Post match thoughts

[Beasties]

Despite this season’s improvement up front we were overpowered by the Sale pack tonight.

Our backs are not of the standard you’d expect of a competitive Premiership team.

Really disappointed with Fekitoa who I hoped would step up to the plate in his last home game. I’m afraid he has not been vfm. 

I thought Oghre and Jack were our best players.

JW obv awesome, goes without saying. Oghre is learning and improving gradually, he’s also become Tommy Taylor’s successor with his relentless tackling. I’ve warmed to him. Obv Eddie dropped him from the squad now he’s a better player.

The one player I won’t be sad to see leave is Fekitoa. I wish him no ill but lately he’s been a liability/roadblock. So many borderline tackles, fumbles and inability to move the ball down the line. Spink will be a comfortable upgrade next season.

There have been a few comments this week saying our pack was about the best in the league. Too premature. Sale showed us that tonight. Schonert is the only TH to stand comparison with Koch, thankfully we’ve got the latter incoming. When West’s in trouble you know he’s up against real quality. Sale’s defence on their line shows us where we need to get to as a team, as does their maul defence. Our maul has improved on both sides but we’re now adequate rather than appalling.

I thought tonight’s result was fair and a good reminder that the run of games lately has put us all in too good a mood. There’s still a lot of improvements to be made. I think our backs will be more cohesive next season, keeping Mills will prove to be important in that respect I predict. Very clever player IF we can get him on the pitch.

As for blaming Atkinson for tonight’s loss, McGinty got pulled and DuPreez wasn’t exactly an upgrade.

[Shugs]

The real takeaway from that for me was that we only scored once, that being a try from a set piece, and were nilled at home for the entire second half (and much of the first). Add in the comments about our back division and recently about the form of Robson, and the common denominator here is Atkinson. All these players don’t suddenly go off overnight. He gives nothing for our backs to work with and just isn’t good enough at this level - yet. We can’t afford to indulge his potential at the expense of the team and progress at the club. We had a quality backline this evening that had nothing to work with which has been the case since Charlie has been playing 10. Until he has the personality and intelligence in his game to boss the back line and move opposition defences around, we are going to be solely reliant on what our forwards can wrestle out of the opposition. For example, in the second half Charlie got really flat to the line with a decent overlap, but instead of committing the opposition defensive line and offloading, he just held onto the ball and ended up at the bottom of a ruck and the opportunity was gone. We just don’t have an attack anymore.

A lot of this is down to the coaching, though. Surely any club needs the vision to bring in an experienced 10 to rotate with the younger 10’s and bring them through. We’ve just let the perfect candidate for that go to bring in another inexperienced 10 from Falcons. I’m all for young developing young English players, but not at the expense of performances and the rest of the players. I really can’t see where we go from here and worry that we’re not going to improve much on this regardless of who we bring in if there’s not attacking flair.

It was a pretty uninspiring evening and sad that Tempest’s mic was turned up so high that for an hour all you could hear was South African backchat. Hats off to Tempest for binning Jono Ross though because he had been constantly pushing it with his comments up until then.

It’s an inconvenient truth given the gravitas of the man but for me the problem was more 12 than 10.

[Rossm]

There are rumours that Elliot's injury may be a fracture/dislocation. If that is correct and God I hope they are wrong, then I doubt we will see him again this year.

[JonnyD]

Agree with the above, one out runners and predictable pick and gos was bread and butter to sale. Almost trying the beat them at their own game.
From half time or at least when Porter came on we then needed to beat them with tempo but then we made mistakes and our backline isn’t functioning. In the latter stages it looked like the forwards didn’t want the backs to have it as they’d mess it up.

I again draw comparisons to a confident Cipriani or Marcus Smith - with all that possession in their 22 they would demand the ball away from the forwards, they’d be screaming and kicking off if they didn’t get it, we’re not getting that from Charlie or Jimmy

[Bloke in North Dorset]

One incident towards the end really showed where it’s all been going wrong. After battering their line for an eternity Porter finally got his hands on the ball. He then passed backwards to where Feks had been instead of flat to an advancing Feks who by this time had a head of steam.

That’s basic communications and drills and we don’t do them under pressure. 

[Heathen]

One incident towards the end really showed where it’s all been going wrong. After battering their line for an eternity Porter finally got his hands on the ball. He then passed backwards to where Feks had been instead of flat to an advancing Feks who by this time had a head of steam.

That’s basic communications and drills and we don’t do them under pressure.

Brain dead springs to mind.

[Westy68]

For me I do think we have a massive 10 issue, Charlie is the last few has been non existent, you then add 12 and 13 and it’s a problem.

Jimmy has been a great servant but I would like to see Mills at 12 and spink at 13 or Paolo.

Not sure the Hougaard wing thing is working but we have such poor choices at the moment.

At 10 we’re is trouble as that can’t be changed, let’s hope next season it’s better

I really hope Berger is a good 12 and Mills isn’t injured. We need to bring in a winger if not 2 and of course a 15. Porter had a few good games but he has gone back to his normal standard, therefore a 9 would be a good shout.

Our backs needs changing as I’m really trying to think which team our backs our better then and I can’t 

[Covkid40]

I usually post straight after the game but last night I couldn’t go so recorded it and watched it later. This gave the the benefit of rewinding and watching bits again. The truth is we have a pack that in the main will win us lots of ball and will only get better next year. The backs well oh dear where to start, they are truly awful. Going purely on form this season who in our back division would any of the top 6 sides want? Of that back division who will improve next season? Dobby can’t be as bad again next season, I’d like to think Charlie will improve with the experience  and a pre season, I really hope Umanga can find a level of consistency, Spink will improve if he gets game time, Paulo will be a threat. The problem is all of this is wishes and hopes. Some posters have spoken about the quality Mills has OMG the bloke never plays. For me it all adds up to a forwards based game as I can’t see the backs really improving and giving much more than this year. God I hope I’m wrong

[Egret]

The real takeaway from that for me was that we only scored once, that being a try from a set piece, and were nilled at home for the entire second half (and much of the first). Add in the comments about our back division and recently about the form of Robson, and the common denominator here is Atkinson. All these players don’t suddenly go off overnight. He gives nothing for our backs to work with and just isn’t good enough at this level - yet. We can’t afford to indulge his potential at the expense of the team and progress at the club. We had a quality backline this evening that had nothing to work with which has been the case since Charlie has been playing 10. Until he has the personality and intelligence in his game to boss the back line and move opposition defences around, we are going to be solely reliant on what our forwards can wrestle out of the opposition. For example, in the second half Charlie got really flat to the line with a decent overlap, but instead of committing the opposition defensive line and offloading, he just held onto the ball and ended up at the bottom of a ruck and the opportunity was gone. We just don’t have an attack anymore.

A lot of this is down to the coaching, though. Surely any club needs the vision to bring in an experienced 10 to rotate with the younger 10’s and bring them through. We’ve just let the perfect candidate for that go to bring in another inexperienced 10 from Falcons. I’m all for young developing young English players, but not at the expense of performances and the rest of the players. I really can’t see where we go from here and worry that we’re not going to improve much on this regardless of who we bring in if there’s not attacking flair.

It was a pretty uninspiring evening and sad that Tempest’s mic was turned up so high that for an hour all you could hear was South African backchat. Hats off to Tempest for binning Jono Ross though because he had been constantly pushing it with his comments up until then.

It’s an inconvenient truth given the gravitas of the man but for me the problem was more 12 than 10.

As much as I hate to say it, I'm a +1

[Egret]

  5) The spectacle of a group of players obviously desperate to do well but devoid of the knowledge/composure/ideas to do it.

This is the most worrying thing.

[mike909]

I decided to sleep on it but it's really no better in the cold light of day. Up front we're in a position where a couple of additions will make us more than decent. I do think as an old prop, that we don't adapt to officiating well and last night was an example. Not sure anyone quite got what the ref was thinking at scrum time but we didn't use our top two inches to adapt. FWIW (v little...) I did think the ref was wrong too often. But it was Tempo....

I watch a lot of Super Rugby, what sticks out is the ability of all XV to play ball in hand. When I think of our run to the Prem final, that included a lot of all court play - something that's been missing in action too often, in recent times. What needs answering though is why we can play so well for 65 mins vs LI and then a couple of games later, look like we've been introduced in the car park...There's something very wrong behind the pack. And as an old prop, I'll leave it to others to set out the problems, but too often, we don't seem to be on the same team....and fail in the basics.

I will make minor excuses in that there are too many players with too many games this season - due to the injury crisis, but surely we can do the basics? Surely we ought to have some basic plans?

[JonnyD]

One incident towards the end really showed where it’s all been going wrong. After battering their line for an eternity Porter finally got his hands on the ball. He then passed backwards to where Feks had been instead of flat to an advancing Feks who by this time had a head of steam.

That’s basic communications and drills and we don’t do them under pressure.

Brain dead springs to mind.

Watching this back I think the pass was actually meant to go to Atkinson and Fekitoa got in the way, judging by the trajectory of the ball and Atkinson and Porter’s reaction.

Another pass where Crossdale spilt it I think was also meant to go to Bassett, but this one is a bit more dubious and maybe just a bad pass and catch.

Whatever happened, our backs looked rusty and lacking cohesion even off set moves, not slick at all and very rushed - we haven’t got anyone at the moment who looks like they have, what often gets referred to as, ‘more time on the ball’ and can pick out passes at will

[Wombles]

After sleeping on it I am still disappointed. The backs are now clearly an issue, and I think one key moment is when we had multiple phases on Sales try line in the final 10 minutes, where the forwards kept pounding away and the backs were left standing there. Eventually when it did go wider Porter passed high and behind Fekitoa and the knock on came. This tells me 2 things. 1: The forwards are not confident in the backs to do the job. 2: The backs are not playing well enough to do the job.

Looking at our backs performance it is so bad it terms of communication, ability, style and play that this falls squarely onto the coaches. When backs are playing this badly coaching failures are usually to blame. It is clear there is no strategy, no one really knows what lines they are running, what plays/moves they are doing or what to do if it goes multi phase as we cannot even get the first move done smoothly. We have a skills coach in Ed Robinson, but we have no dedicated backs coach and it really really shows! Perhaps the biggest signing we need is a specialist backs coach, and Ed really needs to up his game because the catching, passing, handling, movement and ability to execute under pressure are all substandard, and that lands directly on his doorstep! The coaches really need to work out how they want the whole team to play because what they are doing so far is not working.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

One incident towards the end really showed where it’s all been going wrong. After battering their line for an eternity Porter finally got his hands on the ball. He then passed backwards to where Feks had been instead of flat to an advancing Feks who by this time had a head of steam.

That’s basic communications and drills and we don’t do them under pressure.

Brain dead springs to mind.

Watching this back I think the pass was actually meant to go to Atkinson and Fekitoa got in the way, judging by the trajectory of the ball and Atkinson and Porter’s reaction.

Another pass where Crossdale spilt it I think was also meant to go to Bassett, but this one is a bit more dubious and maybe just a bad pass and catch.

Whatever happened, our backs looked rusty and lacking cohesion even off set moves, not slick at all and very rushed - we haven’t got anyone at the moment who looks like they have, what often gets referred to as, ‘more time on the ball’ and can pick out passes at will

If it was meant to go to Atkinson that’s even more of a breakdown in communication. They must have a call in these situations and if Feks should have known he was the dummy runner.

[Rossm]

Please note, this is not intended as an excuse (even though it may sound like one!). Nobody has mentioned that we only had a 6 day turn around from the heat and friction burns in Lyon. Sale did not play last weekend. Significant? I'll let others decide.