Eng v Ire

[Neils]

He should be. Nigel was lenient in the extreme.

[westwaleswasp]

Not sure what you can take out of the game to be honest. Ire were similar to week one Wales, but for awful scrum read worse lineout. They looked like team out of camp as the legs went in the second. You can only beat what is in front of you but England just won the gain line and thrashed them in the set piece, hugely effectively. That does not answer the question  of what happens when we don't do that. Shame we only have Ita next, we really need a France away type match, especially to test Daly - who still looked defensively shakey despite not having much defending to do, and to sort out the other wing other than May, and to get Manu another game, he looked to be a threat but we want to bed in what is a rare combination.
Plus a tough game might let Eddie work out that Youngs is, errr, crap.

[Brandnewtorugby]

"Shame we only have Ita next, we really need a France away type match, especially to test Daly"

But from a Wasps supporters point of view I am really looking forward to seeing how Minozzi and Daly go.

[InBetweenWasp]

Love him of loathe him, Jones said this week that England were looking to move away from a set piece focus and cut loose... which they did.

I’m not sure that anyone would have expected Ireland, even undercooked, to ship 57 points. Farrell Senior must be seething.  Their gutsy defence has been one of their huge strongpoints as a team and up there with Wales.

I thought by and large we looked good:

- Our strike play from first phase ball was outstanding in its execution. You don’t see many tries from first phase these days and yesterday there were 3+

- Exits from our own third looked a little too hurried/frenetic for me, a little more control would be nice but this may have been something Jones had asked for to test themselves

- Youngs’ box kicking was poor (despite being a perceived strong point) and it seems the general consensus from those around us in the stands (and the commentators) was that he had a poor game and it’s a weak spot for England

- Daly still looks out of sorts. Struggled defensively on both Ireland’s tries - got outmuscled by Stockdale chasing back for the first and brushed off by Aki for the second and too often was stifled in attack - even if it seemed he was generally in the right places for going forward

- I like the Ford/Farrell axis.  With Joseph and Slade to come back and Francis having looked good in the Wales games we’ve got from a perceived lack of depth in the centres to one of relative flexibility and quality

- Curry and Underhill are frightening together

[mike909]

I try not to listen to Jones...England actually played better for 40 mins last season vs Scotland, and that was against a team that was prepared and up for the game. Unlike Ireland who defended like they had only met on the coach.

The difference was when England were pressed. Now - tactically, things may have changed since March but the side was probably stronger (on paper) than yesterday - but folded under pressure and asked to think. Which for me means - I guess we'll have to wait to a competitive game.

With my glass firmly half empty, Joe looked naive in defence again - not too surprising given his experience and for Bath he's mainly on the other wing as Roko gets the 14 shirt. Daly must have Jone's cat as a hostage and whilst Youngs was poor - it was his first game since March...but with only 57 as the alternative, England are in a self imposed minor hole.

It was good to see a proper backrow...but it wasn't like they had opposition!

But, Ireland were terrible. We've seen before when England are allowed to play - its going to be a long afternoon - but Ireland just conceded the game after 20. Worse arrows than Wales and looking like a team that had been running up sand dunes all week.

[Shugs]

On paper it's a great result and it's true you can only play what's in front of you but Ireland were awful (and actually have been for up to 7 or 8 months). That said I thought the back row looked so much better than when we try and play SR in there. Itoje was his usual self and I thought Farrell went well at 12. I still see problems defensively with Daly and Cockanasiga that Ireland just weren't able to frequently probe and we're taking a huge risk at SH. Even if you cut Youngs some slack as he's been out for a while going in with him and Heinz is a huge risk.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

He should be. Nigel was lenient in the extreme.

I think Nigel deliberately didn't give him a red. There was less than 10 minutes to go, so a card of either colour had him off for the rest of the game. By going straight to a yellow, with no TMO input, leaves the citing official with the task of doing the paperwork. Can't see how he shouldn't be cited. It was very reckless, both players were moving in opposite directions and so meets the definition of force.

[westwaleswasp]

The problem was England got so much free ball off the line out and thus unstructured defence to attack. Ire were in it for 25 mins, they looked tired and disorganised when they started to concede. Does anyone think that will be replicated in a quarter final? What happens when England play Wales or Australia- will either team collapse at the set piece? If not then where will Englands' tries come from. Last week against a solid defence- no penetration. We had plenty yesterday but much from the set piece- especially theirs, which was buffet class.

[welsh wasp]

The main feature of the match was how backward Ireland have gone in calendar year 2019, with & without Sexton. Not sure how much England will learn from such an easy win - although we can all agree that Ben Youngs would have fitted in the Irish performance.
So Heinz as number one scrum half in the RWC?

[westwaleswasp]

For me yes, but for me there are several I would rather pick over him.

[RogerE]

Well it shows how much we mere mortals know about good rugby play.

According to Stephen Jones player ratings in yesterdays Times:

Ben Youngs
8/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 88 Age 29 Ht 1.78m Wt 92kg
One of his best, and not even the paucity of the opposition could devalue it

I was obviously watching a completely different game to him.

[Heathen]

He should be. Nigel was lenient in the extreme.

Kearney's non tackle with a high flailing arm was worse IMHO. Not picked up. You could argue both should have been reds.

[Nopace]

He should be. Nigel was lenient in the extreme.

Kearney's non tackle with a high flailing arm was worse IMHO. Not picked up. You could argue both should have been reds.

Yep, it’s a shocker straight arm
in the neck, late. Could have been very nasty. There is also a dubious hit on Jonny May by the same individual. Can’t believe he’s not cited.

[BG]

He should be. Nigel was lenient in the extreme.

Kearney's non tackle with a high flailing arm was worse IMHO. Not picked up. You could argue both should have been reds.

I spotted that as well but thankfully Curry didn't make a meal of it. But it was a no arms tackle and high which is what World Rugby are trying to remove from the game.

It comes back to the old question.. if an injury doesn't occur as a result of an illegal tackle does that make it less illegal.

Players are being reminded of what they can or can't do but if referees then don't apply what the players have been told then players will start rolling around the floor to bring something to the attention of the ref or TMO.

On a side note.. I've been won over by Heinz. As a former scrumhalf I admire his passing technique. He reminds me of Peter Stringer. No faffing around at the base of the ruck, no flapping his arms around complaining to the ref trying to buy a penalty (Youngs take note).

He gets his feet into the perfect position to instantly ping the ball out with no lower body movement rather than what Care and Youngs normally do is pick the ball up.. stand up slightly and take a few steps sideways before passing... which then takes up time.. which then allows the defence to make tackles behind the gain line

[Shugs]

Agree about Heinz BG. Your description could also apply to Robson who I believe has the added advantage of being a better sniper and has more pace. Which begs the obvious question as to why he's not in. I must admit though I'm confused as to what his current fitness status is. Assuming all are fit I have Robson and Spencer as our two best scrum halves followed by Heinz and Care. Youngs is obviously a class player - I just don't think he's our best option.