EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled

[wasps]

Thanks for loading that article Neils.
An interesting sentence:
"The suggestion by Saracens last week was that they will not be compliant with the Regulations by 30 June, as things stand."
Backdoc: there's a difference between wrongful and unfair dismissal and they can be two separate issues.
Interesting what might arise if they do want to lose some players who have been injured - Williams, Figaro and Rhodes. The requirement to act fairly and reasonably are even more onerous in these cases and can lead to individuals claiming unfair dismissal on grounds of discrimination because of disability - with no limit on compensation. Employers have to bend over backwards, and quite rightly, to show that they have carried out a full investigation of the injuries/illnesses before coming to a decision that they have to terminate the individual's contract. We know how long it took to come to that conclusion with Sam Jones & Alex Reider.
As I suggested in another contribution, Saracens are indeed in big trouble.
Let me guess that this will all end in some kind of shabby compromise, as often happens in employee relations issues. The one that's available is stopping promotion & relegation. Saracens confess to further "mistakes", maybe get fined again, London Irish re-join the PRL on promotion and we all live happily ever afterwards.

Isn't it only relevant if the players (employees) aren't happy to leave?
If the 3 players mentioned are all released, even if there wasn't due process, and they don't complain, then there's no case to answer.

Alternatively if they're essentially taking voluntary redundancy, then a small redundancy package (in the cap) would be a lot cheaper than having to cover their salaries in the salary cap.

[BG]

An interesting point to note in the Regulations relates to a player’s “Benefit Year” – i.e. a testimonial year. Payments from unconnected third parties – and, in limited circumstances, third parties connected to the club – are excluded from the salary cap calculation (Schedule 1 paragraph 2(g)). This could be a useful negotiating tool for the club to reduce the salary of a senior player, as the club could offer him a testimonial year next season to ‘make up the difference’.

So, Messrs Wigglesworth, Kruis and Barrett... please can you leave quietly with no fuss and no claims against us.
In turn, you'll get a testimonial year and trust me, it'll be worth it.


Job done.

That's interesting.. the Youngs brothers at tiggers have been offered a testimonial year.. is this a way to end a contract early without affecting the salary cap?

[DGP Wasp]

Are there no written criteria in terms of years of service that need to be met to have a "Benefit Year"?  If not, then hypothetically, any club could sign Beauden Barrett on a distinctly average salary for 2 years, the second of which is then promised as a benefit year allowing them to receive generous sponsors' donations under the guise of a testimonial.

[wasps]

Are there no written criteria in terms of years of service that need to be met to have a "Benefit Year"?  If not, then hypothetically, any club could sign Beauden Barrett on a distinctly average salary for 2 years, the second of which is then promised as a benefit year allowing them to receive generous sponsors' donations under the guise of a testimonial.

i think it's usually 10 years service.
i think all 3 listed above have done their 10 years at Saracens

[DGP Wasp]

I know it typically would be 10 years service, but my point was whether there is anything in the salary cap rule book that says a player can't be offered a testimonial after a shorter period.  The example I gave was a touch extreme, but shows how this could serve as another potential loophole.

[westwaleswasp]

I will take a compromise, because it is better than the alternative. That squad needs breaking, they need to not be playing top tier Europe next year and need to not make play offs this. As it stands they are getting away with it to a large extent. If a shabby compromise where nobody is relegated happens, but the cheats no longer have their squad or any prizes this year, I will accept that. I want more, but right now shabby compromise might be better than the current fiasco.

[welsh wasp]

You are right Wasps. There may be a similar situation if Liam Williams, who has been injured, agreed to leave Saracens mid-season to join Scarlets with no notice entitlement or pay-off.
But I suspect Saracens players may be having a chat with an employment lawyer to check their legal position.

[OxtedWasps]

It seems to me that there are several ex-players who retired between 5 and 10 years ago, expressing what a decent bloke Wray was/is.

Current players, Robshaw/Care etc, guy's who have played their guts out during the "cheating" years have a different outlook.

I hope there is a lot going on behind closed doors that we don't know about and the clubs will announce thet they require the 70 point penalty to be administered and the EA's will be relegated. Surely this is the minimum  penatly they should endure?

As far as breaking up the squad, well if those players having the "Wolfpack" mentality then surely they will be more than happy to accept lower wages and stay with the club?

For me, stripping the titles for the last 3 seasons and relegation are the minimum.
As others have said, cycling had it's own cheater and the governing body dealt with it in a proffesional manner.

Why not the RFU??? have they something to hid too?


 

[wasps]

I may be alone in this, but I'm really not that bothered about them being stripped of their titles..... or at least, it's certainly not the primary thing that bothers me.

if it had been Exeter that were cheating, I wouldn't feel any better about them being disqualified from our Prem Final and us being classed as winners.
both the fans and the players will have missed out on the euphoria and celebrations associated with winning and the club would have missed out on any additional sponsorship involved.

Ultimately, the history books would show that we won.... but I don't care.. I was there, we didn't win.



I suspect that Exeter fans and players feel the same way about Saracens.
having Saracens stripped of their titles really doesn't make much difference.

[OxtedWasps]

I understand where your coming from wasps, I just want a black mark against their name.

Petty perhaps but then when anyone looked at those records and seeing " disqualifed" or whatever against those titles it would remind them of the cheater the EA's are.

But you are right, I get what you mean.

[Rifleman Harris]

If I recall, in cycling there was no winner of the TdF in the Armstrong years.  I would be happy with 'No winner' being recorded for those years, I don't think the second place team should be promoted as the final would have been different had the cheats not been there.  Leaving it blank / 'No Winner' would also serve as a reminder of the consequences of cheating.

[OxtedWasps]

Thank you Rifleman, exactly what I was getting at!

[matelot22]

Agree with both of the above, history should show them for the cheats they are. It's all being glossed over way too lightly in my opinion. The sport I love has been ruined to the point I can no longer watch any neutral games, as they're meaningless as long as the EA's retain an illegally assembled squad. I only watch Wasps games now, through love of my team rather than the game as a whole. There is no punishment too great for what they've done systematically over at least 3, but more likely more seasons.

[Rifleman Harris]

Agree with both of the above, history should show them for the cheats they are. It's all being glossed over way too lightly in my opinion. The sport I love has been ruined to the point I can no longer watch any neutral games, as they're meaningless as long as the EA's retain an illegally assembled squad. I only watch Wasps games now, through love of my team rather than the game as a whole. There is no punishment too great for what they've done systematically over at least 3, but more likely more seasons.

I recently got rid of BT Sports for this very reason.  I just never watched any matches other than Wasps...and then only when I was in.  I told Virgin Media exactly why I was getting rid.

[Neils]

If I recall, in cycling there was no winner of the TdF in the Armstrong years.  I would be happy with 'No winner' being recorded for those years, I don't think the second place team should be promoted as the final would have been different had the cheats not been there.  Leaving it blank / 'No Winner' would also serve as a reminder of the consequences of cheating.

+1