Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on February 18, 2023, 04:10:57 PM
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- The club is going to be called Worcester Warriors after all
- The team will be Stourbridge (at whatever level they finish the season) renamed as Worcester Warriors with new coaches and players
- If Stourbridge members reject the plan, WW will start at the bottom of the pyramid
- Wasps will play at Sixways for a 3 year period
- Wasps do have a plan to have their own stadium and will have moved out by the time WW reach the Championship
- Wasps will support the Foundation and provide players to play for WW
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Seems very specific -
3 year period
Wasps own stadium
Move out in 3 years.
Agreed in principle so far.
All according to others not Wasps.
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New stadium will surely be in the ?Oxford corridor?
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New stadium will surely be in the ?Oxford corridor?
I have feeling about that too.
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New stadium will surely be in the ?Oxford corridor?
I have feeling about that too.
There are other faint rumours which might appear.
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Many many thanks Neils. Here's to the future.
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New stadium will surely be in the ?Oxford corridor?
I have feeling about that too.
There are other faint rumours which might appear.
?? Can?t leave us hanging with that!
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Pudsey says no!
https://twitter.com/WaspsKitMan/status/1626989189978783745?t=gZvbKZxRhncx3U7N9s6z1Q&s=19
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Ooh
Pudsey tweeting that the Worcester statement is not true.
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Pudsey is saying it's not true. Ignore. Jeez!
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Interestingly the Worcester news guy has published it as fact - could be embarrassing.
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Somebody lies. A deadly silence creates rumour.
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Truth prpbably lies between the two.
Wasps might have agreed in principle, but nothing agreed in writing.
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From the presentation by Atlas ...
4. RFU - Past, Present and Future - Wasps
Wasps agreement in principle to play at Sixways
# Until Warriors in Championship - minimum 3 years
# Aligned to allow them to build new home, funding Warriors growth back to Championship
# Double Header potential to drive crowds for Warriors Women and Worcester Warriors team
# Difference in this and Warriors Women tenancy - 2 separate businesses, but ...
# Four clubs; Worcester Warriors, Stourbridge, Warriors Women and Wasps working in ecosytem for greater good of rugby
There obviously more, but this is what pertained to Wasps
Note, it says 'in principle' not signed.
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If it is actually not true the rugby press worldwide have a fair amount of egg splattered. Even NZ reporting it.
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Oh dear -
Wasps move to Sixways: Worcester owners say an agreement in principle struck to play there next season - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64691241
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The tweet that Pudsey replied to has been deleted.
Not sure if that was an official tweet though
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It's just turned up on Midland TV,
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Has someone jumped the gun?
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Wasps tweet
https://twitter.com/WaspsRugby/status/1627004813320896512?t=YRVu_ygD2JZsmgIT84QU2Q&s=19
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Well done Wasps.
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Legends people tweeting please have confidence and wait a little while.
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Wasps tweet
https://twitter.com/WaspsRugby/status/1627004813320896512?t=YRVu_ygD2JZsmgIT84QU2Q&s=19
Wasps tweet gone, image of it below.
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The main tweet still seems to be there, issues start when trying to open it and see replies.
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Wasps Rugby
@WaspsRugby
Despite recent speculation, Wasps can confirm no agreement has been signed with any stadium & remain in discussions with potential venues.
No agreement will be finalised without first consulting with relevant Governing Bodies and local communities that would be impacted.
5:59 pm ? 18 Feb 2023
?
5,016
Views
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Funnily enough I screenshotted it too just in case...
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The new owners of Sixways do seem to be full of shite.
Just like the last owners.
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Legends are obviously doing the right thing and in the right way and right timeb.
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The main tweet still seems to be there, issues start when trying to open it and see replies.
Seems like it might be a wider twitter issue.
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The new owners of Sixways do seem to be full of shite.
Just like the last owners.
The issue appears to be that the document cannot be signed, because Atlas are not yet the legal owners of the ground, because they have not completed and paid Begbies.
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The new owners of Sixways do seem to be full of shite.
Just like the last owners.
The issue appears to be that the document cannot be signed, because Atlas are not yet the legal owners of the ground, because they have not completed and paid Begbies.
They probably don't want to pay for the stadium until they've got everything lined up and I did wonder if they're trying to bounce Wasps in to making a decision. Not a clever move if that's the case.
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Am I the only one who thinks our new owners aren't being entirely open, transparent and honest about this process?
It's easy to blame Atlas after their recent behaviour, but we have literally no idea what is going on at Wasps. I am not willing to give them my complete unwavering trust just because they bought a brand.
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https://twitter.com/WaspsKitMan/status/1626975204038569985?s=19
Looks like Pudsey was inspecting the facilities at Solihull Moors FC this afternoon...
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https://twitter.com/WaspsKitMan/status/1626975204038569985?s=19
Looks like Pudsey was inspecting the facilities at Solihull Moors FC this afternoon...
Good way to stir things further!
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If Wasps ARE to build a new stadium, and within that 3 year deadline, they, in effect, have a couple of weeks over 3 and a half years to get it completed. It took Edinburgh 1 year and 15 weeks from start of building work to completion at Murrayfield. So, from now Wasps have two and a quarter years to:
Locate and acquire a site
Get all the planning permissions
Get contractor quotes and sign contracts
Get work started
That is a very tight schedule. Unless it is a site that is already designated for outdoors sports with parking and facilities (unlikely), that means a new site. The only way that can happen in such a short time scale is if such a site is already on an agreed local plan, or some local plans are already proposed and agreed by the local council. So, some weeks ago I looked up and down the Oxford corridor (essentially, the Chiltern railway line Oxford - Banbury - Leamington, and the M40 J8-15) to find any such plans. One mooted near Kidlington, but nothing on paper/submitted.
The other is Warwick:
https://www.warwickdc.gov.uk/downloads/file/5228/community_stadium_project_site_master_plan
Looking at the plans, some sleight of hand is taking place here by WDC. Erecting a 5000 capacity (one stand, rest is terraces) ground, with limited parking (but maybe they could do a deal with National Grid, who have a massive car park there), and behind it an athletics track. I suspect to replace the ageing track at Edmondscote (where I used to do athletics when I was a youngster at school), which I assume they would then build housing on, to part pay for the new track project.
Of those plans, some of it (if you view the map) 5, 6, 7 and 8 is either now built or underway. I did check for planning applications, and those parts have approved planning applications. That allowed me to see that none of the other parts have had planning applications. There is also a new SEN school there, to link with what I know now as Evergreen School (that site was Round Oak School, which was built on the site of a school I started my teaching at, years ago now. That new school will allow the council to close their other SEN school in the North of Warwick, where I guess more houses will appear. It's all about the money.
There is a lot of land still unused there though, so a bigger stadium could be built, to meet the 10k RFU Premiership rules.
Even so, joining in to that construction and making changes would likely still take a year, even then. Tight for timing, but possible. I know that 'Brakes' are desperate to get out of their Harbury Lane football stadium site. I am not sure who owns it, but I can see planning applications for houses there, and maybe a (much needed for safety as it is a massive accident blackspot) roundabout on the Fosse Way/Harbury Lane corner of that site.
I know logic has not a lot to do with things, but wherever Wasps land next year to play, they can't stay long.
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Judging by the rushed tweet response from Wasps it would seem that they weren't expecting Atlas to announce the "agreement in principle" today. If I was Chris Holland et al I would be pretty pissed off, I would be wanting a public apology from Atlas and I would be seriously considering whether or not these were the sort of people who "we" should be doing business with.
I also imagine that if we have an agreement in principle to play at sixways I imagine we would have an equal agreement in principle with Solihull and anywhere else we have been negotiating with.
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Aren't CCFC building a stadium in Warwick?!
Does Warwick have any top level sports teams? Cricket I suppose. The council might be happy to invite a half decent sports teams to their area of it comes with stadium investment. Edgbaston is in Birmingham after all..
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Aren't CCFC building a stadium in Warwick?!
Does Warwick have any top level sports teams? Cricket I suppose. The council might be happy to invite a half decent sports teams to their area of it comes with stadium investment. Edgbaston is in Birmingham after all..
There was talk of them doing a deal with Warwick University. Which, perversely, is not in Warwick. Its campus traverses the boundary between West Midlands (Coventry) and the fields of Warwickshire.
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I would tend to agree it should be in the area NWW describes. However was there not talk of the Oxford Stadium being surplus to require.ents in the near future or surplus to the owners requirements ( shit area I know but it has had first class rugby on it ).
The other thing to sticks in my mind is the RFU requirement to say in the area for 2+ 1 years and Phil Vickery's comment about nearer the original home area. God knows how.
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I would tend to agree it should be in the area NWW describes. However was there not talk of the Oxford Stadium being surplus to require.ents in the near future or surplus to the owners requirements ( shit area I know but it has had first class rugby on it ).
The other thing to sticks in my mind is the RFU requirement to say in the area for 2+ 1 years and Phil Vickery's comment about nearer the original home area. God knows how.
Yes, there was talk of that, so I dug a bit deeper. Oxford were the ones who wanted to move to the site (actually, they just want to move) in Kidlington. Problem is, they keep getting turned down. As I said, the issue Wasps face is time. Oxford may well move, in 5-10 years, somewhere.
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Presumably the Legends (being a canny lot) are taking a belt and braces approach, ie everyt5hing agreed to be tied with double knots and then padlocked.
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Criticism of Wasps for their silence (until prompted into saying something by Atlas) is wide of the mark. My reading of it is that Wasps have acted 100% professionally by saying nothing until they have something definite to say, which so far they don't. I am absolutely fine with this, and my impatience to know what the future holds is simply irrelevant.
In contrast, Atlas have clearly jumped the gun this afternoon by announcing agreement in principle before any de facto agreement is actually reached. I would be surprised if they are not in breach of an NDA too.
As mentioned above, if Wasps are still in a position where they have more than one option on the table then Atlas may just have talked themselves out of a potentially lucrative tenant.
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As mentioned above, if Wasps are still in a position where they have more than one option on the table then Atlas may just have talked themselves out of a potentially lucrative tenant.
100% especially saying this at an event where you know people will try and take the opportunity to leak news.
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Thinking about it a bit more and giving Atlas the benefit of doubt (I know), perhaps if the wording on that slide at been softened and a bit more of the subjunctive mood it would have been more accurate and a better sell. Along the lines of:
This is our short term vision:
- The club is to be called Worcester Warriors to maintain the historic links
- The team will be Stourbridge (at whatever level they finish the season) renamed as Worcester Warriors with new coaches and players
- If Stourbridge members reject the plan, WW will start at the bottom of the pyramid
- We have had discussions with Wasps for them to play at Sixways for a 3 year period
- We understand Wasps have a plan to have their own stadium and want to have moved in to it by the time WW reach the Championship
- We want to work with Wasps to support a Foundation that provides players to play for WW
Nobody's is bounced and it softens the blow for Stourbridge members a little. It is probably a bit nearer the truth at this stage as my guess is Atlas won't complete the deal until the stars have aligned themselves in Atlas's preferred constellation.
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Am I the only one who thinks our new owners aren't being entirely open, transparent and honest about this process?
It's easy to blame Atlas after their recent behaviour, but we have literally no idea what is going on at Wasps. I am not willing to give them my complete unwavering trust just because they bought a brand.
They have said as much as Derek has.
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Am I the only one who thinks our new owners aren't being entirely open, transparent and honest about this process?
It's easy to blame Atlas after their recent behaviour, but we have literally no idea what is going on at Wasps. I am not willing to give them my complete unwavering trust just because they bought a brand.
They have said as much as Derek has.
Derek isn't trying to revive a dead rugby club that is absolutely reliant on fan support to stand any chance of success.
Also have you considered that he might be staying quiet in order to not cause any bad feeling that may damage the chances of any future club? Let's imagine that there were serious fallings out before the end, and that some of the people on the other side of the argument are still involved. How would a former owner detailing that help the new club?
Derek has lost truly mind-blowing amounts of money in this and if he is at fault it is simply for not being a bottomless pit of cash for other people to take.
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When the time is right, we will get the big announcement. The new management want to get all their ducks in a row first.
All negotiations will be covered bt NDAs and CA agreements.
In the meantime, bask in the thought that Wasps will have a future, unless there is a very last minute catastrophe.
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Am I the only one who thinks our new owners aren't being entirely open, transparent and honest about this process?
It's easy to blame Atlas after their recent behaviour, but we have literally no idea what is going on at Wasps. I am not willing to give them my complete unwavering trust just because they bought a brand.
They have said as much as Derek has.
Derek isn't trying to revive a dead rugby club that is absolutely reliant on fan support to stand any chance of success.
Also have you considered that he might be staying quiet in order to not cause any bad feeling that may damage the chances of any future club? Let's imagine that there were serious fallings out before the end, and that some of the people on the other side of the argument are still involved. How would a former owner detailing that help the new club?
Derek has lost truly mind-blowing amounts of money in this and if he is at fault it is simply for not being a bottomless pit of cash for other people to take.
+1
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I absolutely agree with the last 2 statements (from VV and Heathen).
The guys in charge of the "new" Wasps have enough international level business knowledge between them to know not to say anything that could be misinterpreted, so are choosing to say nothing until everything is in place.
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Everything written in the posts above (page 4) is spot on the button. Well said gentlemen.
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Am I the only one who thinks our new owners aren't being entirely open, transparent and honest about this process?
It's easy to blame Atlas after their recent behaviour, but we have literally no idea what is going on at Wasps. I am not willing to give them my complete unwavering trust just because they bought a brand.
They have said as much as Derek has.
Derek isn't trying to revive a dead rugby club that is absolutely reliant on fan support to stand any chance of success.
Also have you considered that he might be staying quiet in order to not cause any bad feeling that may damage the chances of any future club? Let's imagine that there were serious fallings out before the end, and that some of the people on the other side of the argument are still involved. How would a former owner detailing that help the new club?
Derek has lost truly mind-blowing amounts of money in this and if he is at fault it is simply for not being a bottomless pit of cash for other people to take.
You appeared to be questioning the silence of the new owners and implying they might not be trustworthy, at least that is how it came across. I don't agree if that is what you meant.
I think the comparison with Derek's similar level of silence is fair. You trust the guy in charge on the way to oblivion and who says nothing but not the purchasers who are equally lacking in public prouncements but have at this time not done anything that we know of. That seems a bit odd to me.
Criticising Wasps Legends for silence is not right when their silence is obviously due to the situation not being finalised.
For the second point, no, I don't want an explanation.I think all Derek has to do is say sorry for how things turned out, not start a discussion as to exact blame or any such. If he does or doesn't it won't matter. I am happy to leave that out of any debate, but let us leave Wasps Legends to do their thing and judge on the outcome.
Our new owners have a right to say nothing, and would be well advised to do so until everything is in place.
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When the time is right, we will get the big announcement. The new management want to get all their ducks in a row first.
All negotiations will be covered bt NDAs and CA agreements.
In the meantime, bask in the thought that Wasps will have a future, unless there is a very last minute catastrophe.
That sounds like the re-assurances we were given when there were rumours of going bust. "Don't worry its all under control, we'll announce good news soon"
I'm not suggesting anyone's lying, or doenst know what they are doing but I will not be confident of Wasps surviving until they run out for the first Championship game
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Atlas sound rather desperate.
- Remember they made an offer for WW that the RFU didn't think was sustainable.
- They started by saying that WW would "merge" with Stourbridge with a new club Sixway Rugby or similar but within days in response to protests said they would keep the WW name. That was such an obvious reaction from WW fans it makes you wonder why they ever suggested it. Have they got agreement in principle with Stourbridge yet?
- They announced they had an agreement in principle for Wasps to move to Sixway for training and matches. No comment from the new Wasps owners to agree with that. Places Atlas in a weaker position.
The new Wasps owners are doing the right thing in not making any public statement before there is any formal agreement in place. Good for them. Many of us will have been in the situation of having agreed in principle to buy a new home - but we don't make a big announcement saying so until we have checked the surveys and available finance.
I know we would all like the new owners to say something with all the rumours and conjecture. Good for them to resist the temptation to do so until there is a legal agreement
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Plus 1, Welsh.
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Atlas don't sound like nice people to do business with.
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Sounds like they have held discussions with Wasps and are now trying to force the issue but they could have well shot themselves in the foot.
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..... or the mouth.
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A new one from their forum -
Wasps own Atlas!!
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Where did you find that??!
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.............. which thread of WW I mean??
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Re: Think the unthinkable
Fiver 21 February, 2023 11:00
Everything I've seen so far leads me to one conclusion, and that is Atlas is funded by the Wasps owners. The timings of everything fits in. The insistence by JOT that Warriors go into administration, the quick bung to the administrators to get Dimes out the way, the RFU and DCMS not stepping in. I could go on.
I know a couple of people in the club, none have disagreed with me, although they won't go as far as to agree. They've chosen to keep quiet.
At each turn Jim has said Warriors are either dead, or would need to start so far down the leagues most fans will wander off. Wasps will be at the stadium long enough to get the crowds in and in time will be seen as our local club.
I know certain people don't like this. I believe the process goes along the lines of denial, anger, bargaining and ends up at acceptance. I'm now at acceptance. It's not what I wanted, but it is what it is.
As for the deal with Wasps not being finalised, that's certainly not what I'm hearing.
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Oh - how sweet!!! Thanks so much; I'd been feeling a bit down but that posting from Fiver 21 gave me the biggest laugh for months! Thanks Neils - that was hilarious. (He cannot be serious surely)
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Oh - how sweet!!! Thanks so much; I'd been feeling a bit down but that posting from Fiver 21 gave me the biggest laugh for months! Thanks Neils - that was hilarious. (He cannot be serious surely)
I think not BUT with so much crap floating around from the Worcester forum ( and I don't blame them) anything could have a hint of truth in it.
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Send for 'Vera'
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He talks about knowing people inside the club...
What club?
There is no club.
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The Wasps legends must be seriously loaded if they can afford to buy, not just Wasps but Warriors & Sixways as well.
:)
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The Wasps legends must be seriously loaded if they can afford to buy, not just Wasps but Warriors & Sixways as well.
:)
Well if their board is accurate and the Yanks have withdrawn then they are complete fakes or found new backers. Don't believe it is us but they are talking a good (fork tongued) talk.