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1
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Ugo racist abuse
« on: December 01, 2023, 12:52:30 PM »
Well, I've always thought that Ugo was a bit of a prat but that has nothing to do with the colour of his skin, there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for racial abuse. What I find most disturbing is the claim that there were plenty of on lookers who did nothing. In the old days, rugby was always excellent at self regulating, one idiot has a few too many beers and starts abuse and he would be quickly and efficiently "dealt with" by other supporters regardless of which team they were following.
The online abuse that World Cup referees and apparently Owen Farrell have been receiving is shocking. I turned to rugby to get away from the moronic behaviour that I witnessed at soccer matches, now rugby is heading down the same path. You won't find many Farrell fans on here but if he feels that he has to step away from international rugby it's clearly gone way too far. Death threats? Seriously? I know these are pathetic keyboard warriors who wouldn't dream of saying this stuff to a persons face but it's inexcusable. Really hope that with present technology they can track the IP addresses of the computers used to post these vile messages and the perpetrators are named and shamed. Clearly they're that stupid they're not going to be smart enough to cover their on line tracks.
The online abuse that World Cup referees and apparently Owen Farrell have been receiving is shocking. I turned to rugby to get away from the moronic behaviour that I witnessed at soccer matches, now rugby is heading down the same path. You won't find many Farrell fans on here but if he feels that he has to step away from international rugby it's clearly gone way too far. Death threats? Seriously? I know these are pathetic keyboard warriors who wouldn't dream of saying this stuff to a persons face but it's inexcusable. Really hope that with present technology they can track the IP addresses of the computers used to post these vile messages and the perpetrators are named and shamed. Clearly they're that stupid they're not going to be smart enough to cover their on line tracks.
2
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: 10 Changes that should be made - Article
« on: November 15, 2023, 04:34:40 PM »
As an avid supporter and ex referee:-
1. Coaching. The principal of good communication from the referee was supposed to reduce the amount of penalties, there are several offences such as offside where you wouldn't penalise unless the players actions had a material effect, i.e. ref calls you offside or tells you to release the ball/roll away et cetera and you act on his or her instructions and the game flows. Having said that, at Professional rugby level it can be argued that they all know exactly what they're doing so it should be unnecessary, so at the highest level only, I agree.
2. Reduce TMO involvement. Agree to a point. I would like the three on field officials to make a decision and if they really can't agree it goes to the TMO
3. Scrum penalties. Absolutely agree. The game as a whole needs to get back to basic principals. The scrum is a method of restarting the game and should be a fair challenge for the ball not a way to "win" penalties (and frequently the match). A dominant scrum should mean that you win possession i.e. a free kick with no option of another scrum. I would also go a step further and have the engage done in stages; front row, when referee is satisfied with body positions he calls the second row, then the back row, then tells the 9 to get the ball in which he must do within 5 seconds. That should pretty much eliminate scrums collapsing on the engage and tedious resets.
4. Maul laws. Agree they should be "tidied" up but I also feel that good defence should be rewarded. There never used to be two attempts to move forward. If the defending team has stopped you moving forward or pushed you backwards, use it or lose it. That should reduce the inevitable penalty kick to the corner- maul - try. It's dull.
5. Ruck. Agree but it is easy to stop the caterpillar, just make it illegal to move the ball backwards once it's been positioned following a tackle. That encourages the defending team to counter ruck therefore the team in possession has to do something with the ball much quicker.
6. Goal Line drop-out. Agree.
7. Red Cards. Completely understand the need to protect players from high tackles but red cards for accidental head contact is ridiculous when it is likely to dictate the outcome of the match. I like the 20 minute Orange Card but would go one step further and say that the offending player stays off but a replacement can be bought on after 20 minutes including a previously substituted player as long as the substitution was tactical. That should encourage players to adopt better tackle technique, it does also punish the team but not to the extreme level of a red card.
8.Jackalling. There should be a contest at the breakdown and if a defending player is first to the ball he should be able to gain possession. Yes, the speed of the game at the highest level makes this difficult to judge but if you are overly harsh on defending teams the game becomes tedious, it will be near impossible to gain possession. I would prefer the breakdown to be drastically tidied up by enforcing the law that states that arriving players must stay on their feet. That stops the sealing off that prevents a contest and the highly dangerous clear-outs when players fly into a ruck with zero intention of staying on their feet and makes it far easier to judge if a jackal is legal.
9. Dummying. Agree but don't think it's a massive issue.
10. Forward pass. Complete and utter twaddle. As other have mentioned, this is basic laws of physics. The law used to say that if the ball travels towards the opposition dead ball line it's a forward pass. Problem is, if a player is running forward with the ball, the ball is also travelling forward at the same speed. Players would have to throw the ball backwards at at least the same velocity as they are going forwards or it will inevitably travel forward. Officials are trying to judge if the ball has moved forward with respect to the position and speed of the player and the way it leaves their hands is a decent way to make that judgement. This however can and should be automated. All players at the highest levels are wearing GPS style trackers which coaches use to monitor their performance. Fit a similar tracker in each ball and a simple bit of software will instantly tell the officials if a pass was forwards.
1. Coaching. The principal of good communication from the referee was supposed to reduce the amount of penalties, there are several offences such as offside where you wouldn't penalise unless the players actions had a material effect, i.e. ref calls you offside or tells you to release the ball/roll away et cetera and you act on his or her instructions and the game flows. Having said that, at Professional rugby level it can be argued that they all know exactly what they're doing so it should be unnecessary, so at the highest level only, I agree.
2. Reduce TMO involvement. Agree to a point. I would like the three on field officials to make a decision and if they really can't agree it goes to the TMO
3. Scrum penalties. Absolutely agree. The game as a whole needs to get back to basic principals. The scrum is a method of restarting the game and should be a fair challenge for the ball not a way to "win" penalties (and frequently the match). A dominant scrum should mean that you win possession i.e. a free kick with no option of another scrum. I would also go a step further and have the engage done in stages; front row, when referee is satisfied with body positions he calls the second row, then the back row, then tells the 9 to get the ball in which he must do within 5 seconds. That should pretty much eliminate scrums collapsing on the engage and tedious resets.
4. Maul laws. Agree they should be "tidied" up but I also feel that good defence should be rewarded. There never used to be two attempts to move forward. If the defending team has stopped you moving forward or pushed you backwards, use it or lose it. That should reduce the inevitable penalty kick to the corner- maul - try. It's dull.
5. Ruck. Agree but it is easy to stop the caterpillar, just make it illegal to move the ball backwards once it's been positioned following a tackle. That encourages the defending team to counter ruck therefore the team in possession has to do something with the ball much quicker.
6. Goal Line drop-out. Agree.
7. Red Cards. Completely understand the need to protect players from high tackles but red cards for accidental head contact is ridiculous when it is likely to dictate the outcome of the match. I like the 20 minute Orange Card but would go one step further and say that the offending player stays off but a replacement can be bought on after 20 minutes including a previously substituted player as long as the substitution was tactical. That should encourage players to adopt better tackle technique, it does also punish the team but not to the extreme level of a red card.
8.Jackalling. There should be a contest at the breakdown and if a defending player is first to the ball he should be able to gain possession. Yes, the speed of the game at the highest level makes this difficult to judge but if you are overly harsh on defending teams the game becomes tedious, it will be near impossible to gain possession. I would prefer the breakdown to be drastically tidied up by enforcing the law that states that arriving players must stay on their feet. That stops the sealing off that prevents a contest and the highly dangerous clear-outs when players fly into a ruck with zero intention of staying on their feet and makes it far easier to judge if a jackal is legal.
9. Dummying. Agree but don't think it's a massive issue.
10. Forward pass. Complete and utter twaddle. As other have mentioned, this is basic laws of physics. The law used to say that if the ball travels towards the opposition dead ball line it's a forward pass. Problem is, if a player is running forward with the ball, the ball is also travelling forward at the same speed. Players would have to throw the ball backwards at at least the same velocity as they are going forwards or it will inevitably travel forward. Officials are trying to judge if the ball has moved forward with respect to the position and speed of the player and the way it leaves their hands is a decent way to make that judgement. This however can and should be automated. All players at the highest levels are wearing GPS style trackers which coaches use to monitor their performance. Fit a similar tracker in each ball and a simple bit of software will instantly tell the officials if a pass was forwards.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: WR and head contact
« on: November 04, 2023, 02:52:22 PM »
Now you?ll struggle to find many fans of Owen Farrell on this board but I thought that the Bok forearm smashing him in the head that wasn?t even a penalty made a mockery of World Rugby?s so-called aim of protecting players. The guy was running at pace and made no attempt to make safe contact but apparently it?s ok because he was carrying a ball. Ludicrous. The only legal arm to head contact is supposed to be a hand-off which must be a straight arm and flat hand.
Yes, it?s ironic it was Farrell with his history of high tackles but it doesn?t make it acceptable.
Yes, it?s ironic it was Farrell with his history of high tackles but it doesn?t make it acceptable.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Eddie's Aus Crash and Burn.
« on: November 01, 2023, 01:50:38 PM »Ugo Monye: 'It stinks'Monye is doing what he does best, talking out of his backside. If you read the details of Jones? so-called resignation it?s obvious that he was given the option of resigning or being sacked. He hasn?t walked away after their worst ever WC performance, he didn?t want to leave but Rugby Australia (rightly) came to the conclusion that he was leading them in the wrong direction so it was they who gave him the heave-ho. Of course it was their own fault for appointing him in the first place, perhaps they should have looked a little closer at his actual record as Westwaleswasp has done.
Also on the Beeb.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67262905
Serial conman.
5
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Well done England
« on: October 22, 2023, 02:10:40 PM »
I?ve been amongst those fiercely critical of Borthwick but I?ll cut him a little slack. He had very little time to prepare for the World Cup and inherited the squad from Jones so we shouldn?t be too surprised that he stuck with veteran players and a very basic (dull) game plan. Actually reaching the Semis was quite an achievement, even given the relatively easy group and the intensity yesterday was at a level we haven?t seen since the Semi Final against the All Blacks in Japan. Obviously the weather helped out game plan but even so, we really troubled the Boks until the front row replacements came on.
I was also encouraged by Borthwick?s comments about the youngsters in the squad which hopefully means we can retire a good few of the ponderous, well passed their best ?vets? that make up the bulk of the squad and plan for a more expansive game with a bit of pace in the back three. Hopefully we?ve seen the last of the likes of Cole, Marler, Daly, May and Tuilagi albeit they played well yesterday. If I ever see Vunipola in an England shirt again I?ll turn the tv over, total waste of space. Now that Tom Willis has signed for the cheats (that is still painful to consider) I doubt that Billy is going to get much game time. I?d like to include Farrell in that list but Borthwick seems to think he?s the Messia. Wonder if it?s occurred to him that Farrell?s backchat gifted SA 10 metres and an easy 3 points in a game we lost by a point?
Incidentally, I have to agree with a few posts I?ve seen regarding that last penalty, ?the Wasp that never was? Vincent Koch was boring in at 45 degrees, problem was the referee had already made his mind up who was going to be at fault. It infuriates me that this is so rarely penalised, Koch?s fellow countryman ?The Beast? who gave Phil Vickery such a torrid time on the Lions tour was always doing it. As a referee my front row briefing was always just that- brief. They aren?t interested, they?re busy with their pre match, so it would always be ?Straight and Square, safe and legal? Koch was NOT scrummaging square by any stretch of the imagination.
I was also encouraged by Borthwick?s comments about the youngsters in the squad which hopefully means we can retire a good few of the ponderous, well passed their best ?vets? that make up the bulk of the squad and plan for a more expansive game with a bit of pace in the back three. Hopefully we?ve seen the last of the likes of Cole, Marler, Daly, May and Tuilagi albeit they played well yesterday. If I ever see Vunipola in an England shirt again I?ll turn the tv over, total waste of space. Now that Tom Willis has signed for the cheats (that is still painful to consider) I doubt that Billy is going to get much game time. I?d like to include Farrell in that list but Borthwick seems to think he?s the Messia. Wonder if it?s occurred to him that Farrell?s backchat gifted SA 10 metres and an easy 3 points in a game we lost by a point?
Incidentally, I have to agree with a few posts I?ve seen regarding that last penalty, ?the Wasp that never was? Vincent Koch was boring in at 45 degrees, problem was the referee had already made his mind up who was going to be at fault. It infuriates me that this is so rarely penalised, Koch?s fellow countryman ?The Beast? who gave Phil Vickery such a torrid time on the Lions tour was always doing it. As a referee my front row briefing was always just that- brief. They aren?t interested, they?re busy with their pre match, so it would always be ?Straight and Square, safe and legal? Koch was NOT scrummaging square by any stretch of the imagination.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: England
« on: October 11, 2023, 11:30:00 AM »I'm conflicted.I would love to throw my full support behind England but it's virtually impossible to do so with the frankly abysmal rugby they are playing coupled with a coaching team selecting players who are so past their best it's embarrassing. England may well sneak past Fiji but they will then face the winner of France v South Africa (I would expect France to prevail) either of whom will absolutely hammer England. France beat us at Twickenham in the Six Nations with a record score, if we meet them in a world Cup Semi Final on home soil I would expect that record to be smashed. Perhaps that will be enough to make the RFU see what every rugby supporter in England is seeing which is that things are not working and cannot continue in the present form.
I want the team do well for the players, they didn't pick the team or decide game plan, they have put a lot of work in to get to this point, but also, if not more importantly, for all those who've worked to get them there. Their parents, wives and families, coaches who've worked with them through their career especially when they were children, the clubs and schools they played at when young and supported them and the myriad of people who have been involved supporting them in other ways.
On the other hand, if they do get to the semi-final or even further the RFU will be able to point to it and claim their approach is working. Not only would that be an insult to anyone who can see but also a calamity for the future of the game. We really can't go on playing this a type rugby at international level as its so obvious that we are being left behind and as others have pointed out, if that's how England play then players who want to play for England will have to learn to play that way at club level. It will be made even worse if they bring in central contracts.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: We've bought season tickets to watch ....
« on: August 23, 2023, 10:45:56 AM »The England players on central contracts still turn out for their clubs, that's not changed. Obviously England duties take precedence and with the Autumn matches v Canada and the new WXV competition it will be a while before any Red Roses players turn out for their clubs in the league but then the Women's Premiership is starting late this season anyway.Did Abby Dow sign on for Ealing?
Yes - but then was awarded a central contract so not sure what is happening about her.
She's still listed as a Trailfinders player on their player list.
I'm also planning to follow Ealing ladies, I'm pretty sure there'll be a decent showing of Wasps merch in the crowd.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: england1st 15 vs wales c
« on: August 12, 2023, 07:48:59 PM »
Owen Farrell red carded for unnecessary high tackle due to atrocious tackle technique. In other breaking news, day follows night.
Given previous poor disciplinary record, ban should be around 10 matches, Farrell has said he?s very sorry, helps little old ladies cross the road and of course places for Saracens therefore expected ban to be 1 match
Given previous poor disciplinary record, ban should be around 10 matches, Farrell has said he?s very sorry, helps little old ladies cross the road and of course places for Saracens therefore expected ban to be 1 match
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Worcester - Atlas have until 2nd May to complete purchase
« on: May 09, 2023, 02:08:29 PM »]
I'll be honest: I find it hard to disagree with any of that. Very well stated.
Agree that it's hard to disagree with any of that.
However, I can't agree that it's very well stated. Strong on emotive language, speculation and rumour, but light on facts. Surely there is someone within the supporters' trust with some sort of legal/business background that could have composed a more professional submission?
I agree. It's so full of contradictions and rants that go off at a tangent that they've diluted the genuine message that Wasps application is apparently against RFU regulations (which are open to a degree of interpretation).
For example, they mention that Atlas have "no plans for a WW mens team to play at Sixways for the foreseeable future" but Wasps playing at Sixways would negatively "impact the prospect of a Phoenix Worcester team", one that they've just stated doesn't exist!
Wasps playing there would also be "to the detriment of pre-existing local clubs" But WW playing there wouldn't???
They have very short memories, if WW were to miraculously re-appear, there have been plenty of ground shares in the Premiership, Irish at The Stoop for example. Nobody was ranting about stealing supporters AFAIK.
I also love the "unforgivable if a club without any stadium or facilities, which has left behind vast debts and misery in Coventry..." Unlike WW who are a club without a stadium or facilities and left behind huge debts and misery in Worcester! Pot meet kettle.
And then "The legacy of Cecil Duckworth, so important to everyone in Worcester, has been emasculated by both previous and current owners and we are determined that this must be reversed" 100% agree but I thought this was an objection to Wasps, what has Cecil Duckworth's legacy got to do with us? we're just trying to find somewhere to play, admittedly not going about it in a very honourable fashion. Allegedly.
I'm certain that we're all completely sympathetic to the plight that Worcester Wanders and their supporters find themselves in but guys, pick your battles, we're not the cause of your problems, we face many of the same issues and in an ideal world would be playing against WW in the Championship next season. Sadly, that's almost certainly not going to happen, it may not happen for us so little point in making enemies of Wasps supporters.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: England today
« on: March 23, 2023, 10:55:22 AM »Agree. If a player knocks the ball on and a player from the same team picks the ball up in front of where it was knocked on, he's offside and it's a pen.
[/quote]
He's only offside if he's in front of the player who knocks on which he wasn't. He ran to collect the ball from an on side position presumably to gather the ball to stop England gaining the advantage. No penalty, the correct outcome would have been scrum England as there was no advantage from the knock on.
I agree that the downgrading to yellow is just to save face, the mitigation is overwhelming. Very unfortunate incident but Rugby is a brutal old game even when is keeps within the laws, glad that common sense has prevailed.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: England today
« on: March 20, 2023, 11:36:28 AM »
Whilst there was a noticeable improvement from England there are still serious issues and 4th place in the table is entirely justified. I still think Itoje is getting picked on reputation, he's becoming a liability with the number of penalties he gives away and I still don't think Dombrant is an International standard No8 as excellent as he is for Quins. We've still got major issues with 12 and 13. Our defence is still poor, Ireland's first try was a decidedly antique move off a line out. If you're conceding tries from a first phase move like that you've got problems.
I have to admit however that I switched off after the first half having seen the ridiculous red card given to Steward. England were never going to win the game but it might have been a decent close match. Pundits all saying that once the referee applied the protocols he had to go but I don't agree and the protocols are clearly wrong anyway.
Jaco Peyper claimed that there was no mitigation and a high degree of danger. Really? Mitigation was that Keenan was stooping to pick up a ball that had gone forward in spite of an England defender bearing down on him. He put himself in a dangerous position. Steward did everything he could in a split second to avoid contact, that's mitigation. High degree of danger? Really? In the Women's World Cup final, Kiwi Kennedy Simon ran 15 meters and head butted Abby Dow who was running at full speed -and she's quick- and that was deemed to be only worthy of a Yellow Card despite the speed of the collision and the time the New Zealand player had to make sure she tackled legally. That could have been a career ending injury for either player, now THAT'S high degree of danger.
The protocol needs a serious examination to make sure that there's a degree of common sense. Yes, we want to reduce head contact where possible but rugby is a full contact sport, that's what people- players and supporters- love about it, there are going to be collisions, get over it. Make players wear scrum caps if you want (but please not the 150lbs of body armour that American Footballer wear). Protocol should be; was there head contact? Was it a deliberate, malicious act? Was it a reckless act? Who instigated the collision, did the ball carrier hit the defender or vice versa? Apply that and you don't even need to consider mitigation. If there was no recklessness and the ball carrier hit the defender rather than round the other way it's a rugby incident, get on with the game.
In the 2001 Lions tour of Australia, Duncan McRae pinned Ronan O'Gara on the ground and punched him 11 times. He got the same punishment- a red card- as Freddie Steward who accidentally collided with Keenan. Ludicrous.
I have to admit however that I switched off after the first half having seen the ridiculous red card given to Steward. England were never going to win the game but it might have been a decent close match. Pundits all saying that once the referee applied the protocols he had to go but I don't agree and the protocols are clearly wrong anyway.
Jaco Peyper claimed that there was no mitigation and a high degree of danger. Really? Mitigation was that Keenan was stooping to pick up a ball that had gone forward in spite of an England defender bearing down on him. He put himself in a dangerous position. Steward did everything he could in a split second to avoid contact, that's mitigation. High degree of danger? Really? In the Women's World Cup final, Kiwi Kennedy Simon ran 15 meters and head butted Abby Dow who was running at full speed -and she's quick- and that was deemed to be only worthy of a Yellow Card despite the speed of the collision and the time the New Zealand player had to make sure she tackled legally. That could have been a career ending injury for either player, now THAT'S high degree of danger.
The protocol needs a serious examination to make sure that there's a degree of common sense. Yes, we want to reduce head contact where possible but rugby is a full contact sport, that's what people- players and supporters- love about it, there are going to be collisions, get over it. Make players wear scrum caps if you want (but please not the 150lbs of body armour that American Footballer wear). Protocol should be; was there head contact? Was it a deliberate, malicious act? Was it a reckless act? Who instigated the collision, did the ball carrier hit the defender or vice versa? Apply that and you don't even need to consider mitigation. If there was no recklessness and the ball carrier hit the defender rather than round the other way it's a rugby incident, get on with the game.
In the 2001 Lions tour of Australia, Duncan McRae pinned Ronan O'Gara on the ground and punched him 11 times. He got the same punishment- a red card- as Freddie Steward who accidentally collided with Keenan. Ludicrous.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: England today
« on: March 14, 2023, 10:54:21 AM »
I was trying to work out if it was France being outstanding or England being dreadful or a combination of the two. It was men against boys, reminded me of the first few years of the Six Nations when Italy were the whipping boys and everyone playing them could try anything and score.
You can't ignore the gulf in quality, this wasn't the "Tour of Hell" with a second choice squad halfway round the world, this was arguably our strongest team at home and we lost to a record score. What's the issue? Is it going to take Borthwick time to try and undo the damage that Jones did sticking with the same selections regardless of form and ignoring young talent? Is Borthwick's lack of International coaching experience being exposed? Is this the RFU's mismanagement of the English game? Is it a result of the 8 man rugby perpetrated by the EAs and Chiefs that is dominating the Premiership meaning we can't compete at International level if we can't dominate up front?
I'm hoping that it was "one of those days" when France were just outstanding and they would have wiped the floor with whoever was in front of them, including Ireland. If they can maintain that standard at their home World Cup they'll be very hard to beat.
The only plus point for me was how gratifying it was to see how good Theo was and it was mentioned a couple of times that it was Wasps who gave him his first shot at professional rugby.
You can't ignore the gulf in quality, this wasn't the "Tour of Hell" with a second choice squad halfway round the world, this was arguably our strongest team at home and we lost to a record score. What's the issue? Is it going to take Borthwick time to try and undo the damage that Jones did sticking with the same selections regardless of form and ignoring young talent? Is Borthwick's lack of International coaching experience being exposed? Is this the RFU's mismanagement of the English game? Is it a result of the 8 man rugby perpetrated by the EAs and Chiefs that is dominating the Premiership meaning we can't compete at International level if we can't dominate up front?
I'm hoping that it was "one of those days" when France were just outstanding and they would have wiped the floor with whoever was in front of them, including Ireland. If they can maintain that standard at their home World Cup they'll be very hard to beat.
The only plus point for me was how gratifying it was to see how good Theo was and it was mentioned a couple of times that it was Wasps who gave him his first shot at professional rugby.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Diamond off to Edinburgh
« on: March 10, 2023, 10:54:22 AM »
The reports are saying it's an immediate appointment but only until the end of the season. Presumably that could get extended if both parties feel it's been a success but it certainly doesn't necessarily rule him out the WW proposals
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: OT : Farrell past his use by date?
« on: February 27, 2023, 11:32:29 AM »
As JonnyD mentioned, it wasn't just Saturday that Farrell's kicking was poor, 44.3% over three matches is atrocious. As is his decision making as both captain and fly half. You can claim that the two penalties he missed against Wales were difficult kicks, but he's the captain and he chose to attempt them.
Wales are indeed shocking at the moment and the gulf in quality was really evident in the first 20 minutes when England's speed of recycling, keeping the ball in hand and decent passing led to Watson's excellent try and should have led to more points on the board. A good fly half- think Wilkinson or Alex King- would have popped over two or three drop goals when we had good field position but several phases hadn't got us any closer to a try. A bunch of drop goals and nailing your kicks and we've hammered Wales by 30 points not 10.
I actually think that the Lawrence/Slade centre partnership has promise and they deserve a few more games to develop, at least they're centres playing in the centre! Agree that JVP isn't cutting it, Mitchell deserves a start. Having been highly critical of Dombrandt he has shown improvement from game to game and was good against wales. Itoje however is definitely being picked on reputation not form, time to give another second row a chance. Dropping Itoje to the bench might be the incentive for him to raise his game or it will show us if he's passed his best and needs to be out of the squad.
Wales didn't get close to getting over the line other than a gifted interception, fair play to Bothwick and of course Kevin Sinfield for a dramatic improvement defensively.
France are looking a little venerable as Scotland showed at times yesterday so I think we've got a chance as we've got them at Twickenham in two weeks. We're not however going to lay a finger on Ireland in Dublin in the final week, particularly as they're highly likely to be chasing a grand slam.
Wales are indeed shocking at the moment and the gulf in quality was really evident in the first 20 minutes when England's speed of recycling, keeping the ball in hand and decent passing led to Watson's excellent try and should have led to more points on the board. A good fly half- think Wilkinson or Alex King- would have popped over two or three drop goals when we had good field position but several phases hadn't got us any closer to a try. A bunch of drop goals and nailing your kicks and we've hammered Wales by 30 points not 10.
I actually think that the Lawrence/Slade centre partnership has promise and they deserve a few more games to develop, at least they're centres playing in the centre! Agree that JVP isn't cutting it, Mitchell deserves a start. Having been highly critical of Dombrandt he has shown improvement from game to game and was good against wales. Itoje however is definitely being picked on reputation not form, time to give another second row a chance. Dropping Itoje to the bench might be the incentive for him to raise his game or it will show us if he's passed his best and needs to be out of the squad.
Wales didn't get close to getting over the line other than a gifted interception, fair play to Bothwick and of course Kevin Sinfield for a dramatic improvement defensively.
France are looking a little venerable as Scotland showed at times yesterday so I think we've got a chance as we've got them at Twickenham in two weeks. We're not however going to lay a finger on Ireland in Dublin in the final week, particularly as they're highly likely to be chasing a grand slam.
15
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: England v Italy (spoiler)
« on: February 13, 2023, 11:19:30 AM »
Clearly England needed to change from the stagnant dross and endless media-baiting nonsense that Jones served up. I wasn't sure that Borthwick was the answer but given how impressively he turned Tigers fortunes around I was prepared to give him a chance. I can't say he endeared himself when one of the first things he did was retain OF at skipper meaning he is nailed on as a starter. He is not the best English fly half by some measure and as many have mentioned his kicking stats are slipping.
Whilst there was noticeable improvement yesterday, particularly defensively and at set piece, there were still tactical and selection issues that I just don't understand. It was clearly a pre-meditated tactic to kick behind at every opportunity. it yielded precisely sod-all, a decent skipper would have realised that there was a better chance of scoring by holding on to the bloody ball rather than kicking it straight back to the opposition back 3, particularly when one of them is Capuozzo, just ask Welsh fans how wise that is.
Please tell me what Borthwick sees in Dombrandt, if you want to talk about test match animals, he isn't one. Another who is outstanding for his club but just isn't up to the standard for International rugby. He was marginally better yesterday but having given Jack Willis a start and been rewarded with an outstanding performance- I thought he was unlucky not to get Man of the Match- why not give his brother Tom a try?
The most embarrassing selection is undoubtedly Cole and Vunipola on the bench. They are simply far too slow, end of. It was pitiful how laboured they were defensively when Italy started throwing the ball around. If it's pouring with rain and a mud bath they might warrant a place but in half decent conditions England's intensity drops off the chart when they come on, the total opposite of what your replacements should bring to the game.
France and Ireland will murder us on the evidence so far, particularly in the final quarter.
Whilst there was noticeable improvement yesterday, particularly defensively and at set piece, there were still tactical and selection issues that I just don't understand. It was clearly a pre-meditated tactic to kick behind at every opportunity. it yielded precisely sod-all, a decent skipper would have realised that there was a better chance of scoring by holding on to the bloody ball rather than kicking it straight back to the opposition back 3, particularly when one of them is Capuozzo, just ask Welsh fans how wise that is.
Please tell me what Borthwick sees in Dombrandt, if you want to talk about test match animals, he isn't one. Another who is outstanding for his club but just isn't up to the standard for International rugby. He was marginally better yesterday but having given Jack Willis a start and been rewarded with an outstanding performance- I thought he was unlucky not to get Man of the Match- why not give his brother Tom a try?
The most embarrassing selection is undoubtedly Cole and Vunipola on the bench. They are simply far too slow, end of. It was pitiful how laboured they were defensively when Italy started throwing the ball around. If it's pouring with rain and a mud bath they might warrant a place but in half decent conditions England's intensity drops off the chart when they come on, the total opposite of what your replacements should bring to the game.
France and Ireland will murder us on the evidence so far, particularly in the final quarter.