Worcester v Wasps: Post match thoughts.

[Marlow Nick]

Looks to me like our structured defense is good and our attack is OK. The problem seems to be our scramble defense multiplied by the number of cheap turnovers due to knock ons or wayward passes

Why are we giving away so much possession? Is it because we're trying to many low percentage options or not knowing what players around you are thinking or something else?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Looks to me like our structured defense is good and our attack is OK. The problem seems to be our scramble defense multiplied by the number of cheap turnovers due to knock ons or wayward passes

Why are we giving away so much possession? Is it because we're trying to many low percentage options or not knowing what players around you are thinking or something else?

From the bits of play that were level with me there was a lot of passing that was very flat for players to run on to, which is great but the rush defence put the receiver under pressure and passes that weren't perfect were either spilled or allowing them time to jackle or at least slow the ball down. It didn't happen too often but frustrating when it went wrong. Conversely it did lead to a few line breaks, especially when Alfie came on.

It might be something requiring a bit more analysis or it might just be me seeing the odd couple of times it happened.

Edit: I've just remembered a pass Alfie received that he had to lean back and juggle. He could easily have dropped it but he managed to keep hold, but the juggling allowed the defence to shut him down. If he'd received it just in front of him he'd probably have been through.
 

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Most of those wayward passes went wrong (including the one to Alfie) because the receiver had overrun. Alfie was in front when he received the ball, but it was OK because the ball was behind him. That, surely, was because the ball came from SH too slowly. That, in turn, could be for any number of reasons.

[Shugs]

Porter in particular throws a lot of passes that arrive at the receiver at head height or higher. That slows all the momentum.

[matelot22]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

[Covkid40]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

[Heathen]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

Not replacing Brooks with another TH of his scrummaging prowess, has left us very vulnerable.

[matelot22]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

We all know that prop and centre are our biggest issues at the moment. I don't think we look for props that will dominate in the scrum, we want them to play well in the loose as well, it's a rare thing to have props that do both. If they can at least achieve some sort of parity in the scrum we should be okay. When they have the luxury of rotation, which they have been denied thus far, they should be in a better place. Look how many games JTA has played FFS, he must be in pieces.
With regard to Launchbury, don't just judge him on playing ability, as a leader and example to the rest of the team, he brings more than any of our other locks.

[Neils]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

We all know that prop and centre are our biggest issues at the moment. I don't think we look for props that will dominate in the scrum, we want them to play well in the loose as well, it's a rare thing to have props that do both. If they can at least achieve some sort of parity in the scrum we should be okay. When they have the luxury of rotation, which they have been denied thus far, they should be in a better place. Look how many games JTA has played FFS, he must be in pieces.
With regard to Launchbury, don't just judge him on playing ability, as a leader and example to the rest of the team, he brings more than any of our other locks.

JTA - just stay behind at the end of the match and watch him. He almost always has time for the "fan stuff" and smiles his way through pain. He always looks knackered and most times he has a bag of ice taped to one or two joints. He needs resting but it seems impossible at the moment so he turns out. There are quite a few like that. We need players back without more injuries.

[matelot22]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

We all know that prop and centre are our biggest issues at the moment. I don't think we look for props that will dominate in the scrum, we want them to play well in the loose as well, it's a rare thing to have props that do both. If they can at least achieve some sort of parity in the scrum we should be okay. When they have the luxury of rotation, which they have been denied thus far, they should be in a better place. Look how many games JTA has played FFS, he must be in pieces.
With regard to Launchbury, don't just judge him on playing ability, as a leader and example to the rest of the team, he brings more than any of our other locks.

JTA - just stay behind at the end of the match and watch him. He almost always has time for the "fan stuff" and smiles his way through pain. He always looks knackered and most times he has a bag of ice taped to one or two joints. He needs resting but it seems impossible at the moment so he turns out. There are quite a few like that. We need players back without more injuries.

Couldn't agree more, we are asking an awful lot of our "fit" players at the moment, there must be several who are in dire need of a weekend off.

[Covkid40]

I agree some of the injuries at quality players but is launchbury going to improve our second row that much considering how well they have done, Jack would improve any team but with the flankers we have will it be a massive improvement?

Do you jest sir? Surely you must!

There are very few teams in possession of second rows that Launchbury would not bring improvement to.

They are quality players and of course they will bring improve. All I’m asking is is the improvement going to be massive and game changing? The players currently in those positions are actually high calibre players in their own right. The one place that will definitely improve will be the quantity of the bench. I only ask because a lot of people are saying let’s wait for the cavalry and everything will be fine and my worry is that our problems run deeper than that. For me the biggest issues are centres and props, the centre issue will definitely improve with returning players but we have a real issue at prop. Apart from Harris all our props are now fit I believe yet the only one you would say will dominate his opposite number is West, the rest are penalties waiting to happen

We all know that prop and centre are our biggest issues at the moment. I don't think we look for props that will dominate in the scrum, we want them to play well in the loose as well, it's a rare thing to have props that do both. If they can at least achieve some sort of parity in the scrum we should be okay. When they have the luxury of rotation, which they have been denied thus far, they should be in a better place. Look how many games JTA has played FFS, he must be in pieces.
With regard to Launchbury, don't just judge him on playing ability, as a leader and example to the rest of the team, he brings more than any of our other locks.

JTA - just stay behind at the end of the match and watch him. He almost always has time for the "fan stuff" and smiles his way through pain. He always looks knackered and most times he has a bag of ice taped to one or two joints. He needs resting but it seems impossible at the moment so he turns out. There are quite a few like that. We need players back without more injuries.

Couldn't agree more, we are asking an awful lot of our "fit" players at the moment, there must be several who are in dire need of a weekend off.

A good proportion of the players had 19 days off during the premiership cup games. JTA was prone to giving away penalties before this season. I don’t doubt his commitment and In the loose he’s probably our best prop. For me a props first and most important job is scrummaging and at the moment we’re just getting battered and giving up easy yards. In his defence I thought he did well when coming on after a hour and replacing Brookes but I’m not sure he’s a starter but I don’t see as we have any other options. The biggest disappointment for me is Stoltze I expected so much more.

[matelot22]

A good proportion of the players had 19 days off during the premiership cup games. JTA was prone to giving away penalties before this season. I don’t doubt his commitment and In the loose he’s probably our best prop. For me a props first and most important job is scrummaging and at the moment we’re just getting battered and giving up easy yards. In his defence I thought he did well when coming on after a hour and replacing Brookes but I’m not sure he’s a starter but I don’t see as we have any other options. The biggest disappointment for me is Stoltze I expected so much more.

As an ex prop myself (at colt level, until I was no longer considered big enough) I agree that a prop's first and foremost duty is to scrummage, but we're not a side that relies on forward dominance. Lee et al, seem to want props who can do a lot more. As I said previously, when allowed some rotation, if we can get parity (and no more) that should suit our playing style.

[Shugs]

Launchbury brings Lions level calibre. He would also allow Fifita and Stooke to rotate. He would also help scrum by dint of sheer ballast. It’s not really about individual roles in the front row. It’s about the unit. Once West starts at LH i think we’ll see better scrummaging as there’s not a lot better scrummaging LH in the league.  That’s where we’ve given most of the scrum pens up. But equally importantly it will help Toomaga-Allen. I think Scholtz was the man signed to be the scrummaging TH. It’s obvious something is amiss there and if it can’t be fixed we’ll need to get someone who is what we thought he would be.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Frost has been surprisingly good, but I think Cruse brings a lot of solidity to our front row. Our scrum certainly seems to be more successful when he's playing.