Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Shugs on October 14, 2022, 05:33:10 PM
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Obviously been loads in the press over the last couple of days. Is anyone else shifting from hope to anger. You have to pick your way through the press repetition and guff but amongst it I’m in no real doubt that as supporters we’ve generally been lied to. Phrases in the press that stick out such as “the debt has been horribly managed”, “the debt pile is huge”, “we won’t be going into administration” etc etc. So why on earth were we signing Koch? Building a training ground? Selling season tickets? It’s evident that we’ve been hugely mid-managed as well as misled and you have to wonder if it’s the best thing for those who got us into the mess to be the ones getting us out. I understand all about covid etc and of course it played a part but actions after that are seriously doubtful. With the Armstrong bid looking like failing and the other two seeming to be Ashley or the NEC I sense a complete reboot awaits - and the more that emerges about the current chapter you have to think it’s for the best. I’ll follow the team if they emerge from this - wherever that may be as I’ve seen with my own eyes the effort and commitment on the pitch. Unfortunately off it, as supporters, we’ve been shafted.
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The debt on its own looks horrific but you’ve got to remember it was used to purchase an asset that still has value. If you only ever look on one side of the balance sheet you’ll only ever get half the story.
My anger is firmly directed at the other premier rugby clubs over the handling of Wasps and Worcesters P share.
Derek and the board tried to solve the big problem wasps have had for a long time, how to get us a stadium where we can reap its full rewards.
It’s a punt that hasn’t worked but to kill a rugby club other it is excessive.
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Plus 1 BaM
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I agree the move was necessary and prolonged us existing. There’s no way we were sustainable in Wycombe. I also think intentions were good. But somewhere along the line it’s been terribly ballsed up. The asset is one thing but our debt is way in excess of the original purchase price which means that isn’t a way out. Completely agree about the other prem clubs. For them a mini South West league awaits. We and Wuss are just the first ones to fall.
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Thank you to the other Prem. Clubs. Some family. Some support. Such lack of self-interest. Impressive.
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My anger is firmly directed at the other premier rugby clubs over the handling of Wasps and Worcesters P share.
Can someone please explain this? I currently blame the club and COVID, why are we blaming other clubs?
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I feel that we will (both Ws) be voted against across the board when it comes to the P share thinggy. Please tell me I'm wrong as I don't like being a sacrificial lamb and I'm feeling pretty sore.
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You are spot on Wonky. The PRL (being the other teams) will not allow us or Wuss to keep our P share. I think in summary it’s fair to say we got ourselves in the mess but the other clubs have kept their foot on our throat. Which ironically means they’ve got their other foot on their own!
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The Wasps management I feel only have themselves to blame for the mess they have created and things weren't looking good before Covid. The bond was always a ticking time bomb waiting to erupt this year.
But PRL and the other clubs are just seeing this as an opportunity to get more funding (which almost all will be cancelled out by lost revenue) and a chance to sign some players. They don't give a toss whether they kill off club's chances of recovery or the damage it'll do to their reputation or chances of recovery if they ever find themselves in the financial dog mess. For that I'm increasingly angry. The sport is called Rugby Union, but really should be renamed Rugby Disunion.
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My anger is firmly directed at the other premier rugby clubs over the handling of Wasps and Worcesters P share.
Can someone please explain this? I currently blame the club and COVID, why are we blaming other clubs?
For me it’s the likes of Baxter espousing a 12 or 10 team competition within a day of Wasps announcing likely administration (we’re not even in it yet) and the utter ruthlessness of the PRL and RFU suspending both us and Wuss, without any kind of support or offer to work together and find a solution. It seems there’s very little goodwill from the remaining clubs - there have already been approaches for Launchbury and J Willis - and they will vote for us to be finished off by stripping our vital P share and sharing it amongst them. Tigers have complained they will lose £700k from not having a home game for 12 weeks, but there’s been no message of sympathy. I feel this is one ‘family’ all too eager to kick us into the wilderness and share the spoils.
Where it really rankles with me is the blind eye and lenience Saracens were treated with by the PRL and RFU when they were winning titles with a squad that beggared credibility under the cap. A wrist slap first time around, points deduction and relegation the next, but allowed to keep their squad and loan out players, followed by a resumption of the same on their return. They were allowed to keep their P share and return, despite refusing to open their books. This is far from the zero tolerance we’ve been shown, and there’s a good chance that the Cheats actions and ‘standing’ with the governing bodies started the ball rolling with all the rot as clubs tried to keep up or lost out on prize money.
I have no doubt that buying a 32000 seater stadium was a step too far, and Wasps have seriously mismanaged their finances and are massively responsible for this situation themselves. But the statements from PRL and the RFU ring hollow given their abject lack of action.
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I too am moving to anger because this is more and more looking like its being driven by the greed of the other clubs. I say greed rather than self interest because they appear to have their big green eyes on the P shares only rather than wider considerations, as Marley Wasp points out.
If, as looks likely if we are to believe the rumours, a 3rd team goes to the wall then the remaining 10 will each share the ~£30m, or ~£3m each. How long that lasts is anyone's guess once sponsorship and TV deals start getting renewed, but its going to be nothing more than a band aid for some of those clubs and there's going to be a lot of long memories if one of those 10 clubs then has financial problems.
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For me we were told so many lies, we were losing millions before Covid, the directors didn’t have a clue how to turn it around. They borrowed money on something they didn’t know how it works properly.
Making enemies and not seeing the bigger picture, is difficult to except.
The richest club tag was embarrassing more so now.
The other clubs are gunning for us they desperately want a bigger P share. How Sarries got away with what they did I will never forget or forgive. As regards to supporting another team, yes definitely anyone playing Sarries
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The 10 team league stuff being touted prior to our situation being officially revealed may be insensitive, but this is a potential chain reaction situation. The other clubs are nervous and desperately need to sort it out (and from stuff we've heard today, the championship as well). Our collapse alongside Worcester has sadly been the instigator for this massive realisation English club rugby is atrociously mismanaged.
Players leaving, they have an uncertain future and need to play for England or have a career. Pretty simple. I'd do the same for company in uncertainty.
The shares stuff honestly who knows as if there are less teams do they even gain anything? They're playing less etc.
I'm not surprised we've had no sympathy or support because Prem rugby and the gang have no money too. And I wouldn't expect them to bail any club out as a result.
The Saracens thing, I hate them and wish they had their titles stripped. And somewhat argue they weren't punished enough. But I honestly believe they're not cheating anymore. Why would they have that scrum half or let Koch leave if they have infinite money? Just again feel it's a completely different situation.
Premiership rugby financially is absolutely terrible and we happen to be in a worst of a bad situation. I honestly think it's a gamble that didn't pay off. I'm angry that Derek and the gang claimed we wouldn't be in administration. I'd rather this be Saracens, but it's not, it's my club.
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I just see the taking of the p shares, assuming it happens, is short sighted, short term thinking. And simply greed.
Yes I am angry!!!!!
The long term damage caused by Saracens is now being felt by not only us but all struggling clubs. I hope, but doubt, that their management and all those who knew what was happening are ashamed of themselves.
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I guess the 10 team league means no way in for Trailfinders?
After what they are doing they aren’t going to be voting for relegation as well.
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I just see the taking of the p shares, assuming it happens, is short sighted, short term thinking. And simply greed.
Yes I am angry!!!!!
The long term damage caused by Saracens is now being felt by not only us but all struggling clubs. I hope, but doubt, that their management and all those who knew what was happening are ashamed of themselves.
agreed I am unsure how the league can do this. It is clearly the fault of Sarries and the football club
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Eh? Nobody thinks any football club or Sarries are responsible for us, although Sarries basically have zero titles in most supporter's eyes, and are a symptom of what is wrong with club rugby.
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Eh? Nobody thinks any football club or Sarries are responsible for us, although Sarries basically have zero titles in most supporter's eyes, and are a symptom of what is wrong with club rugby.
Ignore him Westwales, he’s just a 14 year old troll sat in his bedroom with his pants around his ankles….
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Eh? Nobody thinks any football club or Sarries are responsible for us, although Sarries basically have zero titles in most supporter's eyes, and are a symptom of what is wrong with club rugby.
Don’t feed the troll.
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Did not check the name, mea culpa.
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It's the waiting that's killing me now.
I'm not expecting anyone to save us and have resigned myself to the inevitable, but this waiting is really starting to affect me
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It's the waiting that's killing me now.
I'm not expecting anyone to save us and have resigned myself to the inevitable, but this waiting is really starting to affect me
I'm of the opinion that is is all done.
The world of rugby has decided not to throw us a lifeline, and so we are finished. There might be A Wasps in the future, but it won't be this Wasps.
We should have simply ignored the rules and cheated when we had the chance and the money. That would have been ignored...
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Same, wasps.
In hindsight, I'm really happy I took time to get a ball signed, photos taken with players because, assuming the worst happens, I have something tangible from being a fan of this incredible club.
I have been a fan for only 5 years but its testament to the club that I fell completely in love with it.
A professional rugby world without wasps is not one I want to be a part of.
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I am not sure we can be in any place to judge the actions of the league. Were we jumping up and down when Orrell, Blackheath, Richmond et al fell during the advent of professionalism? Were we jumping up and down to help London Welsh when the fell away or was the consensus they simply overstretched themselves financially and did nothing? Did we proactively start shouting recently to protect Worcester and their future + P shares?
We are where we are due to our own mistakes, the league is where it is due to the whole mismanage thing of all the clubs working for themselves and the PRL to isolate itself from the rest of rugby union from the Championship downwards.
Our whole system is rotten. I am coming to the conclusion that the RFU now has to step in, take away any decision making on how the league is run not only from the clubs but also the PRL who are not fit for purpose. For the game at all levels to survive the PRL has to die and the top division recombined with the whole league structure and under the control of the RFU.
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The RFU can't step in they don't have the funds OR the bloody knowledge.
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The RFU can't step in they don't have the funds OR the bloody knowledge.
Then if they cannot and the PRL continues the game is dead, the only question is when we pronounce a date and time.
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The RFU can't step in they don't have the funds OR the bloody knowledge.
Then if they cannot and the PRL continues the game is dead, the only question is when we pronounce a date and time.
This, 100%, there is no one else, unlike soccer there is not an endless string of v rich people wishing to spend, or brands such as Man U that are worth masses. It is v unequal but changes do happen and for those who like soccer but not the Prem there are healthy offerings all the way to the conference level and beyond.
Rugby may have thought it was running a parallel course, perhaps the effervescence of professionalism meant that rugby and probably many of us, thought that with the money put into now defunct teams, there would always be funding.
The other countries (Scotland, Ireland and Wales) have had their ups and downs but have come to a point where they seem to have control over the top level and are competing in an interesting comp too.
That the EA's were allowed to not open their books but suffer relegation and keep their P share is evidence of a game where no one is in position to judge the current position nor recommend a way forwards. This position (or lack of) is demonstrated by the loss of two teams this season (I'm not optimistic) and at least three more in dire straits.
Either England rugby comes together and is open about the current situation and associated risks or else the RFU and PRL are pissing in the wind. Income from internationals, sponsorship and TV is limited, and there has to be a view of how the money is organised and what individuals can do.
Easily could, be a dying game if no one is prepared to admit there are problems and look to the future.