TRP

[HDAWG]

But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.

I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.


While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV

I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.

So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.

[MarleyWasp]

I think people are being too harsh on Billy. He was in great form prior to his nasty leg injury in February 2019 and only had the odd match here and there last season, which would make it difficult for anyone to regain some form.

Realistically if we are signing a 10, it's going to be a third choice 10 as we have Umaga and Atkinson at the front of the queue. Billy knows the club and our systems so should be able to slot back in easily enough. We could do worse.

[JonnyD]

This is surely way off the mark.
Why would a player leave for more gametime or because he wasn’t offered a new deal and then come back on a new deal to sit behind Umaga and maybe Atkinson?
Searle has been playing a fair bit at Worcester recently showing some nice touches so sure they’d want to keep him, isn’t Weir off too?
This doesn’t make sense at all and probably not the type of FH we should be looking at either. He hasn’t really proved himself consistently since breaking through at Bristol, his strengths are already present in our two younger FHs as our his weaknesses

[westwaleswasp]

I remember being set upon when I suggested Searle was a better fit than Lima. Wasps fans were determined that Lima would come good, but at the time Searle had actually displaced a fit Lima to the bench, and quite rightly. He did not set the world alight, but if his contribution was a failure, what on earth was Lima's? Lima, paid big bucks 'did not work out' whilst Searle 'failed' or was average/underwhelming etc. That seems a bit harsh on what was supposed to be second choice ten, or a bit complementary to the guy paid more.
I certainly  don't think Searle  is the type of ten we need as Jacob is a better version, and ironically if we sign an old head it should be a Goode type for the bench on those wet winter evenings.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I remember being set upon when I suggested Searle was a better fit than Lima. Wasps fans were determined that Lima would come good, but at the time Searle had actually displaced a fit Lima to the bench, and quite rightly. He did not set the world alight, but if his contribution was a failure, what on earth was Lima's? Lima, paid big bucks 'did not work out' whilst Searle 'failed' or was average/underwhelming etc. That seems a bit harsh on what was supposed to be second choice ten, or a bit complementary to the guy paid more.
I certainly  don't think Searle  is the type of ten we need as Jacob is a better version, and ironically if we sign an old head it should be a Goode type for the bench on those wet winter evenings.

I cant help but disagree with this. Searle didn't displace Sops, Sops was just already failing to find any form and we had little other option. At his best Searle was competent, even now Sops mixes disastrous mistakes with flashes of brilliance. That is what makes it so disappointing that he never amounted anything in a Wasps shirt.

That, if anything, is Jacob's problem. We have long missed a skillful and imaginative 10 so when it looked like he could be that person we pinned all our hopes on him. The fact that he isn't either a natural genius, or the finished article is perfectly reasonable, and we should all cutbhim a bit more Slack and let him develop.

If we need another 10 andbiybisnt going to be a world class player, it needs to be someone with experience who can help the youngsters develop.

Searle is not that person.

[westwaleswasp]

I am pretty sure Searle did get picked over Lima eventually. I think  Dai confirmed it when specifically asked in interview, saying that was not injury or rotation but that Searle had earnt the shirt on merit. It was not for long, iirc Searle played well in half a European game, and got the nod over Lima for maybe two games a little further on, the second of which was Bristol, where he got injured, and that was basically that. I was not saying that Searle was especially good, just that people are either too harsh on him or too kind to Lima in their comments.

I don't think Searle would be a good acquisition, and I think it should be someone with experience, hence my suggestion of an Andy Goode type, so we don't disagree on the fundamentals.

[Shugs]

Ironically the type of experienced 10 we need is Searle's current clubmate Weir.

[HDAWG]

Ironically the type of experienced 10 we need is Searle's current clubmate Weir.

Sadly he's back off to Glasgow I believe.

[wasps]

The only way I can see it making sense is if Lee never wanted Searle to leave in the first place and felt he could really work with him.

I can't see it happening though

[Peej]

But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.

I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.


While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV

I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.

So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.

I don't get this, "we have youngsters so let's use them as they must be good enough and that'll fix everything." Worcester are currently playing loads of their youngsters and are being completely hammered.

Also, Spink and Simonds have both played in the first team when fit, but have been injured. Sirker can't get into a Championship side yet. Bacon is behind an example of rare quality in our squad - or would you pick him over Bassett, Zach or Paolo?

[RBB]

But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.

I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.


While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV

I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.

So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.

I don't get this, "we have youngsters so let's use them as they must be good enough and that'll fix everything." Worcester are currently playing loads of their youngsters and are being completely hammered.

Also, Spink and Simonds have both played in the first team when fit, but have been injured. Sirker can't get into a Championship side yet. Bacon is behind an example of rare quality in our squad - or would you pick him over Bassett, Zach or Paolo?

Regarding playing youngsters it can be a two-edged sword, Wuss have lost Nick David to Quins today. He was put into the first team and as a result of some good performances, has been monitored,  and has now gone to a club where he might win something. I hope we don't let that scenario occur with some of our more prodigious talent.

[westwaleswasp]

Our record over the last 5 years suggests that we might win something- two tight as a badger's backside finals and semis on top, all whilst Sarries were cheating. Certainly better than Bath, Quins, Sale or Bris over that time period. Or record over the last ten weeks suggests we are nowhere near, but things can change pretty quickly.
 

[Shugs]

Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.

If we played better we'd be more successful...

[Raggs]

Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.

If we played better we'd be more successful...

Very much so. But it feels very similar to before Dai left to me. There's a lot of very good things showing through, and not much is needed to flip it.

This is a chiefs side who were very strong and out for blood, and yet in the first half they were lucky they were so close (our errors handed them a lot of points). Yes, it all started to fall apart, and went from bad to worse, but that was a long way from a plucky first half where we played out of our skins with grit and determination holding off the exeter tide etc, only for the dam to burst. That was a game that we were in control for the first half, with hiccups giving them points. Unfortunately we then moved to all hiccups and no successes, and then we gave up.

Huge issues definitely, but there's still very much a top 4 team there, it's getting the performances to click. As others have said, it's now that Blackett faces his real test.