Squad 22/23

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Last season the squad performance was a lot less than the sum of the parts, in no small part because of the number of long term injuries and who was injured. In a lot of games the team was also less than the some of the parts, in some of those games because of all the injury driven chopping and changing and bringing in loan players at short notice. 

This season if the squad performs to its potential I don’t see why we shouldn’t get top 6-10, ie around 8, if it performs well then I don’t wee why we can’t get 5-6 and be able to realistically dream of 4. 

[Neils]

Last season the squad performance was a lot less than the sum of the parts, in no small part because of the number of long term injuries and who was injured. In a lot of games the team was also less than the some of the parts, in some of those games because of all the injury driven chopping and changing and bringing in loan players at short notice. 

This season if the squad performs to its potential I don’t see why we shouldn’t get top 6-10, ie around 8, if it performs well then I don’t wee why we can’t get 5-6 and be able to realistically dream of 4.

Nice

[WonkyWasp]

How marvellous and unusual at this moment to read something hopeful and optimistic.  Thank you Jac A and Backdoc.   The only correction I would make is to Backdoc's contribution ....  Porter and Willis T  are exactly the same in age.  Well, Will is all of  4 weeks older than Tom. Sorry  -  being picky!

[Steve from Cov]

Love the annual optimism.
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact. The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
It's fine thinking we'll have him for Europe..we're in the Challenge cup and likely will be next season..
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.

Oh dear 😅

[westwaleswasp]

I agree in a small part with Hymenoptera. It is not that Koch is a poor value signing or anything, I think he will be fine VFM. But, our backs last year were the worst I have ever seen in B and G  and we have not recruited enough here. I think as Jac says we have recruited for a different game plan. I also think it is a huge tactical blunder for the club, the game plan is a pound shop Tigers and I think it is
the game plan of a DOR looking to not get sacked and looking for 'progresss' of a couple of placed  not one aiming to win pots in a couple of years.

There is hope. If Minozzi comes good he is class. Mills is class when fit. Dobby can't be as bad for he was at times. Odogwu is a point of difference. But a couple of new injuries and we will look threadbare. Lots is a gamble with the squad as is. Maybe it will all click. But equally it could go the other way and we needs bums on seats. That means sparkling backs or  wins most weeks.

[Rossm]

I agree in a small part with Hymenoptera. It is not that Koch is a poor value signing or anything, I think he will be fine VFM. But, our backs last year were the worst I have ever seen in B and G  and we have not recruited enough here. I think as Jac says we have recruited for a different game plan. I also think it is a huge tactical blunder for the club, the game plan is a pound shop Tigers and I think it is
the game plan of a DOR looking to not get sacked and looking for 'progresss' of a couple of placed  not one aiming to win pots in a couple of years.

There is hope. If Minozzi comes good he is class. Mills is class when fit. Dobby can't be as bad for he was at times. Odogwu is a point of difference. But a couple of new injuries and we will look threadbare. Lots is a gamble with the squad as is. Maybe it will all click. But equally it could go the other way and we needs bums on seats. That means sparkling backs or  wins most weeks.

I am going to sound like a stuck record - both Mills, Odogwu and also Fek were long term injured. Jimmy was a horrible bottleneck and was targeted by oppo defences. Dobby had lost form and wasn't providing the sort of ball that we have come to expect. Jacob got 2 reds which, later in the season, might not even have seen a yellow. Charlie was half crocked with a pound or two of strapping on his leg. It's no wonder the wings never saw the ball. H'optera has taken an acute dislike to Odendaal and is knocking him before he's even pulled on a Wasps' jersey. I may be a hopeless optimist but let's at least see a game or three before spreading alarm and despondency.

[backdoc]

How marvellous and unusual at this moment to read something hopeful and optimistic.  Thank you Jac A and Backdoc.   The only correction I would make is to Backdoc's contribution ....  Porter and Willis T  are exactly the same in age.  Well, Will is all of  4 weeks older than Tom. Sorry  -  being picky!

Yes, but it is about more than chronological age. Alo is getting on a bit but is pretty fresh, and his career trajectory will differ from, say Charlie Atkinson. Tom Willis has already played ?? >50 games I think. Porter has been a starter for just over half a season.

Getting a team full of chaps who won a world cup 7 years ago may look good on paper but may be unbalanced in all sorts of ways. A good squad will feel that most of the players around them are still improving.

[WonkyWasp]

Completely agree Backdoc.  Tom is more mature and rugby experienced, especially internationally during his Academy years.

[Shugs]

Hymonentera I think there are numerous reasons that we are stronger - if the comparison is to last year. 1) We started last season with a serious injury roll call of Launchbury, Willis, Odogwu, West, Robson and to a lesser extent Barbeary. This year that is Stooke. 2) Atkinson and Spink have had valuable game time. 3) Recruitment. Outgoing I don’t think we’ll miss Fekitoa. Gopperth was fantastic but had come to the end of his road. Toomaga-Allen good personality for the group but not a great prop. Then we’ve lost Scholtz, Watson, Miller, Gaskell, Young, Fifita, Anderson and Le Bourgeois. Young was quality but with respect, intentional or not, the others make it possible to promote youngsters. I think incoming Koch, Ryan, Odendaal and McDonald are better than what we lost. Haydon-Wood could be a wildcard and Martinez will be like a new signing. If somehow Minozzi and Mills can stay fit they will be too. Agree totally that our back play was atrocious last year. It may be we win via slightly different means (forwards) than a lot of Wasps fans would like. But I’d be amazed if in the linear measure of points gained we’re not better off next year.

[Peej]

I think Oghre will start at 2, and then it's an interesting call between Cruse and Frosty. 9 times out of 10 I'd start Tom over Alfie, but Lee doesn't seem to agree.

I think Burger will start at 12, but it's not certain. Big questions at 10 and 15. I could see both Charlie and Will playing, but that does leave us open to losing one of them to injury.

[baldpaul101]

I can't see the point of dismissing the season before its started because Wasps didn't sign anyone deemed sufficiently good.
I bet not many Tigers fans were looking forward to last season with a side that had barely escaped relegation & hadn't made any galactico signings, but look what happened?

I'm more interested in what the coaches are going to do differently to enable the players Wasps do have to perform to the level that we know they can.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I think Oghre will start at 2, and then it's an interesting call between Cruse and Frosty. 9 times out of 10 I'd start Tom over Alfie, but Lee doesn't seem to agree.

I think Burger will start at 12, but it's not certain. Big questions at 10 and 15. I could see both Charlie and Will playing, but that does leave us open to losing one of them to injury.

I'm going to be a heretic. I don't think Alfie is our 2nd best 8, that's Brad.

At the moment Alfie appears to be a solution looking for a problem as he doesn't seem to have a natural best position. Wherever he goes it appears to unbalance the side and I think some (a very small part) of last seasons problems were around trying to get him in to the game and pander to Eddie.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and will go on to big things, I just think he and the coaches need to get together, decide where he naturally fits in best and work on that and not necessarily mad Eddie's theories about playing players out of position.

[Shugs]

I’d argue technically Carr is a better 8. But Barbeary has X factor. Fact is we’ll need them all.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Good point, Shugs. How could I forget Nemo?

Hopefully he’ll get more game time this season.

[westwaleswasp]

Not many mentioning our new 10.
For me the forwards take care of themselves. I mean, if anything, too much choice outside of 6n/AI, and if Eddie proves to be his normal self- we could still have a full compliment to choose from.
The backs- will we play off 9 or 10?
Will we look for a second five eighths as a ball playing  receiver as they say down under? Or is it bosh through 12, try to bring 15 into the line? What do we even want from 15?
Where is Odogwu going ot play and frankly what happened last year when Lee actively avoided our only point of difference back when Dobby was misfiring. More questions than answers and who starts at 10 with Jacob out, and when fit where are we looking to play Jacob?