Always a Wasp

Author Topic: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled  (Read 64788 times)

AKWasp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2020, 11:16:08 AM »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7861985/Williams-leave-early-Saracens-exodus-salary-cap-England-stars-remain.html

Full back Liam Williams will make an earlier than expected move to Scarlets, he has not played this season so his wage will not count within the salary cap

Argentina prop Juan Figallo is another rumoured to be leaving soon. Clark has played four times for Saracens this season, but Rhodes and Figallo are yet to make an appearance.

If Clark, Figallo and Rhodes make swift exits, it is estimated that Saracens could cut around £800,000 from their wage bill.


Just read this, if Williams (one of the best FB in the northern hemisphere) is quoted to be £230k a year, how on earth do the aging, squad playing trio of Clark, Figallo and Rhodes add up to £800k. That would mean on average they’d each be getting £266k.

Think it might take the also mentioned trio of Barritt, Wigglesworth and Goode to bring them closer to that 800k margin

Raggs

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2020, 11:18:45 AM »
Max Malins out till April and out of contract at the end of the season and was already rumoured to be attracting interest from elsewhere, so if they decide not to play him for the handful of games after he returns from injury, then is his salary not included from the point at which he was injured?  Dose a doctor need to declare him fit / unfit for the purposes of cap calculation, or is it simply down to whether or not he plays?

Only if his absence is due to injury does it count. If however they can unload him before he's fit again, then they'd drop his salary.

However, he's academy, and only just broken through. He's probably not worth much in terms of his salary, and they can already claim £50k credit off his wages, so I'd imagine there's far better options to try and cut before such a promising youngster.

BG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2020, 01:10:28 PM »
There is no way Williams was on £230k.. if he was, he needs to sack his agent.


Williams was a 50 cap plus Wales international at the time of signing,.. was he also a British Lion? He would easily command £400k on the open market when he signed for Sarries.. but would he have been signed as a marquee player?

Maybe Sarries have special permission to have 8 marquee players

Tervueren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2020, 01:39:51 PM »
You are forgetting that players move to Sarries for a lot less money

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2020, 01:41:29 PM »
There is no way Williams was on £230k.. if he was, he needs to sack his agent.


Williams was a 50 cap plus Wales international at the time of signing,.. was he also a British Lion? He would easily command £400k on the open market when he signed for Sarries.. but would he have been signed as a marquee player?

Maybe Sarries have special permission to have 8 marquee players

I'd agree with all that - one of best players around - at his physical peak at 28 and surely worth every penny of top dollar (so to speak!)

Hymenoptera

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1425
  • Trevor Leotas Twin
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2020, 02:21:00 PM »
If he's getting 400k to go back to Wales then it'll be a similar wage at Sarries, anything less then he'd have been the steal of the century.
Regarding the 3 mentioned, if Clark has played then his wages count for this year. Its ok saying they could be cut but they will need their contract paying off to be cut, so how does that help the salary situation.
I think 600k overspend is a massive assumption, that coupled with other interests maybe but there is no way you could assemble that squad on 7.6m either.

baldpaul101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2020, 04:55:23 PM »
Maybe Williams was on £230k, with the balance made up in "investments"

Now with that kind of arrangement being a bit more difficult to pull off he's leaving because he isn't getting as much as he was promised?

MarleyWasp

  • Guest
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2020, 05:13:12 PM »
The Liam Williams would join Saracens for £170k less than his worth at the pinnacle of his career argument might work if the Scarlets played in London and Saracens played in Llanelli. But as they don't, the cost of living ridicules that argument.

The Regulations are jumbled on players leaving due to injury when they haven't been out for a year but the simplicity of it has been misguided.

Under Schedule 1, section 2, paragraph L it says that the following is not considered towards the cap:

Quote
(l) any Salary (other than payments or benefits caught by paragraph 1(q) of Schedule (1) paid during a Salary Cap Year to a Player who, due to injury, has not played or been a replacement for the Club during that Salary Cap Year in the Gallagher Premiership, European Challenge Cup, European Champions Cup, Premiership Rugby Cup or in more than 3 matches in any other Competition, on condition that:

(i) the application made by the Club must include an Injury Certificate certifying that the Player’s limited participation has been caused by injury together with all other requested documentation as deemed relevant by the Salary Cap Manager in order to consider the application fully and fairly; and

(ii) the Club has not brought in a replacement player under the injury dispensation provisions set out in Regulation 5.

For the purposes of this Regulation, a sevens tournament shall count as one
Competition match; 

Paragraph 1(q) says:

Quote
(q) any payment or benefit in kind paid in respect of a Player in connection with his redundancy or the termination of his playing contract with the Club including all redundancy or termination payments or benefits in kind (whether paid or payable provided or to be provided voluntarily, contractually, pursuant to statute or otherwise). Any such payment or benefit in kind shall count as Salary in the Salary Cap Year in which the player contract terminates, irrespective of whether it is paid, payable, provided, or to be provided before, during or after the Salary Cap Year concerned;

Therefore whilst what has been paid up to now wouldn't count, their redundancy payments do count.

An injured player is defined as:

Quote
  Player" means any Senior Player of a Club who sustains an injury which has prevented or is anticipated to prevent him playing rugby

(a) for a minimum continuous period of twelve weeks within a Season; or

(b) where the same injury spans two Salary Cap Years the injury is for a minimum of eight weeks within the Season of the Salary Cap Year in relation to which the injury dispensation is being sought, subject in each case to the requirement that once an injured player is selected in a match squad in any Competition fixture he will cease being an injured player;

Rhodes last played at the Premiership Final, but I can't find anything that says when he picked up his injury.

Figallo has been out with concussion since the Argentina v England match on 5th October, so he too has been out for 12+ weeks.

William's injury was announced on 25th October 2019, so he only reaches the 12 weeks on Friday 16th January.

There's a standard release clause that says a club can release a player without payment after 24 weeks.  Provided Rhodes was injured earlier than 24th July, he would qualify.

backdoc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2020, 05:53:45 PM »
Releasing players - a perfect example of how Saracens look after players welfare.


Raggs

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2020, 05:59:21 PM »
Releasing players - a perfect example of how Saracens look after players welfare.

Doesn't seem like a particularly fair comment. What are they supposed to do? Keep overpaying them and take another fine/points deduction?

Salary has to get cut somehow, and if there's players who're happy to move on (like Kruis), then it's absolutely the right thing to do.

Someone who's only played in 3 or less games, wouldn't count towards to the cap anyway, as long as it's due to injury. However, once Rhodes is no longer injured, his salary can start counting again, so better to move him on before he's fit.

RBB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • It’s like trying to tackle a snooker table!
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2020, 06:07:22 PM »
Kruis off to Japan (rumoured), so that will be the lure of a massive salary and a far less rigorous competition.

The EAs are implying (McCall and the CEO) that older players will be the focus, so I am guessing all of the 30 somethings are in scope of the initial review and inputted into the spreadsheet (the CEO has mentioned), I am sure someone in the estate agency has developed a formula that applies the fudge factor.
It was fine when I left it.....

bournender2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2020, 06:36:06 PM »
Malins- I’d have him as my first round pick for a three quarter.

Hymenoptera

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1425
  • Trevor Leotas Twin
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2020, 06:39:54 PM »
Releasing players - a perfect example of how Saracens look after players welfare.


 However, once Rhodes is no longer injured, his salary can start counting again, so better to move him on before he's fit.
Not sure how that works, who wants to sign an injured player, in a position that most teams have decent offerings and for Rhodes, he'll be getting shitty offers at best.

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2020, 06:42:52 PM »
Kruis leaving is irrelevant.
He's off at the end of the season, so he'll be fully included in this year's cap.

backdoc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2020, 07:58:14 PM »
Kruis is the first to understand - it is over.