Saracens docked 35 points

[Hymenoptera]

Some comments:
- EJ had some kind of coaching role at Saracens a few years ago.
- Wray has gone from being very aggressive about the appeal to being very humble about accepting that he did wrong. Sounds like he has had a severe talking to from a lawyer. Is what they pay the new governance director within the cap!? No need for an answer.
- PRL should ask them to provide evidence of what they have done to ensure that they are now compliant with the cap. The leaders at the other clubs should ask for the same. They can’t just accept Wray’s word.

EJ was a decade ago there.
I have seen absolutely no humility from Wray at all, not sure what quotes i have been missing.
I suspect/hope PRL indeed have an eye on what made them over cap to be able to qualify at the end of the season. To be clear, you can only investigate at the end of the season

[Gaz]

I expect them to be within the cap this season to be honest, but the thing that really sticks in my craw is that they continue to compete with an illegitimately assembled squad.

[Hymenoptera]

Given they knew the investigation was coming down the pipe, hence the big wig heev ho, they may have made adjustments. I still struggle to believe that you can  bring that squad under the standard cap. Faz and Todger alone are 1.4m if reports are accurate and I suspect they are..I wont go on and list the other players we all know about..its just not possible.
Not that my moaning will change anything.

[Neils]

One of today's papers had a go at salary guessing :
Farrell - 750k
Itoje - 600k
M Vuna - 500k
B Vuna - 500k
Skelton - 400k
Goode - 300k
Daly - 300k
George - 275k
Kruis - 275k
Maitland - 250k
Williams - 230k

Now I think some of those are low. Itoje was alledged to be at the same level as Farrell. I can't believe Billy is on the same as Nathan at Bristol. Daly was alledgedly on that or more with us so it looks slim for an increased move. Of course they have quite a few more internationals who must be on a fair amount. Think Cooper-Wooley to Sale on 300k and some of these must be playing for the love of Wray.

[BG]

The one that stands out as being way too low is Williams. When he signed he was a Wales international (he had enough caps to bypass the Gatland law) and by the point of signing was he a Lion?

Some of the salaries may appear low because they were signed 2 or 3 years ago (this is one of the points everyone is making.. its one thing developing talent but when their stock value rises due to international calls up... how do they afford the inevitable wage increase demands) but I simply do not believe Daly is on £300k when allegedly JCW was offered the same from Sale.

[mike909]

As Dai said, no one leaves for worse money.....

I find the suggestion that they can be under the cap, and not lose any players somewhat far fetched....

[DGP Wasp]

Half time entertainment at Allianz this season will involve a formation flypast by Pinky and Perky!

[Tervueren]

Well they do need to find new ways to bring home the bacon

[BG]

Dire Straits - Money For Nothing? (a 2 for 1 there)

[Rifleman Harris]

Haha...that was a crackling joke.

Seriously (ish) whether they are under the cap or not is somewhat irrelevant now.  Unless something is seen to change in the squad then nobody will believe that they are compliant whatever they win or otherwise. Everything will be tainted from no on.

[Lwasp]

The Times today reporting that the other clubs want a change to the rules this season requiring players to disclose their earnings to PRL, not just clubs. Requires a unanimous vote to be brought in mid-season for this year or a 75% vote to apply from next season onwards.

Seems like a sensible change, allows the cap manager to cross check club submissions against all the player submissions. Sanctions would then be possible against players for failure to accurately disclose not just clubs.

[BG]

Paul Gustard has weighed in on what EJ has implied.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7703957/Saracens-stars-effectively-retire-international-rugby-snub-Six-Nations.html

As the article points out though, Marler did something similar but for different reasons.

If they did refuse to play that would mean they lose their EPS credits though which makes things worse for Sarries.

I don't think the Sarries players opting out of the 6N's would make much difference because don't Prem Cup matches normally take place then, or has that changed this season?

[Neils]

The Times today reporting that the other clubs want a change to the rules this season requiring players to disclose their earnings to PRL, not just clubs. Requires a unanimous vote to be brought in mid-season for this year or a 75% vote to apply from next season onwards.

Seems like a sensible change, allows the cap manager to cross check club submissions against all the player submissions. Sanctions would then be possible against players for failure to accurately disclose not just clubs.

A move in the right direction

[BG]

Whilst the clubs and PRL might want to vote for this I can't see how they can force this through. Why should a player divulge his earnings, some of which might be via their club and some of it won't be but will be perfectly above board. Who knows.. Danny Care might receive a commission for helping selling kangoroo steak via his local butcher.. that's none of our business.

This is similar to World Rugby bringing in new laws to try and fix a previous law that was poorly written or poorly policed.

This is shifting the blame onto the players.

PRL need to a better job policing the current rules and if that doesn't work then the remaining clubs need to get together to then make a pariah out of the one club not playing to the same rules.

I doubt very much whether this would be legally enforceable either. The only body that could get anywhere near this level of governance is HMRC and even they aren't very good at tracking through a web of income and companies.. they also rely on what is being told is honest and truthful... they rely on the penalty being that bad that nobody would risk doing it... which is what hasn't happened with PRL and Sarries

[NellyWellyWaspy]

The Times today reporting that the other clubs want a change to the rules this season requiring players to disclose their earnings to PRL, not just clubs. Requires a unanimous vote to be brought in mid-season for this year or a 75% vote to apply from next season onwards.

Seems like a sensible change, allows the cap manager to cross check club submissions against all the player submissions. Sanctions would then be possible against players for failure to accurately disclose not just clubs.

What is also needed is a copy of their tax return. But, how do you factor in relatives etc.?