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1
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Should amateur days return?
« on: May 21, 2023, 09:18:42 AM »
On the face of it the notion is ridiculous. How could English rugby remain competitive at club and international level should this happen? Players would go abroad en mass or leave altogether.
However it may not be as fanciful an idea. Let us be honest Saracens apart - and I do not want this to become a discussion on the nefarious deeds - no other club really challenges in Europes top tier anymore. Since the last PGA agreement where ?200 million was given to the clubs, our national team has wandered between average to woeful. The RFU Sue Day financial findings are reported to show a ?50 million loss which could raise to near on ?80 million by 2025. The clubs are all losing money hand over fist, and if the next PGA does not give further funds more strife could occur. Add in that a 10 team closed shop of a league hardly inspires & the Premiership rugby cup is a poor event that is poorly supported, which all allied above is unlikely to be catnip to potential investors or sponsors, then suddenly amateurism does not seem so far off. It?s being run in a fairly amateur and increasingly non unified way already, with the RFU, PRL, Championship and grass roots more like individual factions rather than the same family. Sugar daddies prop up clubs, and those without are starting to fall, who?s next? London Irish? But I doubt it will stop there.
Yes amateur status would be a tough pill to swallow, however for those of us who remember the amateur days, it isn?t altogether such a bad notion? More clubs could possibly thrive in an environment that is less about the bottom line, and more about having fun. The top league elitism vs the rest could potentially dissolve overnight. Yes the chances of success international & European club level would be vanishingly remote. But would it lead to a competitive game at all levels domestically? It?s not impossible.
Perhaps the above is extreme and even more unlikely to occur, but one thing is for certain, the game is heading for a cliff edge with disastrous consequences if unchecked. Sometimes extreme circumstances require extreme solutions.
However it may not be as fanciful an idea. Let us be honest Saracens apart - and I do not want this to become a discussion on the nefarious deeds - no other club really challenges in Europes top tier anymore. Since the last PGA agreement where ?200 million was given to the clubs, our national team has wandered between average to woeful. The RFU Sue Day financial findings are reported to show a ?50 million loss which could raise to near on ?80 million by 2025. The clubs are all losing money hand over fist, and if the next PGA does not give further funds more strife could occur. Add in that a 10 team closed shop of a league hardly inspires & the Premiership rugby cup is a poor event that is poorly supported, which all allied above is unlikely to be catnip to potential investors or sponsors, then suddenly amateurism does not seem so far off. It?s being run in a fairly amateur and increasingly non unified way already, with the RFU, PRL, Championship and grass roots more like individual factions rather than the same family. Sugar daddies prop up clubs, and those without are starting to fall, who?s next? London Irish? But I doubt it will stop there.
Yes amateur status would be a tough pill to swallow, however for those of us who remember the amateur days, it isn?t altogether such a bad notion? More clubs could possibly thrive in an environment that is less about the bottom line, and more about having fun. The top league elitism vs the rest could potentially dissolve overnight. Yes the chances of success international & European club level would be vanishingly remote. But would it lead to a competitive game at all levels domestically? It?s not impossible.
Perhaps the above is extreme and even more unlikely to occur, but one thing is for certain, the game is heading for a cliff edge with disastrous consequences if unchecked. Sometimes extreme circumstances require extreme solutions.
2
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Time for positivity.
« on: January 14, 2023, 12:07:13 PM »
Time for us to look forward rather than back! So on this wet old winters day why don’t we name one positive/good/exciting reason each about our return next season. For me….
Games at clubs like London Scottish, Richmond. Not on TV so like the BBC Grandstand/amateur days where you actually go to the games to see it, thus sharing time with oppo fans and families in a smaller more exciting atmosphere.
Games at clubs like London Scottish, Richmond. Not on TV so like the BBC Grandstand/amateur days where you actually go to the games to see it, thus sharing time with oppo fans and families in a smaller more exciting atmosphere.
3
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Wasps v Northampton Saints: Post match thoughts.
« on: October 09, 2022, 05:33:17 PM »
Groundhog Day
Wide channels wide open
TCUP MIA
First up, well done Saints. Played the full 80, had one chance to win it and did so. When they started running hard and straight in the wide channels with runners on the shoulders to take the offload we crumbled. Indeed when we went down to 14 if it were not for a pass not given or knock on with a hole in our defensive line then their win would of been more comfortable.
Us, well despite throwing away leads being a recurring theme for us now we do like to find new ways to do it. 8 points clear with less than 3 minutes to go should be a win 99.9% of the time. Yet our defensive shape fell apart and our intensity disappeared. We got what we deserved.
Their was however good moments, Willis was immense. Oedendaal and Mills have potential as a centre paring (yet they need to switch positions). Atkinson composed, McDonald is stepping up well, even though he needs to learn that knock on under no pressure from kick offs will be punished.
But this is 2 points snatched from a possible 5. Maybe it will not matter in a couple of weeks, equally maybe it will if we survive. It is moments like this, second half’s like Gloucester and Bristol that cost you and make top 4
Fanciful, too 6 unlikely and bottom 4 deserved.
My heart goes out to Biyi as at the end he looked heartbroken, sitting directly behind where he was leaning against the post it was hard to watch, but heartening that he cares about this club and his team so clearly!
Lee et al needs to sort this…..and soon.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
Wide channels wide open
TCUP MIA
First up, well done Saints. Played the full 80, had one chance to win it and did so. When they started running hard and straight in the wide channels with runners on the shoulders to take the offload we crumbled. Indeed when we went down to 14 if it were not for a pass not given or knock on with a hole in our defensive line then their win would of been more comfortable.
Us, well despite throwing away leads being a recurring theme for us now we do like to find new ways to do it. 8 points clear with less than 3 minutes to go should be a win 99.9% of the time. Yet our defensive shape fell apart and our intensity disappeared. We got what we deserved.
Their was however good moments, Willis was immense. Oedendaal and Mills have potential as a centre paring (yet they need to switch positions). Atkinson composed, McDonald is stepping up well, even though he needs to learn that knock on under no pressure from kick offs will be punished.
But this is 2 points snatched from a possible 5. Maybe it will not matter in a couple of weeks, equally maybe it will if we survive. It is moments like this, second half’s like Gloucester and Bristol that cost you and make top 4
Fanciful, too 6 unlikely and bottom 4 deserved.
My heart goes out to Biyi as at the end he looked heartbroken, sitting directly behind where he was leaning against the post it was hard to watch, but heartening that he cares about this club and his team so clearly!
Lee et al needs to sort this…..and soon.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
4
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Monday Morning Mull.
« on: September 26, 2022, 07:37:58 AM »
Another weekend of rugby action has passed, tries rained down, previously thought ‘comfortable’ half time leads are anything but. The confusion of what is a forward pass once again reigns supreme. Yet thoughts are more focused on bigger issues. We find out today if Worcester can continue whilst we ourselves stand at the foot of the guillotine wondering whether we will be called up to place our head on the chopping block, or whether a 11th hour reprieve arrives.
To say rugby is at a crossroads in England is an accurate assessment. It is well known the financial difficulties abound through every team. Half the league could easily have the same issues as ourselves and Worcester. At least 4 more are kept afloat on the back of wealthy benefactors. However like the scorpion and the frog, it only takes one sting from their business owners and they too will flounder in rugby’s waters. I have read with interest supporters from other clubs views that more teams falling by the wayside will lead to a better product. Even a certain journalists assertion that 2 Welsh teams joining the league could enrich its standing is seen as a positive. Yet such thoughts are a fallacy. Would these posters feel the same if their clubs stood as we do now? Unlikely. Would harvesting and harming another leagues teams to replace our own losses do anything to increase the credibility and desirability of our own? Even less so. The professional era was presented as a wonderful step forward. We -shamefully- turned our eyes from historical teams suffering. Coventry, Orel, Blackheath, Richmond, Waterloo fell or regressed. Even recent discomfort felt as London Welsh came and went was hidden by Exeter’s emergence. Our Emperor’s PRL and RFU tried to redress the problems. But their lack of support both monetarily and practically to the Championship and rugby pyramid meant even the most glamorous dressed up ideas from them could not hold. Well the clothes are now off, the Emperors naked and only decisions of value and integrity can change the outcomes we and the game are facing.
So this Monday morning let us celebrate the rugby on the field, whatever problems it has it is still something that unites us all. But Coventry rugby said it best, no matter our allegiances and club, we are brothers and sisters in the same rugby family. No one should hope for teams to fail, or to find it as a positive as long as their team survives. Pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest is why we are where we are today.
I hope Worcester survive with all my heart, for their players, their employees, their fans -our brothers and sisters- and for the game as a whole.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
To say rugby is at a crossroads in England is an accurate assessment. It is well known the financial difficulties abound through every team. Half the league could easily have the same issues as ourselves and Worcester. At least 4 more are kept afloat on the back of wealthy benefactors. However like the scorpion and the frog, it only takes one sting from their business owners and they too will flounder in rugby’s waters. I have read with interest supporters from other clubs views that more teams falling by the wayside will lead to a better product. Even a certain journalists assertion that 2 Welsh teams joining the league could enrich its standing is seen as a positive. Yet such thoughts are a fallacy. Would these posters feel the same if their clubs stood as we do now? Unlikely. Would harvesting and harming another leagues teams to replace our own losses do anything to increase the credibility and desirability of our own? Even less so. The professional era was presented as a wonderful step forward. We -shamefully- turned our eyes from historical teams suffering. Coventry, Orel, Blackheath, Richmond, Waterloo fell or regressed. Even recent discomfort felt as London Welsh came and went was hidden by Exeter’s emergence. Our Emperor’s PRL and RFU tried to redress the problems. But their lack of support both monetarily and practically to the Championship and rugby pyramid meant even the most glamorous dressed up ideas from them could not hold. Well the clothes are now off, the Emperors naked and only decisions of value and integrity can change the outcomes we and the game are facing.
So this Monday morning let us celebrate the rugby on the field, whatever problems it has it is still something that unites us all. But Coventry rugby said it best, no matter our allegiances and club, we are brothers and sisters in the same rugby family. No one should hope for teams to fail, or to find it as a positive as long as their team survives. Pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest is why we are where we are today.
I hope Worcester survive with all my heart, for their players, their employees, their fans -our brothers and sisters- and for the game as a whole.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
5
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Bath v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts.
« on: September 23, 2022, 09:43:07 PM »
The good, the bad and the lucky
Will the monkey off our back finally stop these second forty performances?
Enjoy the win, do not ignore the frailties.
You know what they say, 29 points is a shaky old lead in rugby. They like to keep us on tenterhooks. Once again it is a Jekyll and Hyde performance. 5 point away wins are not to be sniffed at, but we cannot keep doing what we are doing in second halves. Is it tactics? Is it psychological? Is it a combination…..possibly.
Let’s hope though that this is the start of better days, that in 2 weeks we have a club to continue loving and supporting.
Get the beers out boys.
Chris
Once A Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
Will the monkey off our back finally stop these second forty performances?
Enjoy the win, do not ignore the frailties.
You know what they say, 29 points is a shaky old lead in rugby. They like to keep us on tenterhooks. Once again it is a Jekyll and Hyde performance. 5 point away wins are not to be sniffed at, but we cannot keep doing what we are doing in second halves. Is it tactics? Is it psychological? Is it a combination…..possibly.
Let’s hope though that this is the start of better days, that in 2 weeks we have a club to continue loving and supporting.
Get the beers out boys.
Chris
Once A Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
6
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Monday Morning Mull.
« on: September 19, 2022, 09:59:00 AM »
The ratings -well Bobby's - are in, the match reports written, the post-match interviews complete, emotions tempered (somewhat) and views now look ahead to Friday night against Bath.
This is rapidly becoming an acid test for Lee and his coaches. One cannot deny that the building blocks are in place. Time together, training facilities right up there as some of the best available. But something is not clicking.
We can look to player turnover. Malaki, Gopps, Young Young leaving. However, were they really pulling up trees last season? The academy is starting to bear fruit, and that will take a few seasons to start establishing that conveyor belt of talent that will benefit us so much. But there is a core of players and leaders in this squad that should be doing better. To give up a 21-point lead one week, and then have a complete skill failure the next with over 20 turnovers of possession and 18 knock on's is a worry. In the premiership you give up chances and possession at your peril. 1 point from a possible 10 is fair reflection.
Catch, pass, kick. These should be part of the natural rhythm of any rugby player at this level, we are having to learn that all over. Last season was a worry in all 3, and it is still a headache today. Is this due to many years of mindless kick tennis, possibly. What should be an art form - accurate box kicking, kicking for touch to win the territory battle, catching a high ball rather than mindlessly slapping it back (sometimes) - has been gradually eroded. Rather than performed with the guile of an artists stroke of the brush it is more akin to a finger painting.
Lee is a nice guy, and we have a nice team. But look to your teams that garner success. Leicester with a Martin Johnson and recently Genge. Us with a certain LBND. Bath with Stuart Barnes. You need a rock, someone that carries an aura not only that reverberates around the training ground and changing room, but can also diminish even the most fervent opposition and their support. Add in a Soupcon of a coach like a Gatland, Edwards, Cockerill or a Borthwick who not only lead but inspire those to run through brick walls then you have a formula that a sport like rugby really needs. Would they tolerate one of their key lieutenants going off on a sojourn as we have with Mitchell and missing a whole preseason? I think we all know that answer. We need leaders on and off the field who are more likely to challenge you to an arm wrestle than shake your hand.
This Monday we sit at a crossroads, we are behind the 8 ball when we look towards at least 8 other teams in this league. It is not something that will change overnight, yet Friday has gained extra importance. Bath are, like us, struggling to find their own recipe for success, it is a battle at the bottom. This has become THAT moment for Lee and the lads to show us that we should be looking upwards come Saturday morning.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
This is rapidly becoming an acid test for Lee and his coaches. One cannot deny that the building blocks are in place. Time together, training facilities right up there as some of the best available. But something is not clicking.
We can look to player turnover. Malaki, Gopps, Young Young leaving. However, were they really pulling up trees last season? The academy is starting to bear fruit, and that will take a few seasons to start establishing that conveyor belt of talent that will benefit us so much. But there is a core of players and leaders in this squad that should be doing better. To give up a 21-point lead one week, and then have a complete skill failure the next with over 20 turnovers of possession and 18 knock on's is a worry. In the premiership you give up chances and possession at your peril. 1 point from a possible 10 is fair reflection.
Catch, pass, kick. These should be part of the natural rhythm of any rugby player at this level, we are having to learn that all over. Last season was a worry in all 3, and it is still a headache today. Is this due to many years of mindless kick tennis, possibly. What should be an art form - accurate box kicking, kicking for touch to win the territory battle, catching a high ball rather than mindlessly slapping it back (sometimes) - has been gradually eroded. Rather than performed with the guile of an artists stroke of the brush it is more akin to a finger painting.
Lee is a nice guy, and we have a nice team. But look to your teams that garner success. Leicester with a Martin Johnson and recently Genge. Us with a certain LBND. Bath with Stuart Barnes. You need a rock, someone that carries an aura not only that reverberates around the training ground and changing room, but can also diminish even the most fervent opposition and their support. Add in a Soupcon of a coach like a Gatland, Edwards, Cockerill or a Borthwick who not only lead but inspire those to run through brick walls then you have a formula that a sport like rugby really needs. Would they tolerate one of their key lieutenants going off on a sojourn as we have with Mitchell and missing a whole preseason? I think we all know that answer. We need leaders on and off the field who are more likely to challenge you to an arm wrestle than shake your hand.
This Monday we sit at a crossroads, we are behind the 8 ball when we look towards at least 8 other teams in this league. It is not something that will change overnight, yet Friday has gained extra importance. Bath are, like us, struggling to find their own recipe for success, it is a battle at the bottom. This has become THAT moment for Lee and the lads to show us that we should be looking upwards come Saturday morning.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
7
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Wasps v Bristol: Post Match Thoughts.
« on: September 17, 2022, 05:00:38 PM »
Elliot Stooke in commentary today called it best.....'I am speechless'.
A comedy of errors
So much good and so much bad.
Where and how in the world do you start to dissect that. There was some really lovely stuff today, we were getting over the gain line, Tom Willis was absolutely immense. Barbeary worked hard, Cruise was solid, MacDonald and Launchers look great in the second row. Crossdale was an absolute threat with ball in hand.
But 18 handling errors! 18!!!.....I will say it once more.......
18!!!
It would be laughable, but this has cost us massively, 0 points.
Rugby is based upon small margins, but sometimes a litany of small margins cause big consequences.
Fair play to Bristol, under the pump. But did their homework and hit us hard. 2 first phase tries going through the 12-15 channels exposed the lack of unity and understanding in the back line. The backs look better, but they have a long long way to travel if we are hoping to get into the Champions cup next year. Big question marks also exist over our wide defence, it is porous and needs fixing.
Flats puts it best at the end of the game. "Wasps were miles off in terms of accuracy, concentration and execution".
2 games, 1 point. And to be fair none of us can say we deserve anything more.
If these 2 rounds do not serve as a rocket to our lads then nothing will.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
A comedy of errors
So much good and so much bad.
Where and how in the world do you start to dissect that. There was some really lovely stuff today, we were getting over the gain line, Tom Willis was absolutely immense. Barbeary worked hard, Cruise was solid, MacDonald and Launchers look great in the second row. Crossdale was an absolute threat with ball in hand.
But 18 handling errors! 18!!!.....I will say it once more.......
18!!!
It would be laughable, but this has cost us massively, 0 points.
Rugby is based upon small margins, but sometimes a litany of small margins cause big consequences.
Fair play to Bristol, under the pump. But did their homework and hit us hard. 2 first phase tries going through the 12-15 channels exposed the lack of unity and understanding in the back line. The backs look better, but they have a long long way to travel if we are hoping to get into the Champions cup next year. Big question marks also exist over our wide defence, it is porous and needs fixing.
Flats puts it best at the end of the game. "Wasps were miles off in terms of accuracy, concentration and execution".
2 games, 1 point. And to be fair none of us can say we deserve anything more.
If these 2 rounds do not serve as a rocket to our lads then nothing will.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
8
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Morning all!
« on: September 17, 2022, 06:43:22 AM »
Morning all Waspies from a cool and calm Surrey hills! This is our first home game since the wife and I moved into our new house. But the pre match ritual of coffee and hound walking remains. The new seasons shirt is ready to be adorned and I simply cannot wait to see the lads run out in the black and gold at our stadium for the first home fixture of the new season.
Last weeks Jekyll and Hyde performance has made me nervous. We have a good squad that is growing in strength and depth, and it pleases me hugely that we are focusing on our academy and players are starting to come through. I truly believe long term success can only be achieved through a strong academy. But when we have a team that can throw away leads of over 20 points, go off the boil and lose structure and discipline then we know that is not a team that can achieve a Champions cup position let alone push for play offs a silverware.
Lee and the coaches have a lot to do, and the team a lot to prove. We need to start finding consistency in performance, keep our structure and discipline when momentum is against us and importantly convert leads into wins. For me this first half of the season is developing that, and try to push on for the second half from there. This is a battle of the mind as well as the body for our boys. Today against Briz is the start of this, a team themselves with high ambitions who will pose a huge threat.
It will be close, and even if we go out to a 30 point lead (unlikely) I will not feel comfortable. But the team has the ability to be better than it is.
Come on you Wasps!
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
Last weeks Jekyll and Hyde performance has made me nervous. We have a good squad that is growing in strength and depth, and it pleases me hugely that we are focusing on our academy and players are starting to come through. I truly believe long term success can only be achieved through a strong academy. But when we have a team that can throw away leads of over 20 points, go off the boil and lose structure and discipline then we know that is not a team that can achieve a Champions cup position let alone push for play offs a silverware.
Lee and the coaches have a lot to do, and the team a lot to prove. We need to start finding consistency in performance, keep our structure and discipline when momentum is against us and importantly convert leads into wins. For me this first half of the season is developing that, and try to push on for the second half from there. This is a battle of the mind as well as the body for our boys. Today against Briz is the start of this, a team themselves with high ambitions who will pose a huge threat.
It will be close, and even if we go out to a 30 point lead (unlikely) I will not feel comfortable. But the team has the ability to be better than it is.
Come on you Wasps!
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
9
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Lee's most important next signing.
« on: September 11, 2022, 07:26:33 PM »
....A world class Psychologist.
Rugby is a battle of the mind as well as the body. Without one the other simply will not work. We have evidence prior to today, however the Glos game exposed this fragility fully. Even at 21-0 up I did not feel comfortable, and I wager there were no Wasps fans out there who felt differently. We have plenty of examples from last season -v Irish is the easiest to recall- but the way we dip in and out of games is worrying in its regularity.
TCUP
A simple term that we do not have. The first 40 showed we have a team that can put anyone to the sword, and I do not believe Glos were poor in that first 40, we dictated the narrative. That is the biggest positive, we have a team that can get to the top. The biggest hurdle to this however is that which lies within, and that is currently our teams greatest challenge.
Rugby is a battle of the mind as well as the body. Without one the other simply will not work. We have evidence prior to today, however the Glos game exposed this fragility fully. Even at 21-0 up I did not feel comfortable, and I wager there were no Wasps fans out there who felt differently. We have plenty of examples from last season -v Irish is the easiest to recall- but the way we dip in and out of games is worrying in its regularity.
TCUP
A simple term that we do not have. The first 40 showed we have a team that can put anyone to the sword, and I do not believe Glos were poor in that first 40, we dictated the narrative. That is the biggest positive, we have a team that can get to the top. The biggest hurdle to this however is that which lies within, and that is currently our teams greatest challenge.
10
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Gloucester v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts
« on: September 11, 2022, 05:01:20 PM »
A game of two halves.
A first 40 to remember, a second forty to never forget.
New season, same mental fragility remains.
First up, well done Gloucester, were under the pump throughout that first forty, whist we looked accurate, precise and deserved our first half lead. However Gloucester absolutely spun the momentum in the second forty. Rees Zammits pitch length try was a fantastic sprint. But it was how they took the momentum, kept it and turned the screw. We shipped points, then penalties and cards. It was a rugby lesson, and the fact our shape, discipline and strength evaporated is simply due to Gloucester being better.
Despite it being a new season old problems remain. When we go off the boil we go off spectacularly. No professional team should be giving up these size leads and expect to be top 8, let alone pushing for Europe. Is it time to get the psychologists in because when momentum shifts we do not seem to have the leadership or ability to correct it.
As an aside though, as good as Gloucesters team are their supporters leave a lot to be desired. The shed did not lift them -so anyone stating otherwise needs to rewatch the game- It was Gloucester that roused them. It was quiet as a grave when they were losing, and boos were heard, and the "you dont know what you're doing" aimed at sir rang aplenty. Yet when they were winning the "same old Wasps always cheating" rang around on more than one occasion. This is the behaviour of football fans not rugby. It was as unpalatable and uncalled for & did their club a complete disservice. That however should not detract one second from their teams wonderful 2nd half performance and deserved win.
For us, there are glimmers there to be hopeful for. Certainly there were moments of play that can give us hope. Players like MacDonald, Atkinson, Ryan and Odedaal look hugely promising.
This one hurts but the result is the right one.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
A first 40 to remember, a second forty to never forget.
New season, same mental fragility remains.
First up, well done Gloucester, were under the pump throughout that first forty, whist we looked accurate, precise and deserved our first half lead. However Gloucester absolutely spun the momentum in the second forty. Rees Zammits pitch length try was a fantastic sprint. But it was how they took the momentum, kept it and turned the screw. We shipped points, then penalties and cards. It was a rugby lesson, and the fact our shape, discipline and strength evaporated is simply due to Gloucester being better.
Despite it being a new season old problems remain. When we go off the boil we go off spectacularly. No professional team should be giving up these size leads and expect to be top 8, let alone pushing for Europe. Is it time to get the psychologists in because when momentum shifts we do not seem to have the leadership or ability to correct it.
As an aside though, as good as Gloucesters team are their supporters leave a lot to be desired. The shed did not lift them -so anyone stating otherwise needs to rewatch the game- It was Gloucester that roused them. It was quiet as a grave when they were losing, and boos were heard, and the "you dont know what you're doing" aimed at sir rang aplenty. Yet when they were winning the "same old Wasps always cheating" rang around on more than one occasion. This is the behaviour of football fans not rugby. It was as unpalatable and uncalled for & did their club a complete disservice. That however should not detract one second from their teams wonderful 2nd half performance and deserved win.
For us, there are glimmers there to be hopeful for. Certainly there were moments of play that can give us hope. Players like MacDonald, Atkinson, Ryan and Odedaal look hugely promising.
This one hurts but the result is the right one.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp.
11
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Season 22/23 countdown!!!
« on: September 04, 2022, 10:01:16 PM »
https://www.countdown.date/id/17686/gloucester-v-wasps
Its close....It is so close I can feel it, I can taste it....and I love it!
For all of us in the black and gold, this is our time!
Lets
Get
loud!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZE8fmOGVC0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=3
Its close....It is so close I can feel it, I can taste it....and I love it!
For all of us in the black and gold, this is our time!
Lets
Get
loud!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZE8fmOGVC0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=3
12
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Sky blues talk in a forgiving mood!
« on: August 07, 2022, 06:04:16 PM »
https://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/wasps-out.144188/
How to make friends and influence people! Looks like the SISU apple does not fall far from the supporters tree.
We must remember this is a tiny proportion of the sky blue support, but so far the reaction to the pitch issue and our ongoing problems is;
1: support SISU and Seppla in suing the club
2: disrupt rugby match day events
3: Harass, bully, intimate local people who have decided -freely- to support our club and forcing them not to attend.
4: Put up abusive posters/banners calling for us to go
5: Attempt to force sponsors to abandon their support by individually targeting them and not doing business
Some views there which would get the support of certain Russian or Chinese government autocrats!
CCFC are not really sustainable and more a house of cards, and to be fair unless we turn around our financial fortunes so are we….However our strength is in our measurable assets and multi income stream ability…..but it must improve. Yet before the pandemic we were heading to break even. Both CCFC and Wasps should be working together for the benefit of all as the separate models don’t really seem to be working!
How to make friends and influence people! Looks like the SISU apple does not fall far from the supporters tree.
We must remember this is a tiny proportion of the sky blue support, but so far the reaction to the pitch issue and our ongoing problems is;
1: support SISU and Seppla in suing the club
2: disrupt rugby match day events
3: Harass, bully, intimate local people who have decided -freely- to support our club and forcing them not to attend.
4: Put up abusive posters/banners calling for us to go
5: Attempt to force sponsors to abandon their support by individually targeting them and not doing business
Some views there which would get the support of certain Russian or Chinese government autocrats!
CCFC are not really sustainable and more a house of cards, and to be fair unless we turn around our financial fortunes so are we….However our strength is in our measurable assets and multi income stream ability…..but it must improve. Yet before the pandemic we were heading to break even. Both CCFC and Wasps should be working together for the benefit of all as the separate models don’t really seem to be working!
13
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Leicester v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts
« on: June 04, 2022, 04:59:46 PM »
Forwards hold your heads up, Backs hang them.
Do not deserve to be in the Champions Cup.
Question marks strongly over our coaching team.
First things first, well done Tigers. They spent large quantities of the game with neither field position or possession, yet their defence held up wonderfully, and despite a breakaway try from us from Porter they had us comfortably under control. A true measure of them though was when their chances came, they took them, they will be very hard to beat this season.
We though, where do you begin. I guess lets start with the positives. Our forwards throughout this season have grown as a unit, the line out, scrum looks far more solid, and definitely it is something to build on. With a pre season under their belts the likes of Launchers, Willis brother, Alfie, West and co really can hit the ground running. What is shameful though is the backs. At the start of the season we were missing many players at times, but at least they looked coherent, could go through phases and defend as a unit. This however over the last few rounds has completely crumbled, the defence in the wider channels were particularly absent, the play fractured, and today was a clear example where they can no longer go through more than one phase without falling apart. They all run different lines, get in each others way, make schoolboy errors with dropped passes, missed tackles and missed passes. Atkinson is too anonymous, Umaga (although not there today), Robbo, Umaga too inconsistent. Gopps -although a legend- too slow. There are problems across the entire division. A lot of players need to prove an awful lot next year.
But to blame them as a whole would be unfair. All of what I have mentioned above also falls squarely on the coaches. When an entire backs division is THAT bad, the likelihood is the coaches who have coached them have let them down. I do not think we have a specific backs coach, but our skills coach and Lee will need to take a large amount of blame. It is their failures that has led to us not getting into the champions cup, and that does have large ramifications on our attractiveness as a club and also our ability to get that which we really need, exposure and revenue. I will be honest here and admit I am furious at how bad things have gone in the backs, but that fury has not clouded my judgement, as despite today being a great example of how bad our backs have become, it is a opinion formed on watching every game this season.
We need a backs coach desperately, the lack of cohesion of the backs, picking players out of position, having centres that made little impact no matter the parings, the complete lack of ability to play multi phase with ball in hand, the lack of skill, the poor decision making, it all needs fixing, and what we know now is that Lee and the current coaches cannot do it on their own, this season is proof of such. We made huge positive steps with our forwards and all that has been lost with the collapse of the backs....this is for the coaches to own.
Next season now is huge for us! We have to get into the top 4, we have to get into the Champions cup. Is Lee the man to take us forward, I am not sure at present. I certainly do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because the forwards have improved. But we will need to see tangible results next year. The forwards deserve better from the backs, and the backs clearly deserve better from the coaches. If we see what we have seen in the second half of this season at the start of the next, then coaching changes will need to be made rapidly, Lee and the coaches have now been in place long enough to start moving this team forward, because since the final against Exeter we have moved tangibly backwards, and next season it is going to hurt us, not only because we will be watching from the outside of the biggest European tournament, but because we are financially worse off due to it.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
Do not deserve to be in the Champions Cup.
Question marks strongly over our coaching team.
First things first, well done Tigers. They spent large quantities of the game with neither field position or possession, yet their defence held up wonderfully, and despite a breakaway try from us from Porter they had us comfortably under control. A true measure of them though was when their chances came, they took them, they will be very hard to beat this season.
We though, where do you begin. I guess lets start with the positives. Our forwards throughout this season have grown as a unit, the line out, scrum looks far more solid, and definitely it is something to build on. With a pre season under their belts the likes of Launchers, Willis brother, Alfie, West and co really can hit the ground running. What is shameful though is the backs. At the start of the season we were missing many players at times, but at least they looked coherent, could go through phases and defend as a unit. This however over the last few rounds has completely crumbled, the defence in the wider channels were particularly absent, the play fractured, and today was a clear example where they can no longer go through more than one phase without falling apart. They all run different lines, get in each others way, make schoolboy errors with dropped passes, missed tackles and missed passes. Atkinson is too anonymous, Umaga (although not there today), Robbo, Umaga too inconsistent. Gopps -although a legend- too slow. There are problems across the entire division. A lot of players need to prove an awful lot next year.
But to blame them as a whole would be unfair. All of what I have mentioned above also falls squarely on the coaches. When an entire backs division is THAT bad, the likelihood is the coaches who have coached them have let them down. I do not think we have a specific backs coach, but our skills coach and Lee will need to take a large amount of blame. It is their failures that has led to us not getting into the champions cup, and that does have large ramifications on our attractiveness as a club and also our ability to get that which we really need, exposure and revenue. I will be honest here and admit I am furious at how bad things have gone in the backs, but that fury has not clouded my judgement, as despite today being a great example of how bad our backs have become, it is a opinion formed on watching every game this season.
We need a backs coach desperately, the lack of cohesion of the backs, picking players out of position, having centres that made little impact no matter the parings, the complete lack of ability to play multi phase with ball in hand, the lack of skill, the poor decision making, it all needs fixing, and what we know now is that Lee and the current coaches cannot do it on their own, this season is proof of such. We made huge positive steps with our forwards and all that has been lost with the collapse of the backs....this is for the coaches to own.
Next season now is huge for us! We have to get into the top 4, we have to get into the Champions cup. Is Lee the man to take us forward, I am not sure at present. I certainly do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because the forwards have improved. But we will need to see tangible results next year. The forwards deserve better from the backs, and the backs clearly deserve better from the coaches. If we see what we have seen in the second half of this season at the start of the next, then coaching changes will need to be made rapidly, Lee and the coaches have now been in place long enough to start moving this team forward, because since the final against Exeter we have moved tangibly backwards, and next season it is going to hurt us, not only because we will be watching from the outside of the biggest European tournament, but because we are financially worse off due to it.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
14
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Morning all!
« on: June 04, 2022, 06:45:16 AM »
Good morning from a grey, but jubilee festive Guildford! As usual I am up with the lark, coffee is on the go and dog walking awaits. Yet before silly season begins and the lads take a well deserved rest we have one more task against Leicester Tigers to get through.
Today is really simple….win! Style, performance does not matter, that is for pre season and the warm up games before next term. Even if today is the ugliest win we ever produce the reward is champions cup rugby, and being in that tournament is important. It gives greater exposure and revenue to the club, and as players, coaches and fans we all want to be tilting for the biggest trophies against the biggest teams. Tigers are fully loaded and are going for the Premiership trophy and a home semi final, they will be pumped and motivated. But it is against odds like these the true nature of the team comes out. A win for us can be that moment in years to come where we look back, and go that was when our success began!
Come on you Wasps!
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
Today is really simple….win! Style, performance does not matter, that is for pre season and the warm up games before next term. Even if today is the ugliest win we ever produce the reward is champions cup rugby, and being in that tournament is important. It gives greater exposure and revenue to the club, and as players, coaches and fans we all want to be tilting for the biggest trophies against the biggest teams. Tigers are fully loaded and are going for the Premiership trophy and a home semi final, they will be pumped and motivated. But it is against odds like these the true nature of the team comes out. A win for us can be that moment in years to come where we look back, and go that was when our success began!
Come on you Wasps!
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
15
Wasps Rugby Discussion / We have a chance for HC rugby.
« on: May 21, 2022, 05:03:48 PM »
Not sure we deserve it, but Irish’s unexpected loss to Bath gives us a slight chance for HC rugby next season. All we have to do is get a win at Tigers! 