Fiver opens up

[Neils]

https://mol.im/a/9173577

Interesting opinions

[Shugs]

Interesting article. One thing stands out for me and I think it's the reason he's been semi nomadic during his career. It's all about him. I'm not suggesting players shouldn't look after themselves and do what they think is right. But in a game where comradery and the meaning of team is so huge I can't help but think he'd come across as an outlier. At Prem level he's a superb 10. There's no doubt. But I do also think he's become a better international 10 in the mind of quite a few by not playing. Would have been interesting to see if he could deliver on that stage but I doubt we'll find out now.

[WonkyWasp]

This is a sad feeling to have about anyone but  I do hear a voice murmuing 'They're all out of step except me.' Yes, Shugs - it is all about him..

[InBetweenWasp]

Well, it's a very different story to the one portrayed by Andy Goode that Cips had the ear of the owner and engineered the departure of Ackermann (whom he supposedly had a brilliant relationship with and a pairing that had mutual respected) and co, in order to get Rory Teague appointed as Head Coach.  Then was disappointed that Skivs got the role and Skivs knew about it and wanted him out from the get-go.

I have to say, Cips' side of the story seems a lot more plausible than Goodey's.  It would come as no surprise that he wasn't feeling 'it' after 2020 and all it entailed for him and felt like he needed a break. 

I think there's a perception driven by the press that has stuck with him.  A bit like Haskell, for all the chat about what a disruptive, self-centered squad member he supposedly was - Not one coach has come out and said he was a pain in the a** and he has quite rightly pointed out that he's player under some of the most outspoken coaches to coach the game (Gats, Eddie, Chieka...) and not one of them have said anything other than what a good professional he was.

Tindall has spoken about Danny and how he was in his early days (rocking up to Pennyhill in a rented Ferrari, then suggesting to Tinds and Jonny that he plays 10 with Jonny at 12 and Tinds at 13!), he's also spoken about how he found Danny when he get to know him as part of his Gloucester move and how different he was to how he's perceived. 

[Hymenoptera]

Goodey didn't tell his story, he relayed what he'd heard, and he has been accurate with everything Glaws, so i tend to go with that myself.
I dont think any coach has ever come out and dug a player out, its not part of the sport, but that doesn't mean they dont have opinions. The fact that Danny runs out of steam at ever club and missed his intl honours tells you something. This story is also well timed given the quotes from the now 10  from Glaws, Evans.
All about me seems pretty nailed on, which is fine..but it comes with a shelflife and limitations

[MarleyWasp]

There are a few things I've heard which Cipriani didn't mention in that article, but if I was in his position, I wouldn't be mentioning them in an interview unless they were common knowledge, which these rumours aren't.

As part of my job I'm often told different sides of the same story which paint very different pictures and more often then not the truth is somewhere in the middle. I suspect that's the case here.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I like Cips and I've always loved watching him play, but you have to ask why those stories and why now?

My takeaway is that he's signalling to Prem coaches, owners and fans that he wants back in and its OK because he didn't leave Glaws on bad terms, there was a good reason for it, but they have to act soon because he's got offers abroad.

Obviously there'll be rumours inside the clubs and this is just him getting his side of the story out there.

[Neils]

I like Cips and I've always loved watching him play, but you have to ask why those stories and why now?

My takeaway is that he's signalling to Prem coaches, owners and fans that he wants back in and its OK because he didn't leave Glaws on bad terms, there was a good reason for it, but they have to act soon because he's got offers abroad.

Obviously there'll be rumours inside the clubs and this is just him getting his side of the story out there.

A bit like Marley I think the truth is hidden in the middle somewhere. I also suspect that any club in England will know exactly what went on at the Donkeys. Some of the "rumours" about going elsewhere smacks of the "rumours" surrounding his pending departure from Wasps. I wish him well because he is one very mixed up kid but can't see anyone in the PRL risking a salary on him - now Ealing maybe!!

[hopwood]

I think there's room in rugby for all characters.
People are all conditioned differently.
People feel things differently.

Danny does go through dips...but so do most other players.
But when you play 10 and do amazing things to ignite a set of backs...and the world and their wife are watching every move intensely...then that's quite a bit of extra pressure to perform under. And maybe that's where he struggles.
And when he does struggle - maybe he gets defensive, anxious, guarded, goes into his shell etc . I don't know, because I haven't worked with him.
But he's human...and I've worked with a ton of those and everyone's doing the best job they can with what they know.
And the best coaches help with the learning process, off the field, as well as on it. People are complicated creatures.

Anyway, here is an unlikely bedfellow in Mike Brown, discussing Danny Cips the other day.

MIKE BROWN: We need entertainers like Danny Cipriani more than ever... he is the best English player of my generation and he should have well over 50 caps by now

I hope Danny Cipriani doesn’t stay out of the game for too long because the sport needs entertainers like him more than ever. He’s still got a good few years left at the top.
I first met Danny about 10 years ago. In terms of natural ability, he is the best English player of my generation. Running ability, skills, kicking, opening up defences… he has it all.
It’s a shame that we haven’t seen the best of him in an England shirt. He’s scraped together 16 caps but he should have well over 50 by now.

My dealings with Danny have always been positive. We did sprint training together with Margot Wells and trained together with England, on the handful of occasions he was selected.
We were together on the tour of South Africa in 2018 and I was pretty disappointed at how he was treated. He kept his head down, trained hard and did everything asked of him.

He played well when he got his opportunity in the final Test, but I felt like he was fighting a losing battle.
Sometimes there would be little meetings with the playmakers and Danny, despite being a No 10, was left out. He should have been involved in those kind of conversations.

It felt like there were key members of the squad threatened by Danny so they never fully brought him in.
If I were in that position and trying to put my best foot forward, I’d feel a bit unwanted.
Sometimes it felt like his errors were picked up in training where others weren’t. He’d get a bit of a roasting.

It feels to me that, over the years, England have missed the opportunity to form a world-class play-making dynamic between Cipriani, George Ford and Owen Farrell.
If you’ve got someone who can change a game, even if it’s off the bench or out of position, you’ve got to do everything you can to get them in.

Look at how the Chicago Bulls coach managed Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman and whoever else. They let guys be themselves and made it work.

Rugby has been quite old-fashioned. You have to act a certain way, although that’s gradually starting to change with guys like Ellis Genge, Joe Marler and Ben Obano feeling comfortable enough to openly show their characters and be themselves.

Danny made mistakes and was seen on the celebrity circuit, but he’s a thoughtful, articulate and intelligent guy.
If I’ve had a low moment in the game, he’s always messaged me offering support. Plenty of other team-mates I’ve had haven’t done that.

I spoke to Danny during the week. He left Gloucester on good terms. Now he’s just going to relax for a bit and enjoy time with his family, then see what new challenges are out there. If he gets a good opportunity, he’ll take it and if he doesn’t, he’ll leave it.

He’s been on the scene since he was a 17-year-old and has been playing pretty much non-stop. It’s been a tough year for him. His close friend died by suicide and he had his own personal battles in the summer.
All those things add up. Maybe he just needs a bit of a refocus, rediscover his love for the game, then look for a new challenge.
His personal life is his own business but he seems like he’s in a good place. I just hope we see him back on a pitch, sooner rather than later. Whoever snaps him up will be laughing.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9071091/Mike-Brown-need-entertainers-like-Danny-Cipriani-best-English-player-era.html

[mike909]

That's very interesting about Mike Brown's interview

If he was being left out as suggested - it's as if the other players didn't want him there (as he might show them up?)  ....and that's possibly ironic as Danny probably saved Jones' bacon with that '18 SA win, otherwise it would have 7 loses in a row and terrible 6N's. I couldn't see Jones surviving losing 3-0 off the back of losing three 6N's in a row and a Baa Baa's game.

I though he looked like he'd played to the plan - until that kick for the try - which Farrell made a face like he'd been poisoned....it's been suggested many time that gave "the game" away.

Now - I've never met the guy - I have played sports with all sorts, ditto work and there is usually a division of "fault" if things don't work out - which too often manages to get the worst out of the situation, when no one is prepared to "sit down" and mediate. And that seems to have been a common feature of his career. In many ways, sadly somewhat unfulfilled.

[Rossm]

Frédéric Michalak and Quade Cooper are two other 10s who immediately spring to mind.