Cheating double standards?

[westwaleswasp]

Iirc Rose is back in the truck nowadays, a TMO? 

[Trevs Big Tackle]

If I remember right it was the timing of the pizza delivery that sparked a lot of the conspiracy theories. Photos of the players sat on the bus just after kick-off time tucking into a slice. I didn't realise the pizzas were ordered, pretty much as standard it sounds, for non-playing staff.

[RogerE]

If I remember right it was the timing of the pizza delivery that sparked a lot of the conspiracy theories. Photos of the players sat on the bus just after kick-off time tucking into a slice. I didn't realise the pizzas were ordered, pretty much as standard it sounds, for non-playing staff.

Don't know if it still happens, but was standard at all away matches during the Gats/Shaun era

[baldpaul101]

Some interesting responses.

it would seem that there are levels of cheating some acceptable and seen as part of game, others not so.

It would also seem that the argument that "everyones doing it" used by Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong and a lot of Sarries supports can sometimes be mixed into the above as well. "Cheating at a low level is OK as everyone does it"

Saracens will be welcomed back to the Premiership if and when they are proved to be on a level playing field with the rest of the clubs.

I'm not entirely sure that will go for everyone given the strength of feeling on here and elsewhere. I think the suspicion of cheating will stick with them for many years, just like the whiff of it was there before anything was proved.


Not seeking to criticise anyone else's opinion, I'm genuinely interested in how different people see cheating.

[matelot22]

Some interesting responses.

it would seem that there are levels of cheating some acceptable and seen as part of game, others not so.

It would also seem that the argument that "everyones doing it" used by Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong and a lot of Sarries supports can sometimes be mixed into the above as well. "Cheating at a low level is OK as everyone does it"

Saracens will be welcomed back to the Premiership if and when they are proved to be on a level playing field with the rest of the clubs.

I'm not entirely sure that will go for everyone given the strength of feeling on here and elsewhere. I think the suspicion of cheating will stick with them for many years, just like the whiff of it was there before anything was proved.


Not seeking to criticise anyone else's opinion, I'm genuinely interested in how different people see cheating.

I think that as long as Wray is involved with them in any capacity whatsoever, they will never be fully trusted

[welsh wasp]

Surely the basic premise is that once you have served your time/ban, then you are back playing. That applies to Tom Young’s after punching Rowlands (??) as to individual players & teams. Those of us who have had penalty points on our driving licences know that applies to us in terms of how long the points last. And it applies to people who have been jailed.

Re Sale & mud, there was a similar issue when we were due to play Gloucester at Loftus Road. Nigel Melville was their DOR after leaving Wasps & he felt the pitch was too frozen to play on. I was sitting in the stand with other spectators when we were told it had been cancelled. Probably the right decision to cancel. I think there was a similar issue at Adams Park but can’t remember the details.

[DGP Wasp]

I think there was a similar issue at Adams Park but can’t remember the details.

It was the season following the pizza incident I think - maybe the next again, but soon enough for those events to still be fresh in the minds.  And our opponents that day were.... you've guessed it, Sale.

Was a 6N weekend and had been pushed to a later kick off to allow England's game to be shown beforehand.  Someone forgot to turn on the undersoil heating and by kick off the pitch was frozen solid.  This was at a time when Wasps contributed a lot of players to England plus other internationals, so the accusation was that it was a deliberate move by Wasps to allow us to play the re-scheduled game with a full squad.

[baldpaul101]

Didn't know the full background on pizzagate i.e. a player nearly drowning in a previous game, thanks for posting Roger.

[RogerE]

I think there was a similar issue at Adams Park but can’t remember the details.

It was the season following the pizza incident I think - maybe the next again, but soon enough for those events to still be fresh in the minds.  And our opponents that day were.... you've guessed it, Sale.

Was a 6N weekend and had been pushed to a later kick off to allow England's game to be shown beforehand.  Someone forgot to turn on the undersoil heating and by kick off the pitch was frozen solid.  This was at a time when Wasps contributed a lot of players to England plus other internationals, so the accusation was that it was a deliberate move by Wasps to allow us to play the re-scheduled game with a full squad.

As usual we were late for the match, and were walking down Hillbottom Road. It was cold at the Wycombe end, but by the time we got past the Artisan building we were both shivering like mad.

As we got within 100yards of AP gates a steward was on his walkie-talkie and told us to turn back as the match had been called-off. With that a crowd appeared from the ground, so for the first time ever we managed an easy escape from AP.

It was later admitted by Wycombe Wanderers that they had not bothered to turn-on the undersoil heating, as they didn't think the temperature would be so low.

Anyone who knows the Chilterns knows about the micro-climates in the valleys.

I gather from people that work in the area that it is not unknown for there to be a 10 degree temperature difference between each end of Hillbottom Road in the winter. It felt like it.

[Hymenoptera]

Surely the basic premise is that once you have served your time/ban, then you are back playing. That applies to Tom Young’s after punching Rowlands (??) as to individual players & teams. Those of us who have had penalty points on our driving licences know that applies to us in terms of how long the points last. And it applies to people who have been jailed.

You mean like the first time they cheated, claimed reformed, then carried on the next day?
Each to their own.

[Skippy]

The cancellation at Loftus Road was a pretty weird one. The pitch has under soil heating and it had been turned on. Quite what the issue was for Mellie, I’m not sure.

Getting back to the Beeb article. I think the biggest concern is the apparent widespread and accepted practice of doping in schools in SA. If that is the case, the current punishment regime is no way fit for purpose — it is neither discouraging future use nor changing attitudes.

[westwaleswasp]

I will always draw a distinction between onfield cheating (abusing laws, hands in the ruck, tip tackles) and off field cheating - fiscal doping, bribing refs (not saying it happens in rugby), as well as premeditated vs non premeditated cheating and repeat offences vs first time. Within each category there will be differences too- did it risk a player's welfare or just gain points that were not deserved?
You just know, I guess, what is egregious and what isn't. Instinctively.

[MarleyWasp]

Meville was still at Wasps at the time the match was postponed. He led the team in a full contact training session after the match was postponed.

He joined Gloucester a couple of months later, before the rearranged game.

[Heathen]

I think there was a similar issue at Adams Park but can’t remember the details.

It was the season following the pizza incident I think - maybe the next again, but soon enough for those events to still be fresh in the minds.  And our opponents that day were.... you've guessed it, Sale.

Was a 6N weekend and had been pushed to a later kick off to allow England's game to be shown beforehand.  Someone forgot to turn on the undersoil heating and by kick off the pitch was frozen solid.  This was at a time when Wasps contributed a lot of players to England plus other internationals, so the accusation was that it was a deliberate move by Wasps to allow us to play the re-scheduled game with a full squad.

As usual we were late for the match, and were walking down Hillbottom Road. It was cold at the Wycombe end, but by the time we got past the Artisan building we were both shivering like mad.

As we got within 100yards of AP gates a steward was on his walkie-talkie and told us to turn back as the match had been called-off. With that a crowd appeared from the ground, so for the first time ever we managed an easy escape from AP.

It was later admitted by Wycombe Wanderers that they had not bothered to turn-on the undersoil heating, as they didn't think the temperature would be so low.

Anyone who knows the Chilterns knows about the micro-climates in the valleys.

I gather from people that work in the area that it is not unknown for there to be a 10 degree temperature difference between each end of Hillbottom Road in the winter. It felt like it.

It was indeed Sale in February 2008. I had given our STs to friends that day as we were entertaining a visitor from Oz. We had gone to Henly for a stroll along the river and then have lunch. When we came out of the restaurant, I commented to Pamela that it would not surprise me, if the game would not be played. It had dropped several degrees there and the tempertaure inversion in the lee of the hill behind the FA stadium was notorius.