Always a Wasp

Several things come together with England - that really require a line in the sand if change is going to come....

The investment in age group especially from around 2006, led to England getting good results at JRWC and I saw a back three of Wade, Watson and Yarde tear apart a more than decent Wales U-20 team in the 6N's. It was very liberating to watch

Lancaster was starting to make progress. I think he was underrated. 80% 6Ns record and touring NZ, and beating them in a really good AI performance - before the RWC foul up. And that conveyor belt of player from the U-20's was handed over to Jones...Who was called a genius for winning one GS, but managed to also produce 3 of the equal worst 6Ns ever whilst seemed enthralled by the Sarries "mafia". All whilst pee'ing off players (my bias) like Dan R who were never given a chance. And giving games to players like Martin from Tigers when he's played less than 8 Prem games....

One really good (Japan-a-like) win in the RWC was allowed to reinforce the all powerful Jones' position. And that surely built the regime that had 17 assistant coaches over a short period and post 2020 a clear drop off in both performance and results and seemingly attitude within the camp. We got the hint with John Mitchell joining. And when Jones was sacked - Nick Evans reported (in Graniad article) that England had no systems and were lacking, generally.

And that allowance of all the good work done with junior/age group teams to go to waste whilst England played increasingly at the whim of the coach and we see the evidence of all those failings in a performance like that vs Samoa. England, an unlikeable and poorly performing team.

And if the rumours are correct for this w/e - Ford dropped, OF at 10 and Smith at 15....Seems like making it up as you go along - with the undropable Farrell at the heart of matters.

We'll only see if this was all "just for the RWC" when we see the squad for the 2024 6Ns. But the Jones/Sarries era has not made supporting England an easy gig.....

Farrell was substituted on 58 minutes with Borthwick clearly furious as he threw a pass. Youngs came on at 9 and 10 to tighten things up and Marcus Smiths stepometer read 7 once the 80 minutes was done.

Thank you for making a huge grin break out! That was v funny......

Base competence would do.....(in hope rather than expectation of course!)

This was very interesting

It doesn?t mean Borthwick isn?t right for the job. He has clearly grown from a player to a coach. He over took a very wooden system left by Eddie. Which is a very tough job to get the players to unlearn what was ingrained in them

Since the 2020 6Ns when England used the backbone of the 2019 WC team to carry on the "focus". That WC team of course - being based on the one which did so well at U-20's level and was winning 80% of 6Ns games prior to the 2015 WC. And given what Lancaster has done since....perhaps we were unfortunate with that tournament's outcome. One which facilitated hiring jones. A man renown for short term gains but also for losing the dressing room and not liking challenge (Hence the turnover of coaches - all 17 of them....)

So that period from the Junior world cup wins/performances that left a legacy of players essentially ran out of steam almost the same time as "Peak Jones". And since the 100% and 91% win percentage years - it's been a record of decent years alongside (under Jones) three awful 6Ns (winning 2 of 5) a few opportune wins to "bolster the myth" but - for me - an underlying concern about a team that could win any game (if prepared like crazy for that one game - Jones' speciality - Japan vs SA, England vs NZ etc.) but was increasingly looking like it was being found out and ideas were running out?

I'm uncertain I have many ideas about anything in the short term. But England must look to the future from next 6Ns....

Neither. Jones was deliberately bizarre. Borthwick is just beige.

When he was one of Jones' assistants, England were playing mostly well - perhaps at times performing as well as could be hoped for. But, (c.f. 6Ns 2018/SA Tour) too often looking like they didn't understand the script.

Regardless - a beige Borthwick that's only doing the forwards (which I think was the case) and didn't have to do media - or not much - was in his element? But like too many experts in many walks of life/business I've come across, you'd probably not have them in charge.....It's quite rare that people manage to be both (expert/in charge)

The current England situation is a result of a number of factors, but after deciding Jones was going to end of RWC '23, a sacking and appointment of a "beige" coach probably wasn't going to go well. And I'm at the point of looking forwards to watching some good rugby (no not from England) and hoping that 6Ns 2024 shows England looking forwards.

Desperate times for the game. Just not enough money around outside of 5-6 individuals.

This. And they seemed to have the "hold" on the RFU such that they (RFU?) thought the sugar daddy model was an appropriate one for pro rugby in England.....as these people know best....

I'm guessing more than one Prem club to go this season and as NWW suggests - a virtually amateur Championship.

Cooperation appears to be too much of a dirty word around the RFU....

Whilst this will sound rather petty - I was more than a little pleased that SA thrashed Jones' Australia...Lots of BS from the man about how good the Aussies would be - they seemed rather lost - not unlike England were over much of the last three years......

.....always looking back.....oops!