The catepillar - my latest annoyance

[mike909]

Thing is it's at the end of a long list of breakdown non-application of the Laws

A quick look at M10 games in the last few years and you'd often hear the ref encouraging the application of the Laws, to even shouting "Tackle" "release" "roll" and that made the ball quickly available in the first place and to the credit of the team applying the Laws and either making the ball available to play or winning a turnover

Still getting crap about being on feet etc, when it's clearly a ruck (no hands) and non release rewarded too often

The caterpillar is another time wasting annoyance that needs another sit down of refs, coaches and unions so we can get the game played as the Laws actually describe.....

Worth a read - just on the tackle

https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=14

On ending a ruck.....

Law 15.17 is clear enough  - ruck ends...."When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds"

Just apply the damn Laws!

[Mellie]

How about this; "A ruck is deemed to be over either 5 seconds from when the referee calls Use It, or when the player in the scrum half position plays the ball. Playing the ball is defined as moving the ball from its original position with his hands or feet"

No point in players binding on to form a caterpillar as the No.9 can't move the ball to the back without being tackled. It does allow the 9 to place his hands on the ball while he makes his decision on what to do with it, the ref can call "ruck over" if he sees it moved.

Would that work?

I too think that touching the ball after it has clearly been won is the point where it should be played. Unfortunately the interpretation is that the scrum half has to lift the ball before it's fair game.

What might be a good compromise is for the referee to give commands similar to scrum engagement to be fair but encourage quicker distribution.

So as soon as the ball is obviously won he  starts the sequence. The calls would be timed like a scrum engagement so both teams can anticipate when to go. The onus is then on the side with the ball not to hang around. I suggest the calls are something like:
Available (pause) Use it or lose it (pause) Play. At this point the team without the ball can come round after it if it's not out or tackle the scrum half if he's still touching  the ball.

[westwaleswasp]

What about just restricting the 9 from kicking outside their own 22 after a tackle? If the caterpillar is designed to protect the 9, if the 9 has to pass, no need for the caterpillar. Or is that too simplistic?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

What about just restricting the 9 from kicking outside their own 22 after a tackle? If the caterpillar is designed to protect the 9, if the 9 has to pass, no need for the caterpillar. Or is that too simplistic?

They'd just keep extending the caterpilar until the 9 was in the 22.

[westwaleswasp]

There are times I wonder if the damn thing is going to keep going into the crowd. Maybe we could all join in post covid?

[Skippy]

Not a fan of the caterpillar. It’s just a shield for insecure 9s.

It’s the crooked feed that really winds me up and has done for years. The really hypocritical part is that a a crooked lineout will always result in a scrum to the oppo who the proceed to feed the ball to their second row.

[wasps]

Not a fan of the caterpillar. It’s just a shield for insecure 9s.

It’s the crooked feed that really winds me up and has done for years. The really hypocritical part is that a a crooked lineout will always result in a scrum to the oppo who the proceed to feed the ball to their second row.

I believe the crooked scrum feed is largely overlooked to allow scrums to complete more successfully.


In the old days, both hookers struck for the ball and therefore didn't really get involved in the drive too much.
Over the years this changed so that the defending team's hooker wouldn't strike and instead would just try to drive over the ball.
This results in an 8 man drive against 7 on the defending side an arguably an advantage to the defending team.
Also 3 driving in the front row against 2 was seen as a possible cause of front row instability.


By turning a blind eye to the crooked feed, the advantage swings back to the attacking team and any advantage the opposition get from an 8 man drive is largely negated

[RogerE]

Perhaps they could negate that by making all scrum offences free kicks, rather than a mix of free kicks and penalties

[westwaleswasp]

That would create suely create issues with defending teams deliberately collapsing 5m scrums, making the laws look like an ass. To go from free kick, free, kick, free kick all over the pitch to yellow card or pen try for 5m scrums as we currently do would seem inconsistent to me, but if you don't allow repeated 5m scrums following defensive infringement you then get the issue that the defending team will deliberately collapse any 5m scrum knowing there will be just one, and whilst repeated reset scrums are a pain, there is huge drama in repeated attacking 5m scrums where the attacking team opts for a series of scrums. That is the problem with a scrum, it is both a huge pain that interrupts the cadence of the game and a source of great excitement and drama, especially the 5m scrum after being held up.

[Neils]

Is this not a Caterpillar hate thread? Getting diverted into scrum failures and beyond will take us down dark paths and many hundreds of differing views!

 

[Skippy]

The reality is that 8-man shoves are hard to get right. Back in the day, hookers and scrum halves would tap-communicate so that they would know when the feed was coming. The sequence should be a fast-feed, quick hook, ball out the back of the scrum and back in play,. If you want to defend against that with an 8-man shove, the good luck. The defending boofheads will still be working on their 8-man shove when the attacking 10 is orchestrating moves.

As Japan demonstrated against SA in 2015, it’s devastatingly effective even when you are at a significant weight disadvantage.

[Chunky24]

Is this not a Caterpillar hate thread? Getting diverted into scrum failures and beyond will take us down dark paths and many hundreds of differing views!

 

Maybe if we leave it for a few days it will turn into a beautiful butterfly thread?

[RogerE]

Is this not a Caterpillar hate thread? Getting diverted into scrum failures and beyond will take us down dark paths and many hundreds of differing views!

 

Maybe if we leave it for a few days it will turn into a beautiful butterfly thread?

Well our original owner (and life president?) was the proprietor of Chrysalis records

[Neils]

Is this not a Caterpillar hate thread? Getting diverted into scrum failures and beyond will take us down dark paths and many hundreds of differing views!

 

Maybe if we leave it for a few days it will turn into a beautiful butterfly thread?

Well our original owner (and life president?) was the proprietor of Chrysalis records

Excellent sticking with the caterpillar in some form.