Always a Wasp

Author Topic: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled  (Read 64855 times)

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2020, 12:19:46 PM »

It's not going to be possible to watch any Saracens game without thinking that they're still cheating.
It's going to take so many years for that to change.


However, seeing that Kruis is off at the end of the season and that Saints are in talks with Kpoku is a sign that they're being forced to change a bit.
Previously, they'd have found a way to keep both of them and re-sign all their other players.



Welcome to the real world Saracens

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #151 on: January 12, 2020, 01:27:26 PM »
Jeez - I am assuming the EA's press team are busy - but from the Guardian

Quote
Alex Lozowski believes that, if Saracens retain the European Champions Cup, it would rank as the club’s greatest achievement after the trauma of being docked 35 Premiership points

Trauma?

Like the "trauma" of being jailed after found guilty of theft?

Shugs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #152 on: January 12, 2020, 01:35:47 PM »
It's exactly that sort of narrative that really gets under my skin. It's not trauma, it's being caught cheating. Maybe the other clubs should start making more noise about the "trauma" they've endured through lack of titles/European progression/top 4 finishes/ relegation etc etc. All denied them in some part by cheating.

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #153 on: January 12, 2020, 02:24:41 PM »
It's exactly that sort of narrative that really gets under my skin. It's not trauma, it's being caught cheating. Maybe the other clubs should start making more noise about the "trauma" they've endured through lack of titles/European progression/top 4 finishes/ relegation etc etc. All denied them in some part by cheating.

100%. The rest of the article has quotes from Sarries as if its a chore to be coming in under the cap....

Vespula Vulgaris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2020, 02:29:34 PM »
It makes me sick.

Also it makes me very much not want to see Loz in  a Wasps shirt again.
Please consider supporting the forum in 2022! Donate Here

Westy68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1001
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2020, 03:17:55 PM »
I bloody hate, we have been harshly punished bollocks.

Please god I hope racing beat them next week

WickedWasp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2020, 03:19:06 PM »
It's exactly that sort of narrative that really gets under my skin. It's not trauma, it's being caught cheating. Maybe the other clubs should start making more noise about the "trauma" they've endured through lack of titles/European progression/top 4 finishes/ relegation etc etc. All denied them in some part by cheating.

I agree completely. Rob Baxter made reference to the fact that those who have spoken out as victims of the whole thing have been shot down and made out to be trouble makers. I would have wanted to hear more from Wasps and others. I think Salaries were clever in the way they pretend to intend to contest the judgement. That ment the way everyone spoke about the whole saga was still as if it was speculation etc. Slowly the truth is coming to light but by then the eyes of the world are elsewhere already. I still am looking forward to seeing the changes to their squad but I fancy it's all smoke and mirrors. They have proven they dont care about the rules of the league on multiple occasions. I now think they will just go even further in their bitterness to find ways around what is still a losely enforced key element of our league.

They can keep Loz he was quick to jump on the gravy train along with Daly. This year we seem to have a great team spirit which I think is outstanding given all the changes in the team and within the organisation. With some youth coming through and roots firmly laid down at the Ricoh we need build a team who play for the badge now.

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2020, 03:19:18 PM »
Indeed - that was my first thought - though he might just be next on the media rota for EA quotes - I doubt he ever said anything like that!

But its sickening and I can understand Exeter's supporter I know being really p'eed off with that sort of attitude.

Willie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2020, 10:30:15 AM »
I’ve been trying to ignore the situation. Everyone knew they were cheating in the past, now it’s been confirmed, nothing has really changed.

But the way the press and pundits are talking is really pissing me off. It’s like someone is caught at a poker tournament with extra cards up their sleeve; they get a load of their chips taken away and moved down the ranking, but are allowed to continue playing with a rigged deck. Then when they continue winning the pundits are like “Wow! You’ve got to admire their ability to continue winning in the face of adversity.”

Of course they are still winning. They are still cheating!

I’ve heard a couple of pundits making a big deal out of the fact that the team against Ospreys only contained one international and they still won. The point remains that their availible squad depth is based on cheating; and those non-internationals players get to train with a load of internationals, because of cheating; and the ability to rest a whole bunch of internationals, ready to be wheeled out at the next game, is only possible because of cheating.

All the BS about how much Wray has done for the sport will amount to nothing in 10 years time. What ever good he has done could just as well have been achieved without cheating. They knew darn well what they were doing, they just didn't think it mattered as much as personal success.

I hate it that this has been dumped on our sport.

Tervueren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2020, 10:54:17 AM »
Apologies if this is a repeat


From the Times

Saracens salary-cap judgment ‘should be published in full’

The chairman of the panel that found Saracens guilty of breaching the salary cap wants his full written judgment to be published by Premiership Rugby because he believes it is in the public interest.

Lord Dyson, a former Master of Rolls and one of the leading legal minds in the country, said the lack of transparency was “unhealthy” and that rugby supporters deserved to know the truth.

Saracens were found guilty of breaching the salary cap in three consecutive seasons, fined £5.36 million and deducted 35 league points. The full 103-page written judgment is under lock and key in the Twickenham offices of Premiership Rugby Limited (PRL) and will not be published due to the league’s own regulations.

PRL released a brief summary of the sanction but did not include any explanation as to how Lord Dyson, Aidan Robertson, QC, and Jeremy Summers reached their decision.

“I am a believer in open justice,” Lord Dyson told the Law In Sport podcast. “It is really frustrating that I can’t talk more about this. I don’t actually really understand why the public is kept out of all this because there is a real public interest in this.

“What I don’t understand is why they wouldn’t publish the decision. The regulations say you can’t. If the PRL and Saracens had agreed to the publication of the decision then presumably it could have been published. I don’t think either was willing to agree to it.

“In a way, at least as bad as that is the fact the regulations say the PRL can publish a summary of the decision — they have done that but the summary is so brief. What it doesn’t say is why we imposed the penalty we imposed.

“There were two particular factors which, in our view, made it a particularly serious case. I drafted a summary for their consideration, which included those two factors but they didn’t include them, so the public has no idea why we imposed the penalty we imposed. I can’t see a justification for the cloak of privacy that is imposed in these cases.

“There is a real public interest in this. This is a very famous club. These very successful businessmen who have backed the club have done these things and I can’t see why the public should not be entitled to know why we reached the decision we reached.

“I am sure in the case of PRL they probably disagree strongly with what I have just said. I would love to know why. There was an enormous amount of interest in the Saracens case. It is still being mentioned even now, weeks after the event, and people have a right to know.”

PRL’s explanation would be that the regulations only permitted them to issue a brief summary of the sanction and nothing more detailed, which was why Lord Dyson’s key explanations were not included in the press release.

Senior executives from each of the 13 PRL member clubs are permitted to read the full judgment but not keep a copy or make notes, in an apparent attempt to ensure the contents remain confidential.

“If decisions such as our Saracens decisions were made public, then all the other rugby clubs would know what we had decided in this case then it would help them know what can be done and can’t be done,” Lord Dyson said.

“The salary cap manager [at PRL] will of course be aware of our decision but I don’t think that is good enough. The clubs should also be aware so that everybody would then be able to know.

“People don’t know about the decision. They don’t know why the authorities are unwilling to disclose the decisions. It is all very unhealthy. I can’t believe this will subsist for very much longer.”

The lack of transparency in this case — and the previous occasion that Saracens breached the salary cap, in 2015, when the other clubs agreed a private financial settlement — will form a key tenet of the review being undertaken by Lord Myners.

There appears to be an acknowledgement at PRL that the regulations need to change. The secrecy has been damaging for the reputation of the league and dragged out the whole situation.

Lord Myners, a former government minister, has been tasked with undertaking a full investigation of the salary cap structure, which could lead to tougher penalties and hand PRL greater monitoring and investigatory powers.

The review will also include recommendations of best practice from around the world, which means Lord Myners will have to consider whether publishing player salaries would improve transparency and trust in the system.

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14742
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2020, 11:28:44 AM »
Thanks for posting - ouch!

Time is quickly coming where they are going to have to release it. Hope the other clubs are or will make it plain to PRL and the cheats.
Let me tell you something cucumber

Vespula Vulgaris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2020, 11:54:31 AM »
We need a whistle blower to release the lot.
Please consider supporting the forum in 2022! Donate Here

Vespula Vulgaris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #162 on: January 13, 2020, 11:57:17 AM »
For what it is worth, if anyone reads this and has access to the facts and doesn't want their name attached to releasing them I would be very happy to publish them here on behalf of an anonymous source.
Please consider supporting the forum in 2022! Donate Here

Tervueren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #163 on: January 13, 2020, 12:08:50 PM »
You can expect contact from a chap named "Nigel" from London who will doubtless want the report leaked so it can be seen that it was all a minor paperwork issue.

Vespula Vulgaris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #164 on: January 13, 2020, 12:35:11 PM »
You can expect contact from a chap named "Nigel" from London who will doubtless want the report leaked so it can be seen that it was all a minor paperwork issue.

That'd be nice, I could do with a house.
Please consider supporting the forum in 2022! Donate Here