Sale Game Thread

[mike909]

Shields is a good player, but is he really worth the amount we pay him compared to Willis? Sopoaga definitely isn't worth the money we pay him. Same with Fekitoa. Dai needs to try and balance the salaries better in the squad to able to afford better players e.g. lock and a future 12.

I don't think the squad is that bad, but I do think experienced lock, creative twelve and a cheaper fly half should be top of the list.

My other key concern is that we're managing to turn some good players - like Brad - into looking like very average players. It might have been the consequence of playing for 'Canes, but as their leader, he was an outstanding player.

Having been rather unwell for a bit - I did get to watch a load of SH rugby - and was really delighted with the signing - he didn't look out of place going straight into the England squad and was an injury away from going to Japan.

But whatever we're doing, we're managing to make such an asset look average

For me, that is starting to look like a problem with the "management" rather than the players. I've been impressed with the change brought to other Prem clubs over the last seasons or so such that there are few if any easy games - I hoped the LI game was an aberration having watched other round one games.....but it seemed not.

[Westy68]

Defence is being mentioned a lot here but although we shipped a lot of penalties last night we conceded one try away from home which came from an interception. That certainly doesn't mean the defence is perfect at all and there is a lot of scramble defence but I just felt like trying to find something positive to say!

Because we gave such a ridiculous amount of penalties away it actually stopped Sale from scoring more trys. Unfortunately I still saw a lot of holes in our defence. We should of had a couple of yellow cards, especially cruise who went straight into the side of the maul

[Mellie]

The problem appears to be a mix of coaching, game plan and players not adapting to what is happening on the pitch.

Confidence comes from practicing until able to execute accurately under pressure. If players are not capable of that get better players. If what they practice is not working in a match situation get better coaches.

Biggest issue for me is we have no dominance in the collisions either with or without the ball. That kills go forward momentum and gives backs no option other than to go sideways as a result. It also leads to penalties when players deperately try to compete against the odds. Coaches must address this immediately.

Coaches and players must become adaptable at reading the game with leaders able to change things up on the pitch.

Thought Sops was having an ok game when he was subbed. Billy came on and was obviously told to kick more; which he did continually and badly. Nobody changed it when it didnt work. We could have nicked some points at the end but we're not capable.

[Rossm]

Thought Sops was having an ok game when he was subbed. Billy came on and was obviously told to kick more; which he did continually and badly. Nobody changed it when it didnt work. We could have nicked some points at the end but we're not capable.

I was surprised that Lima was subbed with just over 20 minutes to go. Though behind, we had scored 2 tries and I thought that Billy came on to up the attacking pace. Wrong again, Ross

[mike909]

Ross - I had the same thought and was wrong too....Billy looked hopeless and we looked rudderless

[westwaleswasp]

My thoughts exactly, Ross.
I expected Billy to try to get us moving forward with the ball, rather than the ball moving and us chasing, badly. It is not his game, surely.
What does Dai want us to play like?

I think the realisation is starting to dawn that we are in trouble, pretty much across the fan base. You can almost tell from the number of down votes or whatever they are called here- they seem to have increased for everyone in the last couple of weeks.
I am not a big fan of them- I think people should thank by saying " thank you" and agree by saying so, and I can't see the people posting on some of my devices when I have it in desktop mode, but they act as a sort of guide as to how upset people are feeling. Judging by the numbers next to the names people are feeling sore.
Ironically, the DW site, bar a couple of individuals, seem far more united - the doomsayers seem to have been vindicated to a greater or lesser extent.

[westwaleswasp]

Well that was truly awful, some players I’m afraid are not good enough to play for us.

The New Zealand prop who I can’t be bothered to name is awful what the hell did Dai see in him. Terrible scrummaging, how is he 2nd choice, some very dumb discipline play.

We are in serious trouble even with Saracens losing 35 points.

I’m sorry guys but I’m really angry with our play and how we are coached.

It was Ben Harris that struggled at scrum-time not JT-A.

I am no expert, but the player ratings in the Cov Tel have JTA as a 4. I don't have the eye for a scrum, having never been in one, so can't comment myself as to what the problm was beyond the fact that we went from obvious dominance to area of weakness.

[Neils]

I think Bobby Bridge sums it up well with his comments and markings. Cant be too much fun for him on a cold Friday night.

[Rossm]

Bobby's comments and ratings:

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-player-ratings-sale-sharks-17216479

[Shugs]

What's a bit worrying is that we seemed to enter the season low on confidence. It's no good picking Sopoaga out again - he had very little go forward ball to conjure with. Also, I think I must be watching a different Shields to most. For me he's been outstanding. It's a lot of messy, gritty stuff but it's necessary. At the moment we have a real brittleness about us and what we really need to work on is being more clinical.

[BG]

Well that was truly awful, some players I’m afraid are not good enough to play for us.

The New Zealand prop who I can’t be bothered to name is awful what the hell did Dai see in him. Terrible scrummaging, how is he 2nd choice, some very dumb discipline play.

We are in serious trouble even with Saracens losing 35 points.

I’m sorry guys but I’m really angry with our play and how we are coached.

It was Ben Harris that struggled at scrum-time not JT-A.

I am no expert, but the player ratings in the Cov Tel have JTA as a 4. I don't have the eye for a scrum, having never been in one, so can't comment myself as to what the problm was beyond the fact that we went from obvious dominance to area of weakness.

I was a scrumhalf and also a flanker so I've seen props at work.

I've seen huge monster tall props humiliated by shorter lighter props.

Ideally a tighthead needs to keep his side down low (right shoulder down at contact which negates what the opposite loosehead wants to do) and arrow in between his opposite loosehead and hooker as that makes it a lot more difficult for the hooker and it also tends to steer their scrum back to where your scrumhalf is.

The opposition loosehead will want to get our tighthead's right shoulder up and so that he can drive into his chest twisting him (this is why looseheads get pinged for stepping to the left so much.. which is what Mako does, and this is why Dan Cole ended up either in the air, against Beast, or choosing to collapse it and hope the ref resets it) and then the flanker behind the tighthead and the 2nd row on that side have nothing to push against.

My theory is JTA is too tall for tighthead. To get his shoulders at the same height as the opposition loosehead he either has to start slightly hinged at the hips or put his feet further back.. at that point he's relying on his opposite loosehead to keep the pressure on.. all the loosehead does then is release the pressure slightly.. JTA over balances, turns his right shoulder  in and goes to ground.. penalty.

[Fats]

Who was(were) the worst offender(s) in conceding penalties?

[SilverShire]

I think it was a large proportion were conceded by our back row. Number 8 (can spell his name...) conceded 3 and I think Nemo conceded 2/3 in the first half   

[JF]

A few seasons back when we had Cips, Beale, WLR and others in full flight we were winning by scoring more than the opposition. "You score one try? We'll get three."

Most of us knew back then that defence wasn't our strongest suit.

Look at who's gone and who's arrived in their place and you can't honestly say that we've traded up. It now seems that we've changed to "You score one try? We won't and we'll probably give away a penalty at the restart."

This hasn't happened accidentally. Someone was responsible for recruitment. Someone is responsible for coaching. Dai may as well have taped his post-game interview responses and keep them handy for the future. It's not going to improve accidentally.

[BG]

Which makes you wonder how recruitment works.. are agents continually bombarding NH DoR's alerting them of the fact  their player's contract is up soon.. sends them a highlights reel.. and the DoR bites?

Or do DoR's actively search players out. I'm beginning to think its the former.

We'd all like our team (I'm guessing this applies to all clubs) to find young talent, nurture and develop them but once they become stars they will move to the highest bigger (apart from one club).

That's a risk a club takes.

One of the sub clauses to the salary cap was a marquee player.. then it was increased to 2.

The thinking was to allow a high level international player to bring their experience (and glitz and glamour)  to a club but being restricted to one or 2, it wouldn't dilute the english playing pool... all for the intended good of the league and national team.

I couldn't help noticing how many Saffa's were playing for Sale last night. I believe (I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong) there were 3 brothers and the 9.. only the 10 was contracted to Sale.. the others on loan.. on loan for what reason?

To cover for the other Saffa's who aren't there?

As a wake up call for us.. Sale didn't have Faf.. Mark Wilson (another loan I think), Tom Curry, and de Jager soon to arrive...

Diamond has been very vociferous about Sarries. Again.. in my mind.. the figures don't add up..

You have Ashton.. Solomona.. I think even McGuigan was an international