Ridiculously long analysis of the Saints game.

[Raggs]

Posting here as well:

Firstly VV, if we need an article, and you can just convert this, go ahead, but I wanted to post it before the teams were up for the next game!

Prologue.

I said I'd go through this game again in the pre-match thread. I've actually seen it 3 times now. Live, concentrating on rucks, and concentrating on general play. There's a bit of mixing, so if some text refers to later events, the original came from the ruck marks, the latter from the general play watch through with those notes added later. Ruck marks are a way of scoring breakdown work, that was first suggested by the demented mole blog, on the lions tour. In short it's a way of measuring how effective a player is in a breakdown. I've only concentrated on the forwards, since it takes less time, and it's generally more important. Brief breakdown of scoring: Present 1, Guard 2, Hit 3, Decisive 4, Turnover 5. You can read more about it on the demented moles blog.

Saints supporters (SaintEd winking smiley ) yes, this is focusing on Wasps, because it's written by a Wasps supporter, wanting to focus on Wasps players, and hence may ignore things you think Saints did well, and probably one eyed in places. Please feel free to do the same for Saints, I'd be very interested in reading it (Picamoles especially in terms of ruck marks).

Kickoff. A bit too long, who knows what's going on with the wind, Mallinder clears the ball with a huge kick in the other direction.

1.02 Defensive ruck, 2 points to Young.

1.47 Attacking ruck. Taylor 2, Mullan 2, Launch 2, Swainston 2, Myall 1.

2.37 Poor kick from Simpson, not enough length and out on the full. Wind?

3.10 CMK gives advantage for early engagement, close call, especially since the Northampton blocker were clearly blocking access to the ball carrier when he landed. Launch disrupts the maul nicely, back to the penalty. Good maul defence overall.

5.44 Defensive ruck, Swainston 3.

5.47 Defensive ruck, Taylor 2, Thompson 3.

Seem to be running at half pace in defence, not gunning it, just trying to get to the advantage line. Issue is, our tackling is then normally passive, giving up ground.

6.52 Defensive ruck Thompson 2.

7.05 Kicked out on the full by WLR. Poor kick for me.

10.30 Amazed so much time has gone by and we've barely touched the ball. A poor lineout to attack from, and then defensive clearing plays. Highlighted this time because AJ was lucky not to give away a stupid penalty 15m into our half. Clearly changes his line to take out Mallinder chasing his own kick.

11.25 Attacking ruck. Johnson 3, Thompson 2.

11.33 Attacking ruck. Launch 2, Young 3.

11.38. That was an awful intercept from Gopperth. Foden was stood in that spot for a good second, and hadn't sprinted up or anything. It didn't even cause him to stretch up, it was head height. Then very lucky North chose to keep the restart in.

11.39 2 phases or so into our first genuine attacking chance, and possession for more than a phase that I can remember, and Gopps passes an awful intercept to Foden. Foden was stood in that spot for a good second, and hadn't sprinted up or anything. It didn't even cause him to stretch up, it was head height. Up until now we've just been under pressure, but only conceded 2 penalties and 3 points. This was our 2nd attacking chance (first Daly was stripped from poor lineout ball), and we gave 5 points up. Gops is then very lucky North chose to keep the restart in.

14.28 Attacking ruck. Mullan 3. Johnson 1.

14.34 Attacking ruck. Taylor 4, Swainston 2

14.40 Attacking ruck. Launch 3. Myall 3.

14.41m Assume Gopps calls for it from Taylor, but then pauses, and just takes into contact. The defensive line had pushed up, but there were 3 men deep that could have made some real damage, especially with the 2 front line players being there to support. Loses us a decent amount of territory. This may be a ruck out of place in the timeline.

14.48 Attacking ruck. Taylor 3. Thompson 3.

15.49. How did CMK not look at that again? Really looks like AJ punches Picamoles in the face.

16.06. Attacking ruck. Young 2. Taylor 2.

16.15. Attacking ruck Thompson 3. Swainston 3.

16.20. Attacking ruck. Young 2. Mullan 2.

16.25. What was Mallinder doing? Sees Daly running that great line, plants his feet and leans the other way. Great footwork from Daly, and superb acceleration.

17.50. Very poor restart from us, very very poor.

18.08. Great rip by AJ on Picamoles, that's the way to get one back on him.

18.14. Attacking ruck. Myall 3.

18.30 Attacking ruck. Young 2.

18.31 Just noticed from a lot of crowd yelling that this is likely one of those times people feel Saints were offside. Simpson does a dummy at the ruck here. Mention it later (this is another rewatch), but I don't blame CMK for not caring for offsides when Simpson is illegally dummying himself.

18.50 Attacking ruck. Taylor 2. Myall 1.

19.30. Defensive ruck. Thompson 3. Launch 3.

20.48 Was that not a double movement from Dickson? Tackled, tackler never lost contact, and just gets back up?

20.52 Northampton have had 2 phases, made 10 meters, and are still in possession, a poor pass from the acting scrum half leads to them knocking on and we go all the way back to a northampton scrum. I guess they should have got it from Dicksons double movement anyway.

About 1/4 of the way through. Lots of not so good kicking from both sides. Feels like we're losing the territory battle for the most part. Maul defence is looking solid, as is the scrum.

21.47 Noted later I believe that AJ was at 8, this time he's at 6 for a defensive scrum.

22.05 Defensive ruck. Young 2.

22.11. Defensive ruck. Johnson 2. Thompson 3. Swainston 1.

22.20 Defensive ruck. Myall 3. Swainston 2. AJ 3 (but he gives away a penalty, debated not giving ruck marks here, but effort is there), penalty advantage goes to nothing anyway as they score.

22.30 Defensive ruck. Thompson 3. Mullan 2. What is Wade doing there? It's not the first time I've mentioned him getting sucked into rucks needlessly. He's acheiving nothing, but left his wing completely open. Is he going to stop a forward charging from the base? No, so don't be the pillar, and maybe you can hit Waller hard enough to slow him down for others.

24.20 Another poor restart, far too long. Is kicking to North (this is the second time) really smart? He's not a liability under the high ball, and unless the distance is spot on, he'll punish us.

24.32 Defensive ruck. Taylor 1.

25 Really feels like we've only had perhaps 3 attacking positions, and once of them comes through so quickly to a try, that we've not had much ball. Now we have a scrum in their half.

25.58 Saints get us in the scrum, and Thompson appears to knock on at the base, missed by CMK thankfully.

26 Good run of service from Simpson. Because we're going forwards we get an offside call. But again, within 3-5 phases we've got points. We don't hold the ball for long periods because we either screw it up within 5 phases or score.

26.04. Attacking ruck. Johnson 4. Young 2, Myall 2.

26.10. Attacking ruck. Taylor 1. Mullan 2.

26.17. Attacking ruck, Swainston 1.

26.22 Attacking ruck. Young 2. Mullan 2.

28.15 Attacking ruck. Taylor 1. Mullan 2.

29.52 Attacking ruck. Thompson 1. Why didn't Simpson get this away quickly? Good front foot ball, clearly available. Johnson offering himself on a hard line. 5 Saints offside. Great chance to punch forwards again, got Thompson in close support, and gives the backs time to align. Hands on the ball at 29.53, Johnson at pace at 29.54. Passes to a static Johnson at 29.59. Quick ball is 2 seconds or under for a ruck, this was miles off.

30.03 Attacking ruck. Young 3. Myall 3. Mullan 1. Launch 1. Another poor box kick from Simpson, barely any ground made, just about into Saints half. We had a good scrum, made good yards on the front foot, and end up kicking the ball away and barely making halfway, fortunately get it back. By now in my mind, poor kicks are just poor kicks, you know it's windy.

30.20 Attacking ruck. Launch 4. Thompson 2.

30.30ish. Wade in touch (a toe), not enough and fast enough (and far enough) to not be noticed. For me this is like the slight forward pass you sometimes get from a huge break at the end, being missed. It's earned due to fast play. To those suggesting it should have been TMO'd it's not foul play and can't be.

30.42 Defensive ruck. Young 2.

32.30 Another bad restart, but also a bad call from CMK calling the knock on. Attacking ruck. Taylor 2, Launch 2. Not sure if that came from the sidelines.

33.14 Saints scrum. Wonder how long this has been going on. AJ is packing down at 8. Probably because we want Young/Thompson as the break away defenders.

33.45. Have to say, I think we should go with Thompson in place of Young for the next few games. Young has seemed quiet. Perhaps ruck marks will change my mind.

34.14. Attacking ruck. Johnson 2. Swainston 2. Calls for offside from the crowd, but CMK correctly calls tackle only, can't say I've noticed much offside otherwise, but it's not always clear from angles.

34.26 Attacking ruck. Launch 2.

34.34 Attacking ruck. Thompson 3. Launch 2. Young 2.

34.41 Attacking ruck. Young 2. Mullan 2. Anyone complaining about Mallinders penalty needs to watch it again. Hands clearly on the floor when Young creates a ruck, Mullan gets there too, then he picks up the ball. Suggesting this is similar to the Launch one later is ludicrous.

36.05. I know Gopps is a good kicker, and I know the team think so too. But why is no one chasing that? Half the players have turned around to walk back!

36.54 Attacking ruck. AJ 3. Thompson 2.

36.58. Attacking ruck. AJ 2. Swainston 3. Thompson 2. Launch 2.

37.04 Attacking ruck. Myall 3. Mullan 2.

37.11 Attacking ruck. Thompson 2.

37.14 Beale kicks through. Unlucky with the bounce I guess, but not the best kick through. Doesn't look an awful decision though, but it's speculative, he could have stepped back in. The counter attack leads to quick ball, our defence doesn't sort itself. Saints score with North. High challenge from WLR, but it's not a penalty restart, offence happens before the ball goes dead, advantage, try scored, advantage over. Normal restart. Suspect there was a forward pass in the build up, but two phases go by anyway, so CMK can't go back to check. Advantage of playing fast rugby is you get away with some of these, we certainly have.

39.45ish. Restart is again a bit too long. No more excuses with the wind.

39.54. Defensive ruck. Young 3. Great then to setup a choke tackle, we rip the ball, and knock it on (knock on by young).

Second half.

40. For some reason Saints go longer and more or less unchallenged. Myall still fluffs his lines.

40.15 Attacking ruck. Launch 2, Mullan 2 , Thompson 2

40.32 Young 2, Myall 2, Thompson 2, Taylor 1, Mullan 1

41.35ish. That is not a trip Austin. Daly clearly grabs and pulls Foden down by the arm, perhaps their legs collide, but Daly's legs always seem to be behind Foden when I'm trying to watch it.

42.13 No way Myler is onside at that scrum, the rest are close. Haven't checked the rest, but probably common for both sides.

42.30. Lovely pass to AJ from Launch, running a great line and a great offload. Really impressive scramble defensve from Saints.

42.42 Attacking ruck, Myall 3, Thompson 2.

43.00 Attacking ruck. Launch 3, Mullan 3.

43.10 Magic from Wade. Some people saying it was a lucky bounce, but Wade had already burned North, and North was falling over before the weird bounce even happened. Wade was going to be first to the ball no matter what, if anything the bounce made it harder, since he had to change direction again to take it. Scrum to score in just 4 rucks.

44.30 Another screwed up restart, just beaten in the air, we need to load up at the front a bit more if we're going to be losing these.

44.46 Defensive ruck. Taylor 2.

44.55 Defensive ruck. Johnson 2.

45 AJ comes off. Seems to be walking quite freely, I suspect it's just a precaution, and he stayed on the last few minutes just to give Hughes time to warm up.

46.05 Attacking ruck. Thompson 2. Young 2.

46.30 Missed kick to touch. Not even close, 5m off, and the wind seem to help pull it closer to the line towards the end.

46.45 Great take from Hughes there. Attacking ruck. Taylor 3. Launch 2. Mullan 1.

47 That was a good decision from Beale (lovely line for the break), good kick, Wade was ahead too, better bounce would have been another try.

47.44 Defensive ruck. Swainston 1.

48 Attacking ruck. Launch 2. Taylor 2. Swainston 1.

48.12 Attacking ruck. Myall 3.

48.16 Attacking ruck. Thompson 2, Taylor 2.

48.24 Attacking ruck. Hughes 2. Myall 3. Taylor 2.

48.28 More calls offside from the crowd, Simpson has clearly picked it up before the defence comes up.

48.31 Attacking ruck. Taylor 2. Thompson 2.

48.50. Lovely inside pass from WLR to Daly. Superb sheparding defence from Saints to kill that attack.

50.19 Attacking ruck. Young 3. Launch 2. Saints offside at this one, not given.

50.26 Attackig ruck. Thompson 2. Mullan 2. Taylor 2.

50.31 Attacking ruck. Taylor 2. Myall 2. Swainston 2.

50.39 Attacking ruck. Young 2. Simpson takes an age to work this one out. If we're not doing forwards pick and go from the ruck, the one out passes have to been done quickly, otherwise the defence is set and we're going to lose ground. Guess what, we lose 2m.

50.45 Simpson dummies again at one of these rucks. I think I saw it before too, but trickier camera angle. It's a bugbear of mine, and I do actually want it to be penalised, but I'm certainly not going to complain about offsides whilst he does it. He does it again in the next ruck or two (mentioned in text)

50.48 Attacking ruck. Launch 2. Swainston 2. Simpson dummies from the ruck, CMK fortunately just tells him he can't dummy, rather than penalising him as he should have done.

50.57 Attacking ruck. Mullan 2, Swainston 2. We then try the pick and go, but we're not great at it.

51.02 Attacking ruck. Taylor 2. Launch 2.

51.09 Attacking ruck. Swainston 2. Nice from Simpson to spot the space on the blindside and strike.

53.05 Attacking ruck. Young 2. Swainston 2.

53.10 Great run from Hughes, powering through. Wonder if he just needed to come back into playing slowly after his break, has looked very hungry.

53.13 Attacking ruck. Launch 2. Taylor 2. Swainston 1. Myall 1.

53.20 Maybe Robson is just luckier with the wind, perfect bounce inside the pitch and off.

54.13 Defensive ruck. Hughes 1 (he's sort of standing there and someone grabs him, so he helpfully sticks his boot in the way of the ball, worth a 1)

54.20 Defensive ruck. Young 3.

54.35. When I first saw this penalty I thought it was very harsh, now it's fair enough. Hughes backs into Saints territory, had he not been shoved over and hit the ball with his feet, he'd have gotten away with it, but the moment he impacts play like that CMK had no choice.

55.17 Receiver well and truly shielded by his lifters again. Probably happens when Wasps successfully maul too, but still annoying, mostly as our lineout has been poor off the top ball.

55.20 First ruck we've struggled with. But we stay legal well, and personally I think should have got a use it call earlier. Even stop a good breakaway maul. Unlucky that they get it clear I reckon.

55.46 Defensive ruck. Young 3.

55.58 Defensive ruck. Thompson 1.

56.03 Defensive ruck. Myall 1.

56.13 Defensive ruck. Hughes 2. Taylor 1.

56.20 Defensive ruck. Mullan 3. Thompson 1.

56.25 Defensive ruck. Thompson 1.

56.30 Defensive ruck. Young 1. Hughes 1.

56.40 Lucky that no Saints player seems to realise they just need to touch the base of the post to score. Great defence to keep them out.

56.44 Defensive ruck. Taylor 1.

56.50. Defesnive ruck. Hughes 1.

56.54 Defeensive ruck. Hughes 2. Thompson 1.

57.02. Defesnive ruck. Myall 1. Thompson 1.

[Raggs]

60.06 Far too long a restart.

60.11 Defensive ruck. Thompson 3. PDJ 3.

60.23. Defensive ruck. Symons 3. PDJ 2.

60.35 Hughes is going to have nightmares about that one, especially after taking one high ball really nicely earlier.

61.56 I thought that their try off the scrum may have been a one off error by Thompson, but here he again comes up to scrum alongside the tighthead, leaving Picamoles free to charge at Robson.

62.23. Defensive ruck. Hughes 2.

62.41. Defensive ruck. Hughes 3.

62.45 Our defence here is fast too passive, it wasn't fast ball either.

62.53. Defensive ruck. Taylor 1.

63. Defensive ruck. Launch 5. Penalty wasn't for not releasing, or Launch winning the ball, it was Myler clearly coming in at the side, before Launch getting the turnover was even relevant.

63.40 As I suspected, we clearly get our lifters protecting Launch when forming that maul, no different to saints.

64.14 OK, we regather, but that was a bad decision to kick, followed by a bad kick, for me. We've got the numbers advantage, plenty of support players too. Instead Gopps kicks 8m forwards (it doesn't even get out of our half), and it's a 50/50. Thankfully Bassett gets it, however officially he gets turned over, thankfully we have the pen advantage. I guess that makes the kick slightly more understandable, but it should have been a good way further down the field, and even then I reckon it was a poor decision.

64.23 Attacking ruck. Young 3. Launch 2.

65.45 Very sloppy by Cruse there, clearly breaks off and moves 2 bodies further down the maul.

67 Defensive ruck. Thompson 1.

67.13 Truly pathetic from PDJ, doesn't even try and tackle, no urgency at all.

Cips on

68.23 Cipriani fanboy time. Much better weighted restart. Daly is a meter away when North catches it.

68.28 Defensive ruck. Thompson 2.

69.15 Attacking ruck. Hughes 2.

69.22 Attacking ruck. Cruse 3.

69.27 Cipriani non-fanboy time. Very poor pass to no one.

69.35 attacking ruck. Symons 3. PDJ 2.

69.44. Attacking ruck. Hughes 2. Ping for obstruction, no try. I'd be very annoyed if that obstruction hadn't been noticed had it gone against us, fair call.

70.41 Attacking ruck. Young 2. Symons 2. Mullan 1.

70.46 Attacking ruck. Launch 2. Hughes 1.

71.05 Attacking ruck. Mullan 4. Symons 3.

71.13 Attacking ruck. PDJ 3. Symons 3.

72.10 The number of balls we've had go too high at the lineout, I wonder if our normal lifters get the players higher.

72.29 Defensive ruck. Thompson 3.

73.20 Attacking ruck. Mullan 2. Hughes 2.

73.28 Attacking ruck. Symons 2. Thompson 2.

73.35 Attacking ruck. Thompson 2. Symons 1.

73.40 Cips kick through, saw him get some flak for this (not sure if it was here). He had no good passing options on, only a back in position to clear out, with 3 or so Saints forwards on him, would have been a turnover had he kept it. Can someone suggest a better option? Forces Saints to pass back into their 22 to clear, with the Wasps defensive line moving up. Had Foden not put as much on it, our back three could have counter attacked, with most of Saints offside. At worst we'd have had a 22, or a chance for Beale to counter attack.

75.36 PDJ gives away a free kick on our attacking scrum.

76.10 Attacking ruck. Cruse 3. Thompson 2. PDJ 2.

76.24 Attacking ruck. Symons 3. Hughes 2.

76.37 attacking ruck. YOung 2.

76.45 Real shame Thompson didn't give that away.Perhaps thinks he's already clear of Mallinder and trying to draw the last defenders before freein him up, but Wade had yards of space to play with there.

76.58 Attacking ruck. PDJ 3.

77.09 Attacking ruck. Launch 2.

77.30ish? When Hughes picks and goes for the 2nd time, and the ball gets killed, they really should have received a warning by then (even ignoring them not getting one killing it on their 5m).

78.18 Attacking ruck. Symons 2. Cruse 3. Launch 2. Hughes 1.

78.26 Healy says Cips gets whiteline fever, not sure I agree, Saints seem to be numbered up. He gets a nice enough offload off to Daly anyway. Maybe out the back to Wade to go to the outside could have worked, but if he'd have been caught it would've been tough to support him (pen advantage anyway I guess). Debatable option there for me.

79.25 It's a bit daft that it's not a yellow by now with the repeated red zone infringements and 2? lineout mauls brought down.

79.31 Symons taken in the air that time, no advantage. Thankfully they collapse it anyway.

79.50 Attacking ruck. Thompson 2.

80+ Fairly sure we could have called scrum, regardless of what Healey thinks, but given PDJ had cost us one already, probably a good idea not to.

80.53 Attacking ruck. Launch 4. Symons 3. Thompson 2.

That game felt so much like a lot of games we've had recently. Very little ball in decent attacking areas, and what we get, is poor set piece leading to us either turning it over, or needing to clear it with a kick. When we hold onto the ball we're ridiculously dangerous, but getting it started is the problem. Restarts went completely to pot again. Sarries will eat us alive if we don't sharpen up, they'll play the same territory game that clearly works against us, and pressure our set piece and receivers, so without accuracy, we'll never have the ball to attack with. It's amazing, when we keep good ball, we normally score within 5 phases or so I believe, but because we score so quickly, we end up giving possession back to the opposition due to poor restarts too often (or clearing to half way etc). Our defence needs to be more consistently aggressive for me, and defensive breakdown work needs massive improvement, we miss Smith.

Ruck marks - rucks hit
Mullan 41 20 rucks
Taylor 45 24 rucks - 64 minutes
Swainston 32 17 rucks - 60 minutes
Launch 55 24 rucks
Myall 35 16 rucks - 58 minutes
Johnson 20 9 rucks - 46 minutes
Young 44 24 rucks
Thompson 72 35 rucks
Cruse 9 3 rucks - 16 minutes
PDJ 15 6 rucks - 20 minutes
Symons 25 10 rucks - 22 minutes
Hughes 24 15 rucks - 34 minutes


Total interactions - (rucks, tackles, carries, runs, passes) - Per minute.
Mullan - 33 - 0.41
Taylor - 43 - 0.67
Swainston - 25 - 0.42
Launch - 46 - 0.58
Myall - 31 - 0.53
Johnson - 21 - 0.46
Young - 52 - 0.65
Thompson - 64 - 0.8
Cruse - 8 - 0.5
PDJ - 9 - 0.45
Symons - 19 - 0.86
Hughes - 33 - 0.97

This obviously ignores things like lineout takes, which is draining on the legs, lifting which is obviously draining too, and scrums (draining mostly for front row and locks). Subs can clearly work at a higher rate, since they know they aren't expected to go 80. However, what we can clearly see from this, is that Thompson was a fecking beast. Young also put in a good shift, but if I had to chose between one of them, I'd be going with Thompson at the moment due to his extra carrying ability (12 carries, 63m, 3 breaks, 3 defenders beaten!) and his truly immense workrate in the breakdown. It's tougher to be in the breakdown when you're tackling (19 for Young, 13 for Thompson), but even so, it's clear Thompson is on fire at the moment.

Now, one of the main reasons I chose this game is because I wanted to see if I was being extremely unfair in my opinion of AJ not being capable of keeping up with Wasps starting in the backrow. Having done ruck marks before, I'm very aware of how much work can be easily missed, Hartley from the 6N being the biggest surprise to me (by god does he work hard), and so wanted to do this for a game where Johnson started at 6. I decided before the game to do it, so as to not know if it would be a good or bad game, and from the comments I've read, most people thought he had a good game, so it doesn't seem like an outlier on other peoples perceptions. He clearly isn't doing enough of the backrow work for me. His workrate is closer to that of a prop, than a backrow, conveniently, he's moved to the front row! Taylor is a freak in terms of work rate, and I don't expect Johnson to match that, since he offers other things, but he's a luxury in the backrow that I don't believe our game can afford. Please don't get me wrong though, I think he's a fantastic ball player, and if he's in a side of mine, I'm giving him a free roaming role, he picks great lines, has great power, good hands and good vision for a pass etc. I'm not criticising his skills, he's probably one of the most skillful forwards we have, I'm basically agreeing with him, when he made the choice to leave the backrow due to his fitness/speed (not 40m footrace speed).

Another fun reason to watch this game a bit more closely, was a lot of people got their wish with Gopperth starting. Again, I feel I have to point out that I do rate Gopperth as a very good player, I just think Cips is the better 10. In the first 67 minutes, we have 49 attacking breakdowns, and Gops passed the ball 15 times all game (at least one was from a caught kick, and there may have been one or two once he was playing at 12), when Cips came on, with 12 minutes to play, we had 19 attacking rucks, and Cips passed 12 times. Now at times going for a run is on, and it's the right choice, but Gops was 15 passes and 11 runs (touched the ball 28 times in total, some of those were with Cips on the pitch too), Cips passed 12 times and ran 6 (19 touches in total). When Cips is on the field he's pulling the strings and running the game. Gopps kicking out of hand was also poor for a lot of kicks too, perhaps due to lack of in game practice, but missing a kick to touch is rather common for him.

Overall we won by the skin of our teeth, lucky to get our attack firing just often enough. CMK I felt was OK, but slow on the yellow. Our discipline was actually impressive, with only 5 penalties, and a fair few of them early (for which we got a warning!). Our maul defence continues to impress too, and again our scrum (except PDJ) was solid. Our defence is still our achilles heel, and due to our need for possession in half decent areas, we need to either start getting more turnovers, or start being consistently aggressive and forcing them to kick to us on our terms.

I'd be seriously considering starting Symons (Gaskell's return muddies the waters a bit there), Thompson in for Young, and Hask to 6. Hughes looked so much fresher than he has recently and was hungry for work. Hopefully Moore will be back soon, but JCW's return means we don't have to rely on PDJ again, and soon enough big Mac will be back, and Mullan can blow himself out in the second half, rather than having to work for the full 80. Hope that AJ recovers quickly, as much as I like Cruse's attitude, AJ is probably the best impact player in the AP, and if he only has 20-25 to work, can blow himself out over the course of it.

I'd probably continue with the 10. Cips 12. Gopps combo. Beale has spent a lot of time at 15, and due to that I'd keep him there. Bassett vs WLR is a closer call than it perhaps should be, but I love the way WLR joins the line and acts as a distributor, so I'd probably stick with him.

If you've made it all the way through that, congratulations! You're nearly as nerdy as I am winking smiley.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I've scanned through it and will have a proper read later.  I like the points system, and I like that it shows Thompson to be so dominant.

I'll look at upping the character limit.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Thanks for doing this Raggs, it's a very interesting read.  Seeing the numbers as an objective measure makes it much less open to personal interpretation, but I still think I disagree with a few of your conclusions.

I agree that Cips is a better distributor than Gopps, but I don't think the intercept is any reason not to play him.  Just like I don't think the odd charge down, or booting the ball right into the back of one of his own team mates is a reason to drop Cips.  I think the two of them have different strengths and weaknesses and we chould be picking based on how we want the team to function.

For me the way Cips plays typifies our entire approach.  It is exciting and he manages to do things that other people simply wouldn't dream of being possible.  But he regularly messes up with things that we should expect a professional to do without any problems.  That is Wasps all over.  Gopperth is a much more direct player, he doesn't have the flair, but is solid as a rock.  His mistakes come when he tries to match the way Cips plays.

Cips has a reputation for being an easy target.  He is regularly selected as a weak spot in our line either defensively, or as a focal point for the blitz against us.  No-one in their right mind thinks of Gopps that way.  Add to that the fact that Cips has clearly been carrying a knock for a little while and I'd start Gopps at 10.  Let the other team run at him for 60 minutes and then bring Cips on if he's fit.

As to the back line I agree Thompson should start.  He played as if he'd never been away.  The person that worries me is Youngyoung.  His work rate is still good, and he's doing the basics well, but he seems to have lost the jackalling edge he developed under Smith's tutelage.  I worry that perhaps his inclusion in the Welsh national squad is to blame.  I can't help but wonder if he was told he needs to cut out on the risky stuff and concentrate on playing the way the current Welsh set-up play, when it was the risky stuff that made him such a revelation.  It was his ability to come up with the ball when he had no right to that made him so impressive.  Yes it lead to more penalties than we'd really like as he played right on the edge, but that was exactly the same for Smith too.  Now he's just another back rower.  Fewer penalities, but fewer turnovers too.

I thought Hughes really laid down a marker.  He's not been quite his usual self for a little while, but he made a big impact and I think he rightly laid claim to a starting spot again.  To me Hasks is the weak point in the back row at the moment, but hopefully that is just a hangover from the Internationals.

Let's see what Dai does later today!

[Raggs]

The ruck marks definitely make you realise a few things.  It helps if it's just one person doing it, since even if someone would disagree over the effectiveness, it tends to be consistent and even out.

Missing penalties to touch isn't trying to play like Cips.  Restarts being too long isn't trying to be Cips.  And Gopps was charged down in the Leinster game when he took over at 10, it's just it was only partial so didn't get knocked behind him, still happened though.  That intercept was just an awful awful play, Foden was there the whole time, trying to play like Cips or not, giving that pass was a bad call, and trying to suggest that it's because he wasn't playing his natural game is just making excuses for him I feel.  Cips is apparently healthy now (I don't believe the knock is an old one either from what I've been told). Wasps are never going to be a contain for 60 and break them in 20, we need to be trading blows, and then go for the knockout in the last 20.  Removing Cips for Gops just limits our ability to punch back, it's not going to solve the structural issues we have in defence, which are a far larger issue.  I believe Cips also has the better range on his boot, so Gops clearing tends to leave us a fair few meters further back, which just brings the pressure back on us.

Young is still picking up the penalties too is the problem, but definitely agree that he's not looked the same since coming back from the Welsh camp.  I'd bring him off the bench for 20, give him a chance to blow himself out against tiring opposition, and try and spark back into form.

Hughes was immense, he constantly seemed to be flagged as a potential injury doubt before most the england games, so hopefully he's not over what was plaguing him.  Hask didn't get the break the others did after the 6N, because he hadn't played much before them, but I still think he gave everything he had, and needed that break.  He's had it now, and if we have Thompson 7, I'd rather have Hask at 6 than Young.

EDIT - I'd also add that I like Cips as a 10, not because of the odd moment of magic, but his consistent phase to phase play.  When you watch him closely (for me always on a 2nd viewing (or later!)) you see how well he normally picks his passes and get's his team moving forwards.