Saracens docked 35 points

[Neils]

The Times today reporting that the other clubs want a change to the rules this season requiring players to disclose their earnings to PRL, not just clubs. Requires a unanimous vote to be brought in mid-season for this year or a 75% vote to apply from next season onwards.

Seems like a sensible change, allows the cap manager to cross check club submissions against all the player submissions. Sanctions would then be possible against players for failure to accurately disclose not just clubs.

What is also needed is a copy of their tax return. But, how do you factor in relatives etc.?

With great difficulty - it is a bloody mess.

[DGP Wasp]

If they did refuse to play that would mean they lose their EPS credits though which makes things worse for Sarries.

I don't think the Sarries players opting out of the 6N's would make much difference because don't Prem Cup matches normally take place then, or has that changed this season?

EPS credits are for those named in the England Elite Player Squad.  EPS is something like 45 players, so plenty of scope to pick creatively from that.  Not sure if there are then additional cap adjustments based on actual match squad involvement. (Happy to be corrected if someone's more au fait with the ins and outs)

In terms of Premiership fixtures, there are 2 rounds on the same weekend as 6N fixtures (one of which is Wasps v Sarries), plus a further 2 rounds played on the 6N "rest" weeks, when I believe under the EPS agreement, England are a liberty to retain players and not release them back to their clubs.  Ordinarily, Sarries would expect to be without (as a minimum) Vunipola x 2, George, Itoje, Kruis, Faz, Daly for all of those.

[BG]

If I remember correctly, being part of EPS starts at £10k.. then the player/club accrues more credits the more that person is used up to a max of £80k.

I think the EPS is reset every 6 months.. summer and just after new year.

So the Sarries players could still be part of the EPS come new year but if the players opt not to be picked that would be like the tail wagging the dog and then we get into a RFU and PRL battle.

Wray hasn't thought about the ongoing consequences of what he's done.. there's a good chance PRL clubs, seeing what Sarries are doing, will simply not sign a new PRL/RFU deal and concentrate on themselves, which means RFU have no control over the players accept outside of the international windows

[Fats]

https://www.planetrugby.com/breaching-salary-cap-easy-to-do-sale-sharks-owner/

[Neils]

https://www.planetrugby.com/breaching-salary-cap-easy-to-do-sale-sharks-owner/

Whilst it may be true seems a silly comment to make at the moment unless it spurs the PRL into more action.

[mike909]

https://www.planetrugby.com/breaching-salary-cap-easy-to-do-sale-sharks-owner/

Whilst it may be true seems a silly comment to make at the moment unless it spurs the PRL into more action.

It might be easy in terms of allowances and the like, but I'm sure it not "easy" to avoid the conclusion that co investments and offshoring are deliberate attempt to get around the cap.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

The cap needs phrases like 'schemes to avoid payments being included in the cap, whether by direct intent or otherwise'. To be judged by effect or outcome, not intent.

[MarleyWasp]

An interesting tweet from Ali Eykyn of BT Sport: https://twitter.com/alastaireykyn/status/1199001897958617088?s=08

[Heathen]

An interesting tweet from Ali Eykyn of BT Sport: https://twitter.com/alastaireykyn/status/1199001897958617088?s=08

Beat me to it. It looks as they really have been rumbled. No Prem club can have that squad and be within the salary cap!!

[Gaz]

Still a lot of indignant Saracens supporters about.

Like I said before, I'm no going to spend another penny on premiership rugby until this is dealt with properly. What's the point? This should hurt PRL and its clubs because they collectively deluded us over many seasons.

[MarleyWasp]

An interesting tweet from Ali Eykyn of BT Sport: https://twitter.com/alastaireykyn/status/1199001897958617088?s=08

Beat me to it. It looks as they really have been rumbled. No Prem club can have that squad and be within the salary cap!!

I suspect this is the real reason they dropped the review. The longer into the salary cap year this drags on, the more talent they need to offload. Month 5 ends on Saturday.

[wasps]

I won't get too excited yet.
I have a feeling the outcome of this will be that they're morally over the cap, but not actually over it.


Imagine a scenario where Wray tells his top30 players that he's gonna pay them all £100k under their going rate.
That gives him £3m extra cap space to play with.
To make up for it, he'll pay them all £75k per year that they're at the club, off the books.

The player wins cos they get more money.
The club wins cos they get a stronger squad
Wray loses a few quid, but becomes the owner of the most dominant club around.



Then it all blows up.
Wray simply stops putting the £75k per year into everyone's secret accounts.
Suddenly, the club is under the cap, and the players are still pretty happy cos they've already earnt more than they could have done elsewhere.... And they've won trophies at the same time.

A few reassurances from Wray that he'll find another loophole and all the players stick with it waiting for the good times to come back again.... While still winning all their games.


It sucks!

[Rifleman Harris]

I honestly can't see how Saracens can ever be credible without significant squad changes and Wray being removed.

It's no longer about whether they are actually above the cap or not, but whether people believe they compliant. That can't happen unless things change.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[westwaleswasp]

I am sure there are embarrassed supporters too. It takes a brave person to stick their heads up when their peers are defending the club. The loudest voices will be the ones who are most unreasonable.

How would we be if it were us? The natural inclination is to defend. Most of us say that we would want us to win fair and square, most of us differentiate between fiscal doping and having playing loose with the uncontested scrums, for example. But when you have had lots of success, and the club has built up and sold itself on a bunker mentality, peddling the "something special" (TM)  bull, well I guess it would be hard to give that up and admit it was something rotten, which it was. I am sure there are genuinely bereft Sarries fans aghast at what the sickly, spiv-like Mr Wray has done, and many who are uncomfortable with it but recognise the vast sums he has stumped up. I have to be honest, I don't know how I would react. I would like to think that I would call out the club for this, but part of  me knows that it is easy to buy into the bunker mentality-"no one likes us, we don't care".

[wasps]

I am sure there are embarrassed supporters too. It takes a brave person to stick their heads up when their peers are defending the club. The loudest voices will be the ones who are most unreasonable.

How would we be if it were us? The natural inclination is to defend. Most of us say that we would want us to win fair and square, most of us differentiate between fiscal doping and having playing loose with the uncontested scrums, for example. But when you have had lots of success, and the club has built up and sold itself on a bunker mentality, peddling the "something special" (TM)  bull, well I guess it would be hard to give that up and admit it was something rotten, which it was. I am sure there are genuinely bereft Sarries fans aghast at what the sickly, spiv-like Mr Wray has done, and many who are uncomfortable with it but recognise the vast sums he has stumped up. I have to be honest, I don't know how I would react. I would like to think that I would call out the club for this, but part of  me knows that it is easy to buy into the bunker mentality-"no one likes us, we don't care".

Very sensible post