they had changed.
The problem was, they did exactly what they agreed not to knowing full well it would lead to a breakdown in contract negotiations to extend their deal at the Arena. They didn't really change; they just spun it in a way that made it look like they had.
Personally I don't think they really had any desire to return after a year at Birmingham City as they were doing so well in the PR war and still had time to milk it. With restrictions on crowd size they had not a lot to lose.
Vale left during the first lockdown and Chris Kerr stepped up into a role he wasn't really suited for, and not only that had to do the role for three clubs (Wasps Men, Women and Netball). He left earlier in the year, but nobody seems to know who has replaced him.
We're now on a hiding to nothing in the PR battle and regardless of whether the club speak out or keep quiet, they're on for a hiding.
CCFC were told that no new pitch would be laid in May or June, depending on who you choose to believe. David Boddy hasn't said that CCFC objected at the time, something I think that had they done so he'd be quick to point out.
My question is this: did they not object at the time knowing the impact the Sevens would have on the pitch, as they saw it as an opportunity for another PR battle to put further pressure on Wasps?
Relationships with Sky Blue fans have improved since
Various SISU people with odd ideas left, leaving Joy Seppala more hands on and becoming far more visible.
Appointment of Dave Boddy, not everyone’s favourite and describes as a SISU puppet - but then he is an employee.
Subsequent to all of the above Tim Fisher taking a huge step back
Appointment of Robins and Viveash leading to the development of a very attractive playing style.
The above leading to promotions and annual progression on the pitch
The above leading to the best relationship I have seen between team management, players and supporters for a very long time.
The atmosphere at the arena was fantastic last season, hardly any moaning and groaning just total support.
All this leading to modern era record season ticket sales of 13,500 which I would imagine Wasps can only dream of.
In relation to the move to Birmingham, I think less blame is attached to SISU. No doubt it was spun well, but indemnifying against any future legal action would have left CCFC with little recourse in the current situation.
The return - I enjoyed the time at Birmingham, definitely a bit of a siege mentality. In my view, hatchets were buried on the Ricoh (rapidly CBS Arena) return. The return suited both clubs, additional revenue and increased asset value for Wasps (including greater value in stadium naming rights) and obviously increased revenue for CCFC.
Of course, the additional revenue to Wasps (rent And IEC) was not just a contribution to overheads: there was always going to be the additional cost of maintaining a pitch suitable for both sports and would have(certainly should have) been built into the rent. The fact that Wasps seem to have reneged / abrogated their responsibilities is not playing well in PR terms as you have said. I thinks it will be very difficult for Wasps to redeem themselves in that regard.
Who knows what the content of the discussion about the new pitch not being installed was. I get the impression, including from the very beginning of this thread, that a 7s tournament would not have been expected to cause so much damage to a well maintained playing surface. The concerts will not have helped. Fundamentally I think Wasps have over reached and are in dire straits financially and in a very difficult place reputationally.
Sorry about length of post.
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
Do we know that a lay and play pitch can’t be provided to meet the needs of both sports? Wasps need to provide a safe surface for CCFC, and Wasps are quite capable of bankrupting themselves without any help from CCFC.
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
Do we know that a lay and play pitch can’t be provided to meet the needs of both sports? Wasps need to provide a safe surface for CCFC, and Wasps are quite capable of bankrupting themselves without any help from CCFC.
We only have the EFL telling us the pitch is dangerous.Who told CCFC to play the game on that date?
That's right the EFL who knew the CWG had the stadium for as long as they did.
Sky Blues fans have been telling us how crap the EFL have been for the last 10 years.
Are you another one who has done a 360 when it comes to the EFL?
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
Do we know that a lay and play pitch can’t be provided to meet the needs of both sports? Wasps need to provide a safe surface for CCFC, and Wasps are quite capable of bankrupting themselves without any help from CCFC.
We only have the EFL telling us the pitch is dangerous.Who told CCFC to play the game on that date?
That's right the EFL who knew the CWG had the stadium for as long as they did.
Sky Blues fans have been telling us how crap the EFL have been for the last 10 years.
Are you another one who has done a 360 when it comes to the EFL?
We have an independent agronomist, paid for by the EFL and agreed by Wasps, telling us the pitch is unsafe. Did the EFL know the detail as of the agreement between Wasps and CWG - I don’t know and I suspect neither do you.
I have never expressed a view on the EFL who have been as tolerant of CCFCs nomadic existence as the RFU and Premiership Rugby have been of Wasps tour of England. So no, I haven’t done a 360.
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CCFC want Wasps to spend £500k with zero money from CCFC (maybe a small a loan) to lay a pitch that will tear up like a carpet the moment a rugby match is played. At which point CCFC demand Wasps pay to lay another new pitch at a cost of £500k. Repeat the process 16 times for the 16 home rugby matches and Wasps have spent £8M keeping CCFC happy. And they'll still find something to complain about.
Is this a SISU plan to bankrupt Wasps? 🤔
Do we know that a lay and play pitch can’t be provided to meet the needs of both sports? Wasps need to provide a safe surface for CCFC, and Wasps are quite capable of bankrupting themselves without any help from CCFC.
We only have the EFL telling us the pitch is dangerous.Who told CCFC to play the game on that date?
That's right the EFL who knew the CWG had the stadium for as long as they did.
Sky Blues fans have been telling us how crap the EFL have been for the last 10 years.
Are you another one who has done a 360 when it comes to the EFL?
We have an independent agronomist, paid for by the EFL and agreed by Wasps, telling us the pitch is unsafe. Did the EFL know the detail as of the agreement between Wasps and CWG - I don’t know and I suspect neither do you.
I have never expressed a view on the EFL who have been as tolerant of CCFCs nomadic existence as the RFU and Premiership Rugby have been of Wasps tour of England. So no, I haven’t done a 360.
How do you know it was agreed with Wasps?
The EFL were close to kicking them out of the league they have hardly been tolerant.
You haven't expressed a view on the EFL because we all know there is where the blame lies for much of this.
This has been nothing more than a willy waving exercise by the EFL.
They have used CCFC supporters, unfortunately most don't seem cleaver enough to see it.
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How do you know it was agreed with Wasps?
From Vaughan's statement last week:
We have agreed that an independent agronomist selected by the EFL can come to the Arena and carry out their own inspection of the pitch. We hope they feel it is able to be played on and I know, as professionals, they are aware and understand the circumstances surrounding the pitch recently.
Edited to add:
They have used CCFC supporters, unfortunately most don't seem cleaver enough to see it.
If you're going to denigrate the intelligence of others, at least spell the word "clever" correctly ;D (Oh, and "a 360" would be a complete circle - you meant "a 180.")
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Sadly Wasps management are realising too late that CCFC are not good value as tenants. I strongly suspect they are paying way less than the likely cost of maintaining the pitch to the standard they demand. Anything less than about £5m a year in either rent, maintenence fees or f&b will not be enough.
Hopefully we can find a way to get out of this contract and send CCFC packing or alternatively get CCFC to pay a high enough rent to cover the true costs (plus profit margin) otherwise the next 10 years will be endless disputes
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Leopards don't change their spots.
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Sadly Wasps management are realising too late that CCFC are not good value as tenants. I strongly suspect they are paying way less than the likely cost of maintaining the pitch to the standard they demand. Anything less than about £5m a year in either rent, maintenence fees or f&b will not be enough.
Hopefully we can find a way to get out of this contract and send CCFC packing or alternatively get CCFC to pay a high enough rent to cover the true costs (plus profit margin) otherwise the next 10 years will be endless disputes
You won’t get £5m a year in rent from CCFC or anybody, way way beyond market rate for an arena in in poor condition
If you don’t have a sub tenant asset value of arena will probably further decrease = even less chance of refinancing,
My personal view is that without CCFC the CBS will not be happy about the sponsorship arrangement. Others on this site will take a different view of equal validity.
Sending CCFC packing would be a PR disaster.
Sending CCFC packing could have some, almost certainly negative, influence on bondholders view of Wasps as an investment
In summary, be careful what you wish for.
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How do you know it was agreed with Wasps?
From Vaughan's statement last week:
We have agreed that an independent agronomist selected by the EFL can come to the Arena and carry out their own inspection of the pitch. We hope they feel it is able to be played on and I know, as professionals, they are aware and understand the circumstances surrounding the pitch recently.
Edited to add:
They have used CCFC supporters, unfortunately most don't seem cleaver enough to see it.
If you're going to denigrate the intelligence of others, at least spell the word "clever" correctly ;D (Oh, and "a 360" would be a complete circle - you meant "a 180.")
Well spotted about the 360, I missed that and hence made the same schoolboy error.
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Leopards don't change their spots.
Odd that CCFC have had no problems with Northampton or Birmingham as landlords or with Wasps this time until they dropped the ball over the pitch.
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Crikey - how many times can the same points be made. SBSam at least you’ve been honest about your allegiances. CODY - come on now, you’ve not really been fooling anyone, we’re all enjoying the debate but just be transparent. You can still make your points as a City fan. We should all be on the same side anyway. CCFC’s only chance of playing at the CBS is inextricably linked to Wasps being successful.
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Crikey - how many times can the same points be made. SBSam at least you’ve been honest about your allegiances. CODY - come on now, you’ve not really been fooling anyone, we’re all enjoying the debate but just be transparent. You can still make your points as a City fan. We should all be on the same side anyway. CCFC’s only chance of playing at the CBS is inextricably linked to Wasps being successful.
Et tu, Brute?
Shugs, you seem like a good guy, so please know that I say this with no malice whatsoever - I'M NOT A FOOTBALL FAN.
Feel free to send me a PM if you like, and I'll attempt to prove my Wasps bona fides! Not sure how, but I'm happy to try.
I just felt that bigad82's last post was unseemly and said as much, that's all.
As for the rest of my involvement in the recent discussions, I'll readily admit to being disillusioned with Wasps at the present time; however, that doesn't make me any less of a fan, and it certainly doesn't make me a CCFC devotee!
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You don’t have to prove anything to me CODY and I’d certainly never be so crass as to ask for anyone’s “credentials” - you post what you want to post, a lot of it is really interesting and gives us Wasps fans something to consider.
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That's fine, Shugs - no pressure, and no rancour from my side either.
The offer is still there, though, so feel free to take me up on it if you change your mind!
If anyone else wants to do so, that's fine too.
Cheers all.
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You won’t get £5m a year in rent from CCFC or anybody, way way beyond market rate for an arena in in poor condition
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Sending CCFC packing would be a PR disaster.
Sending CCFC packing could have some, almost certainly negative, influence on bondholders view of Wasps as an investment
I agree Wasps won't get £5M a year in rent. My point is that CCFC expectations / demands might mean £5M is the right price hence my hope CCFC leave before Wasps end up spending more keeping CCFC happy than the income they receive.
The current situation is a PR disaster and it will continue to be a festering sore for the next 10 years. Make a clean break.
Sending CCFC packing will have a negative view with bondholders? Hard to imagine it getting worse than it is.
When you're at rock bottom it's time to change strategy.
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Crikey - how many times can the same points be made. SBSam at least you’ve been honest about your allegiances. CODY - come on now, you’ve not really been fooling anyone, we’re all enjoying the debate but just be transparent. You can still make your points as a City fan. We should all be on the same side anyway. CCFC’s only chance of playing at the CBS is inextricably linked to Wasps being successful.
Et tu, Brute?
Shugs, you seem like a good guy, so please know that I say this with no malice whatsoever - I'M NOT A FOOTBALL FAN.
Feel free to send me a PM if you like, and I'll attempt to prove my Wasps bona fides! Not sure how, but I'm happy to try.
I just felt that bigad82's last post was unseemly and said as much, that's all.
As for the rest of my involvement in the recent discussions, I'll readily admit to being disillusioned with Wasps at the present time; however, that doesn't make me any less of a fan, and it certainly doesn't make me a CCFC devotee!
In what way was it unseemly? your just making stuff up now.
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You won’t get £5m a year in rent from CCFC or anybody, way way beyond market rate for an arena in in poor condition
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Sending CCFC packing would be a PR disaster.
Sending CCFC packing could have some, almost certainly negative, influence on bondholders view of Wasps as an investment
I agree Wasps won't get £5M a year in rent. My point is that CCFC expectations / demands might mean £5M is the right price hence my hope CCFC leave before Wasps end up spending more keeping CCFC happy than the income they receive.
The current situation is a PR disaster and it will continue to be a festering sore for the next 10 years. Make a clean break.
Sending CCFC packing will have a negative view with bondholders? Hard to imagine it getting worse than it is.
When you're at rock bottom it's time to change strategy.
To put some context on stadium rentals. In 2017, Swansea agree a 37 year deal at the Liberty Stadium which is shared with Ospreys RFC. The pitch there seems never to have been a problem and the venue has been used for concerts.
At the other end of the scale, Premier League West Ham pay £2.5 m to play at the London Stadium. London property prices, to buy or rent, are always going to be significantly higher than in Coventry.
You are right that Wasps strategy needs to change because the move here hasn’t worked as planned. Wasps are far from the richest rugby club in Europe and I wonder whether there is regret at making that hubris public.
In an ideal world, the two clubs could coexist in harmony and perhaps even share some back office activities to reduce cost. I personally think that might be easier if the stadium was owned by an impartial third party.
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
Not sure it will be. It’s a long standing loan commitment to build the new hotel. Approved before current financial issues.
Nothing drawn as yet.
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In what way was it unseemly? your just making stuff up now.
It just seemed needlessly aggressive to me, and a contravention of VV's "Please be nice... personal attacks won't be tolerated" rule; however, I may have misinterpreted it to some extent, and I'll hold my hand up and admit to being wrong if so.
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Crikey - how many times can the same points be made. SBSam at least you’ve been honest about your allegiances. CODY - come on now, you’ve not really been fooling anyone, we’re all enjoying the debate but just be transparent. You can still make your points as a City fan. We should all be on the same side anyway. CCFC’s only chance of playing at the CBS is inextricably linked to Wasps being successful.
Et tu, Brute?
Shugs, you seem like a good guy, so please know that I say this with no malice whatsoever - I'M NOT A FOOTBALL FAN.
Feel free to send me a PM if you like, and I'll attempt to prove my Wasps bona fides! Not sure how, but I'm happy to try.
I just felt that bigad82's last post was unseemly and said as much, that's all.
As for the rest of my involvement in the recent discussions, I'll readily admit to being disillusioned with Wasps at the present time; however, that doesn't make me any less of a fan, and it certainly doesn't make me a CCFC devotee!
In what way was it unseemly? your just making stuff up now.
Any post suggesting CODY is Grendel is a bit close to the knuckle :)
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I guess my point is it doesn’t matter.
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In the grand scheme of things, Shugs, I agree 100% - however, I'll admit that it bums me out a bit to keep being accused of something I'm not.
You know something ironic? One of the things I strongly dislike about football (no offence, SBSam!) is how tribal it tends to be, with all the 'us vs. them' stuff and the bile that often entails; rugby stole me away from football a looooonnnnnggggg time ago, in large part due to the camaraderie it engenders among fans of all clubs and nations. Now a bunch of fellow Wasps fans think I'm a football enthusiast :D
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SBSam...
I wouldn't use West ham's rental of the London stadium as a comparison for anything.
We're regularly told that that was the deal of the century and should have been multiple times more than it was
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Fair enough CODY - I guess we get protective of our club. Keep on posting!
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SBSam...
I wouldn't use West ham's rental of the London stadium as a comparison for anything.
We're regularly told that that was the deal of the century and should have been multiple times more than it was
Apples and pears. The London stadium cost £701 m. Let’s say the Ricoh (as was) cost a net £100 m. That would put a pro rata to build cost at around £350k.
I’ll stick with the Swansea comparison then, £300k for a groundshare
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SBSam...
I wouldn't use West ham's rental of the London stadium as a comparison for anything.
We're regularly told that that was the deal of the century and should have been multiple times more than it was
Apples and pears. The London stadium cost £701 m. Let’s say the Ricoh (as was) cost a net £100 m. That would put a pro rata to build cost at around £350k.
I’ll stick with the Swansea comparison then, £300k for a groundshare
Liberty stadium cost £27 million to build so times your figure by at least 3.
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In the grand scheme of things, Shugs, I agree 100% - however, I'll admit that it bums me out a bit to keep being accused of something I'm not.
You know something ironic? One of the things I strongly dislike about football (no offence, SBSam!) is how tribal it tends to be, with all the 'us vs. them' stuff and the bile that often entails; rugby stole me away from football a looooonnnnnggggg time ago, in large part due to the camaraderie it engenders among fans of all clubs and nations. Now a bunch of fellow Wasps fans think I'm a football enthusiast :D
Unfortunately for you and SBsam you have only come on to post about one thing.
Suspicion is bound to be raised we are human after all.
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The Dam Health cost £5.7m. Excellent stadium fantastic atmosphere and a good plastic pitch.
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The Dam Health cost £5.7m. Excellent stadium fantastic atmosphere and a good plastic pitch.
I wondered about the feasibility of an augmented / hybrid pitch, but the EFL regs do state that the football pitch has to be grass.
Non-starter.
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
That is a hotel proposal with the land being sold cheaply by CCC to I assume Moonstone Holdings as part of the commitment made by Wasps owner to redevelop the land in the North of the City
It has zero to do with wasps holdings and surprise surprise has not even commenced planning stage
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
That is a hotel proposal with the land being sold cheaply by CCC to I assume Moonstone Holdings as part of the commitment made by Wasps owner to redevelop the land in the North of the City
It has zero to do with wasps holdings and surprise surprise has not even commenced planning stage
Wasps go back to London.Do i win a prize?
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You won’t get £5m a year in rent from CCFC or anybody, way way beyond market rate for an arena in in poor condition
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Sending CCFC packing would be a PR disaster.
Sending CCFC packing could have some, almost certainly negative, influence on bondholders view of Wasps as an investment
I agree Wasps won't get £5M a year in rent. My point is that CCFC expectations / demands might mean £5M is the right price hence my hope CCFC leave before Wasps end up spending more keeping CCFC happy than the income they receive.
The current situation is a PR disaster and it will continue to be a festering sore for the next 10 years. Make a clean break.
Sending CCFC packing will have a negative view with bondholders? Hard to imagine it getting worse than it is.
When you're at rock bottom it's time to change strategy.
Utterly bizarre
The WMLA grant application will focus on a business plan amongst other things. In that will be the income received from the football club which over the course of 4 years will be over £4m. It is obvious anyway if the plan includes other concerts and prime sporting events it needs to include dilapidation expenditure. One would hope that is what the application is for.
I mean, I am sure bondholders would be very encouraged by a plan to throw out the most supported sports club in the Region as a means of planned growth so they can recover their £35 million!
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
That is a hotel proposal with the land being sold cheaply by CCC to I assume Moonstone Holdings as part of the commitment made by Wasps owner to redevelop the land in the North of the City
It has zero to do with wasps holdings and surprise surprise has not even commenced planning stage
Wasps go back to London.Do i win a prize?
;)
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Unfortunately for you and SBsam you have only come on to post about one thing.
Suspicion is bound to be raised we are human after all.
You know, I actually agree with this... up to a point. (I even said last week that with emotions running high due to the current situation, I understand why the regulars would have their guards up and be suspicious of newcomers.)
That said, I created this account last December, well before the bond default in May caused me to become more active. If I were just an SBT poster here on a wind-up, I would've had to plan ahead to quite a significant extent :)
Yes, I've largely come to talk about "one thing", but that's just because it's bothering me - instead of looking forward to the start of the new season, I find myself fretting about the Club's future.
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The Dam Health cost £5.7m. Excellent stadium fantastic atmosphere and a good plastic pitch.
I wondered about the feasibility of an augmented / hybrid pitch, but the EFL regs do state that the football pitch has to be grass.
Non-starter.
I find this stance somewhat odd, given eight of the 16 stadia due to host matches in the 2026 World Cup have fully artificial surfaces. One even switched from grass to artificial for the 2015 Women's Football World Cup.
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The Dam Health cost £5.7m. Excellent stadium fantastic atmosphere and a good plastic pitch.
I wondered about the feasibility of an augmented / hybrid pitch, but the EFL regs do state that the football pitch has to be grass.
Non-starter.
I find this stance somewhat odd, given eight of the 16 stadia due to host matches in the 2026 World Cup have fully artificial surfaces. One even switched from grass to artificial for the 2015 Women's Football World Cup.
Well that's interesting! I wasn't aware of that!
The EFL regs I cited are here: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-1-membership-criteria-regulation-8/#maincontent and the pitch surface one(s) are section 27 (27.1 being the one that states grass is required).
EFL just behind the times?
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As a side note, the stadium that switched it's surface for the 2015 Women's Football World Cup is BC Place in Vancouver. It hosted a sevens tournament last September one weekend with 44 matches played over two days. The following weekend it hosted a CFL game and a Major League Soccer match.
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£12.2 million from the WMCA is sure going to be helpful.
Update: Not getting it it seems
https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1559493764170784772?s=20&t=xI4sXJDrCz7jMDTQY6QTRg
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On the playing surface question, the FA explicitly allow artificial and hybrid surfaces:
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play
In fact, that seems to be exactly the same as the law in the FIFA regs too:
https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3f3e15cc1ab8977b/original/datdz0pms85gbnqy4j3k-pdf.pdf
So... EFL clearly are behind the times.
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So at the risk of spoiling everyone's fun repeals saying the same things again and again let's look at what we actually know about the pitch.
1) It's a mess.
2) That mess is caused by a combination of a big concert that had been rescheduled from lockdown, the hottest heatwave on record, and the commonwealth games.
3) Both Wasps and CCFC were fully aware of the above points with the exception of the heatwave.
4) Because of Rammstein and CG it wasn't feasible to lay a new pitch that would have been playable. They need love to grow, not massive overuse.
5) Football and Rugby need different things from a pitch. What works for one might not work for the other. It is hard work to maintain a surface that works well for both.
6) The current surface is a hybrid.
What I suspect we will see is a bunch of remedial work, stitching etc to attempt to get us through to a point where a new surface can be reasonably relaid.
I also suspect that the current uproar is deliberate, all parties knew exactly what the situation was going in to it. And so I have to ask what it is for. Is there something happening that we aren't supposed to be looking at? Are SISU about to screw over the CCFC fans again and they are attempting to create a distraction?
Anyway, time will tell I guess.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
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Also for the 7s the pitch (grassed area) was lengthened and widened - no idea why.
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Unfortunately for you and SBsam you have only come on to post about one thing.
Suspicion is bound to be raised we are human after all.
You know, I actually agree with this... up to a point. (I even said last week that with emotions running high due to the current situation, I understand why the regulars would have their guards up and be suspicious of newcomers.)
That said, I created this account last December, well before the bond default in May caused me to become more active. If I were just an SBT poster here on a wind-up, I would've had to plan ahead to quite a significant extent :)
Yes, I've largely come to talk about "one thing", but that's just because it's bothering me - instead of looking forward to the start of the new season, I find myself fretting about the Club's future.
It's a worry for both sets of fans.Its a shame because Coventry is a sports mad city.
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Also for the 7s the pitch (grassed area) was lengthened and widened - no idea why.
Probably so teams can warm up on grass before the next match.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
Both clubs have been dancing with the devil.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
And yet CCFC offered to help with wasps cash flow problems to get a new pitch laid.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
And yet CCFC offered to help with wasps cash flow problems to get a new pitch laid.
Everybody knows there hasn't been the time to do it this summer.
It was an offer CCFC would be knocked back but looks good in the local rag.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
And yet CCFC offered to help with wasps cash flow problems to get a new pitch laid.
Knowing full well it couldn't be accepted as a new pitch is impossible at this stage in the pre-season. But it gives the rabid anti wasps brigade another hook to hang their resentment on.
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You missed one...the EFL refused CCFC's request to start with a string of away games to allow the pitch to recover.
I am not sure that was an accurate statement by the Club
I suspect it has as much to do with Cash Flow. Ticketmaster do not release ST money until games are played so weeks without income would be unsustainable
And yet CCFC offered to help with wasps cash flow problems to get a new pitch laid.
Everybody knows there hasn't been the time to do it this summer.
It was an offer CCFC would be knocked back but looks good in the local rag.
Now being reported that the football club are having to fund repairs and this will be knocked off future rent payments as Wasps RFC have no funds to deal with the issue - games hope to recommence at the end of the month
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We also don't know how much the offer was for. For example, I put in an offer on a $35m penthouse in downtown Vancouver last night. Ok I did it by messaging the Estate Agent on Instagram and offered the equivalent of $78 and a $35 dollar bottle of wine, but it's still an offer. (If you don't ask...)
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We also don't know how much the offer was for. For example, I put in an offer on a $35m penthouse in downtown Vancouver last night. Ok I did it by messaging the Estate Agent on Instagram and offered the equivalent of $78 and a $35 dollar bottle of wine, but it's still an offer. (If you don't ask...)
The football club are upfronting the repair costs as has now been reported on the BBC
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We also don't know how much the offer was for. For example, I put in an offer on a $35m penthouse in downtown Vancouver last night. Ok I did it by messaging the Estate Agent on Instagram and offered the equivalent of $78 and a $35 dollar bottle of wine, but it's still an offer. (If you don't ask...)
The football club are upfronting the repair costs as has now been reported on the BBC
You believe the BBC?
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Repair is a different cost envelope to re-laying. I suspect that somewhere in the bond negotiations potential re-financer(s) have a grip on expenditure in so much as a plan behind it must not be breached.
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Shugs - genuine question. Do potential financiers actually have any impact on operations of a business in which they have no function (can’t quite think of the right word)? And if they did, wouldn’t they also have to factor in the damage that the publicity is doing to the Wasps brand, the potential compensation costs for inaction by Wasps, the potential longer term financial impact of losing a tenant and sponsorship?
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Shugs - genuine question. Do potential financiers actually have any impact on operations of a business in which they have no function (can’t quite think of the right word)? And if they did, wouldn’t they also have to factor in the damage that the publicity is doing to the Wasps brand, the potential compensation costs for inaction by Wasps, the potential longer term financial impact of losing a tenant and sponsorship?
To be fair Shugs thinks a couple of Westlife reuinion weekends will solve all Wasps financial woes.
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Shugs - genuine question. Do potential financiers actually have any impact on operations of a business in which they have no function (can’t quite think of the right word)? And if they did, wouldn’t they also have to factor in the damage that the publicity is doing to the Wasps brand, the potential compensation costs for inaction by Wasps, the potential longer term financial impact of losing a tenant and sponsorship?
Not in that they decide day to day operational business. But the re-financing loan will certainly have covenants attached that have to be met otherwise the loans could be called in. Typically they’ll be around cash flow/liquidity/EBITDA etc etc. They will have been derived from a business plan that I imagine Wasps have had to present. I know no loan is in place yet but it’s a poor look if, for instance, you’ve presented a cash flow forecast and then driven a coach and horses through it before you’ve started because you’ve bought a new pitch. It’s a fair point that within the same statement income from games involving CCFC will also be included. I suspect that balancing act is currently playing out.
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Shugs - genuine question. Do potential financiers actually have any impact on operations of a business in which they have no function (can’t quite think of the right word)? And if they did, wouldn’t they also have to factor in the damage that the publicity is doing to the Wasps brand, the potential compensation costs for inaction by Wasps, the potential longer term financial impact of losing a tenant and sponsorship?
To be fair Shugs thinks a couple of Westlife reuinion weekends will solve all Wasps financial woes.
Don’t believe all you read on SBT agosto. But some concerts would “raise us up. At the minute “we’re flying without wings”.
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It's a worry for both sets of fans.Its a shame because Coventry is a sports mad city.
I know 8)
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I guess things can only get better.
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Shugs - genuine question. Do potential financiers actually have any impact on operations of a business in which they have no function (can’t quite think of the right word)? And if they did, wouldn’t they also have to factor in the damage that the publicity is doing to the Wasps brand, the potential compensation costs for inaction by Wasps, the potential longer term financial impact of losing a tenant and sponsorship?
Not in that they decide day to day operational business. But the re-financing loan will certainly have covenants attached that have to be met otherwise the loans could be called in. Typically they’ll be around cash flow/liquidity/EBITDA etc etc. They will have been derived from a business plan that I imagine Wasps have had to present. I know no loan is in place yet but it’s a poor look if, for instance, you’ve presented a cash flow forecast and then driven a coach and horses through it before you’ve started because you’ve bought a new pitch. It’s a fair point that within the same statement income from games involving CCFC will also be included. I suspect that balancing act is currently playing out.
I get that potential financiers will want to see a plan of how Wasps are going to turn round multi million pound annual losses, but surely such a plan would need to include some contingency for the unexpected. I would imagine any plan would be stress / sensitivity tested in any case so that lenders could have a feel for the impact of potential less than ideal scenarios.
Sometimes the simplest explanations are the most likely, Wasps simply didn’t have the cash and couldn’t afford it - which actually summarises the technical details you have detailed.
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Coventry City and Wasps reach breakthrough in CBS Arena talks.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-wasps-stadium-pitch-24775651
According to Coventry Telegraph and Andy Street sorted until "at least the end of the season" - no real details though?
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Statement on the Offy:
https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/pitch-update-from-wasps-group-ccfc/
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Possibly similar to what they are doing at Twickenham at the moment?
https://twitter.com/jimRFU/status/1559857242630938624?t=ynXQgnKpRlDpmEfIw-x-uw&s=19
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All we need now then is 35 million.
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It sounds like whatever monies we made from the Commonwealth Games are going to have to be invested back into the state of the pitch and winning back hearts and minds.
I wonder whether it was all worth it.
At least they now have a solid plan in place...which will hopefully work as a long term solution.
Although, maybe maintenance costs will go up.
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It sounds like whatever monies we made from the Commonwealth Games are going to have to be invested back into the state of the pitch and winning back hearts and minds.
I wonder whether it was all worth it.
At least they now have a solid plan in place...which will hopefully work as a long term solution.
Although, maybe maintenance costs will go up.
I think they will have to schedule a pitch replacement next year.
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It sounds like whatever monies we made from the Commonwealth Games are going to have to be invested back into the state of the pitch and winning back hearts and minds.
I wonder whether it was all worth it.
I expect the Coventry Building Society would have thought so with all the TV coverage.
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It sounds like whatever monies we made from the Commonwealth Games are going to have to be invested back into the state of the pitch and winning back hearts and minds.
I wonder whether it was all worth it.
I expect the Coventry Building Society would have thought so with all the TV coverage.
The only problem with that is that the arena had to be “de-branded” and was supposed to be referred to a the Coventry Arena throughout. The more recent tv coverage of the CBS arena hasn’t been all that great.
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A good solution. We can now get all of our income streams on line.
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CCFC paying the £180,000 cost of repair upfront, to be repayed by Wasps
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CCFC paying the £180,000 cost of repair upfront, to be repayed by Wasps
Interesting. Do you have any idea what the rent paid is?
(I genuinely have no idea but would be interested to learn a likely ballpark/figure - have seen wildly different figures from £100k per season on the ADVFN chat related to our Bond and somewhere around £1.2m a year although can't recall where, perhaps SBT but not 100% sure)
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CCFC paying the £180,000 cost of repair upfront, to be repayed by Wasps
Is that reliable info? I’ve only seen it speculated. I do hope Wasps have built a break clause into the contract as I can see stipulations being thrown around ad infinitum.
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CCFC paying the £180,000 cost of repair upfront, to be repayed by Wasps
Interesting. Do you have any idea what the rent paid is?
(I genuinely have no idea but would be interested to learn a likely ballpark/figure - have seen wildly different figures from £100k per season on the ADVFN chat related to our Bond and somewhere around £1.2m a year although can't recall where, perhaps SBT but not 100% sure)
I don’t know I’m afraid. I would think £1.2 million far too high and £100k far to low.
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CCFC paying the £180,000 cost of repair upfront, to be repayed by Wasps
Is that reliable info? I’ve only seen it speculated. I do hope Wasps have built a break clause into the contract as I can see stipulations being thrown around ad infinitum.
I think it highly likely that CCFC are paying it upfront - Wasps piggy bank is empty.
I think it highly likely that Wasps will have to repay in one way or another- it is their pitch, they will be playing on it and they will have some contractual obligation to maintain it.
As to the sums involved - doesn’t seem that ridiculous to me.
If there is a break clause, can you imagine the impact on the arena valuation and naming rights? Let alone the political uproar which would ensue. Wasps got it wrong this time.
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I think it highly likely that CCFC are paying it upfront - Wasps piggy bank is empty.
I think it highly likely that Wasps will have to repay in one way or another- it is their pitch, they will be playing on it and they will have some contractual obligation to maintain it.
As to the sums involved - doesn’t seem that ridiculous to me.
So you don't know then?
You may be right, but you stated it like you knew it for a fact. Now you say you think its highly likely?
If you are correct, then yes, Wasps should end up paying for it. TBH, £180k isn't a lot of money IMO when it comes to pitch work.
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In summary then we don’t know what the rent is. We don’t know how much the pitch repair is costing. We don’t know who’s paying for it and when. We don’t know “Wasps piggy bank is empty”. Apart from that - solid fact.
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If there is a break clause, can you imagine the impact on the arena valuation and naming rights? Let alone the political uproar which would ensue. Wasps got it wrong this time.
What political uproar?
What do CCFC have 13,000 STH. Let's say there are 26,000 people who care about CCFC. That's about 9% of the city. If Wasps had a break clause and chose to use it there would be some noise from 26k people and I'm sure some politicians would make noise. Then what?
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Coventry has a population of 400,000 residents. I think the proportion of that population who have some sort of interest in the football club is higher than you suggest.
How many season ticket holders do Wasps have? Of that number, how many live in the city?
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In summary then we don’t know what the rent is. We don’t know how much the pitch repair is costing. We don’t know who’s paying for it and when. We don’t know “Wasps piggy bank is empty”. Apart from that - solid fact.
We don’t know HSBC is still involved in the financing or how the bondholders are going to be satisfied that their investment is safe either.
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By break clause I meant a chance to look at the rent again. I wouldn’t oversell yourself in terms of “political uproar”. You’ve left the city twice and got the odd mention on regional news and some radio stations. You don’t have a large fan base. 13,000 is about right - not a lot for a one city club. 50,000 would go to Wembley etc once they’ve put their Man U etc shirts away. Robins and Viveash has worked miracles to get you to the Championship but in a business sense CCFC hold none of the aces.
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Wow.
I wouldn't be putting down ccfc or their fans in quite such a way.
Emotions are running high and there's a lot at stake.
But I don't think we should be belittling the club or the size of their fan base.
From the political perspective that Sam would be referring to, it's not just the fans that go to games, it would essentially be anyone with some kind of connection with the club, that would include armchair fans, and neutrals whose families may have previously been fans of the club.
I wouldn't be surprised if complete neutrals with minimal interest in either club would also fall on the side of ccfc when push came to shove just due to their historical relationship with the city.
I genuinely think there'd be far more people than you're accounting for who would view Wasps in a bad light if we forced ccfc out.
That being said, as is human nature, most of those would potentially get over it pretty quickly..... And leave us with the vocal bunch that will never be happy with Wasps presence
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By break clause I meant a chance to look at the rent again. I wouldn’t oversell yourself in terms of “political uproar”. You’ve left the city twice and got the odd mention on regional news and some radio stations. You don’t have a large fan base. 13,000 is about right - not a lot for a one city club. 50,000 would go to Wembley etc once they’ve put their Man U etc shirts away. Robins and Viveash has worked miracles to get you to the Championship but in a business sense CCFC hold none of the aces.
This is pretty throw stones stuff. The club will average 20,000 this season and is in the top 20 average attendances since the war with an overall average similar to similar sized clubs.
I mean seriously how many people in Coventry would care if Wasps went under do you think?
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I wasn’t intending to put them down. That’s just the reality of it. I feel sorry for their fans. Between financial and general disastrous management they’ve been hawked around the country, put into administration and now they are tenants in their own city. None of it the fans fault. But to declare there would be “political uproar” if they moved from the CBS (which wasn’t my point anyway) is just wrong.
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Looks like Wasps are renting the training ground - no ownership at all. Wonder who paid to build it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-62582325
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We don’t know HSBC is still involved in the financing or how the bondholders are going to be satisfied that their investment is safe either.
Absolutely, but I dont think anyone on here is stating that the Bond is all sorted as a fact, just that they think it will be.
I won't be commenting on the bond either way till something is announced afficially.
Personally I think both sides on this need to calm down & grow up a bit. IMO of course
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By break clause I meant a chance to look at the rent again. I wouldn’t oversell yourself in terms of “political uproar”. You’ve left the city twice and got the odd mention on regional news and some radio stations. You don’t have a large fan base. 13,000 is about right - not a lot for a one city club. 50,000 would go to Wembley etc once they’ve put their Man U etc shirts away. Robins and Viveash has worked miracles to get you to the Championship but in a business sense CCFC hold none of the aces.
This is pretty throw stones stuff. The club will average 20,000 this season and is in the top 20 average attendances since the war with an overall average similar to similar sized clubs.
I mean seriously how many people in Coventry would care if Wasps went under do you think?
Not many - I’ve never pretended so. Maybe more from the surrounding areas. I’m not throwing stones - that is the reality. They may average 20,000. Some of those will be away fans. Some walk up on the day. There is a hard core of about 10-13,000 fans. That has to be the case as averages were nowhere near that in L1 or L2. It’s not and never has been a football hotbed. Nothing against the fans and not intending to diminish their personal passion for the club but it’s not a club that would cause political uproar.
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And in the interests of balance and reality nor are Wasps.
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Looks like Wasps are renting the training ground - no ownership at all
Except that it was owned by two Wasps directors, now its owned by one. Not sure how that equates to renting it...
"The training ground was developed in a 50:50 partnership, and, now that the complex is completed, one of those partners, who is a director of Wasps, has taken sole ownership under a new company name designed to build on the EPIC brand."
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By break clause I meant a chance to look at the rent again. I wouldn’t oversell yourself in terms of “political uproar”. You’ve left the city twice and got the odd mention on regional news and some radio stations. You don’t have a large fan base. 13,000 is about right - not a lot for a one city club. 50,000 would go to Wembley etc once they’ve put their Man U etc shirts away. Robins and Viveash has worked miracles to get you to the Championship but in a business sense CCFC hold none of the aces.
This is pretty throw stones stuff. The club will average 20,000 this season and is in the top 20 average attendances since the war with an overall average similar to similar sized clubs.
I mean seriously how many people in Coventry would care if Wasps went under do you think?
Not many - I’ve never pretended so. Maybe more from the surrounding areas. I’m not throwing stones - that is the reality. They may average 20,000. Some of those will be away fans. Some walk up on the day. There is a hard core of about 10-13,000 fans. That has to be the case as averages were nowhere near that in L1 or L2. It’s not and never has been a football hotbed. Nothing against the fans and not intending to diminish their personal passion for the club but it’s not a club that would cause political uproar.
But its factual nonsense. Even in L1 in 2015 the average was 13,000 and it was the third best supported club in the league.
In The Championship following the H Road the lowest average last time was 15,000 - it was up to 22,000 at one point. Hardly any club averages 13,000 in L2. At Championship level it would easily be 20,000 plus every week and in the Premier League sold out virtually every game.
The atmosphere already in the City believe me is hostile. I do not and will not condone violence but I did witness someone threatened last week in a local shop of all places who had a Wasps shirt on and this type of action would cause mayhem. Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
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Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
What would you suggest Wasps should be doing that they currently aren't to be more inclusive to CCFC?
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Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
What would you suggest Wasps should be doing that they currently aren't to be more inclusive to CCFC?
Get the pitch ready for the start of the season would have been a help
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But it’s not 20,000 Coventry fans every week in the Championship. Anyway, agree to disagree. The original point was that I hope break clauses have been included by Wasps in order that rent etc can be looked at. SBSam then set off down the rabbit hole of being turfed out. Frankly, I’d be amazed if anything but a minuscule % of CCFC fans would go as far as threatening someone in a Wasps shirt - that’s disgusting if it happens and cannot be condoned.
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I'll get my spade.
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Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
What would you suggest Wasps should be doing that they currently aren't to be more inclusive to CCFC?
Get the pitch ready for the start of the season would have been a help
Perception is an interesting thing. For me Wasps have bent over backwards for CCFC after being treated appallingly by them.
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Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
What would you suggest Wasps should be doing that they currently aren't to be more inclusive to CCFC?
Get the pitch ready for the start of the season would have been a help
From what has been said, the original understanding (When CCFC moved back in) was that it would be ready a week after the contract ended for the Commonwealth Games (14th August).
What else would you suggest could be done that isn't currently to be more inclusive?
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Wasps need to become more inclusive to CCFC not less
What would you suggest Wasps should be doing that they currently aren't to be more inclusive to CCFC?
Get the pitch ready for the start of the season would have been a help
Perception is an interesting thing. For me Wasps have bent over backwards for CCFC after being treated appallingly by them.
100% agree.
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But it’s not 20,000 Coventry fans every week in the Championship. Anyway, agree to disagree. The original point was that I hope break clauses have been included by Wasps in order that rent etc can be looked at. SBSam then set off down the rabbit hole of being turfed out. Frankly, I’d be amazed if anything but a minuscule % of CCFC fans would go as far as threatening someone in a Wasps shirt - that’s disgusting if it happens and cannot be condoned.
There is a break clause in the football clubs favour at seven years - why should the rent be looked at? It has been agreed for the term. I believe (not sure) there are different pay structures if promotion or relegation should occur.
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Some pics and video of pitch and work starting.
https://twitter.com/Coventry_City/status/1560280359022891009?t=xGCqrWJMOgkI90M1vPSTKA&s=19
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Please don't let this thread become like the monumentally boring 44 pager on DW.
Interesting vid by the way. Chunk.
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Looks like they are crocheting the new pitch. :)
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But it’s not 20,000 Coventry fans every week in the Championship. Anyway, agree to disagree. The original point was that I hope break clauses have been included by Wasps in order that rent etc can be looked at. SBSam then set off down the rabbit hole of being turfed out. Frankly, I’d be amazed if anything but a minuscule % of CCFC fans would go as far as threatening someone in a Wasps shirt - that’s disgusting if it happens and cannot be condoned.
Shugs, you said a break clause without qualifying it. In my experience, a break clause is normally associated with an opportunity for the contract to be terminated without penalty. If there was such a clause in Wasps favour and if it was exercised, the result would be CCFC being “kicked out” of the stadium. That would be totally different to the exile to Northampton, entirely SISU’s doing, and significantly different to the trip to Birmingham which would probably be fair to say was 50:50.
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I tend to agree with Sam...the loss of a football club to a city is massive - just look at Bury. There is still loads of bitterness both in the town and across the lower leagues at many clubs. Different situation as the club went out of business, but Wasps do not want to be the reason Coventry left town and shouldn't underestimate the anger it would cause (especially if it were perceived as putting the club's future at risk). Now they are here I think we have to accommodate them.
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Some pics and video of pitch and work starting.
https://twitter.com/Coventry_City/status/1560280359022891009?t=xGCqrWJMOgkI90M1vPSTKA&s=19
I heard three of the grounds staff tragically lost their lives walking across the perilously unsafe grass.
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No, they’re actually in the picture VV but they’re stood in the divots.
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Very funny Shugs.
On a more serious note, and hopefully not in breach
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/08/18/wasps-rugby-club-chased-hmrc-unpaid-tax-bill/