Cricket”s warning to rugby and the over reliance on internationals

[Bloke in North Dorset]

My native Yorkshire have just been relegated and I’ve just read  a couple of very thought provoking Tweets that the RU authorities should bear in mind:

Let me get this straight, divisions were invented to strenghten the test team, Yorks provide the backbone of the england team and get relegated not being able to play them.

https://twitter.com/karlovichmac/status/1575514809147461632?s=21&t=LqIO5rEs-FpEi1HfMntkZQ

And from Sir Geoffrey’s Telegraph article:

'The County Championship effectively favours clubs who do not produce any England internationals or many quality players who go to play the Hundred. What a farce!'

https://twitter.com/telecricket/status/1575537537296351233?s=21&t=LqIO5rEs-FpEi1HfMntkZQ

I happen to think there’s a bit more to it in this case, life is never as simple as a couple of Tweets, but they do highlight a major problem of the route the RU authorities are in danger of going down with the continual focus on England over club rugby.

[Shugs]

Completely agree bind. In terms of cricket the game is farcical now. Each to their own but if you want to watch county cricket now it’s shoehorned into April & September essentially killing it. I can’t get enthused about the hit and giggle stuff. What next, the six??
Translating it to rugby this is why we must never have central contracts. We need to swing back the opposite way and find a way of getting internationals with their club teams more. Less get togethers and friendlies etc.

[wasps]

If the clubs fight too hard against the RFU, do they run the risk of the RFU reversing their policy of only picking players that play in England?


That was always what the clubs wanted to protect.


With the reduced salary cap over here, would the best players try moving to France if they would still get picked for England?

[Heathen]

"Let me get this straight, divisions were invented to strenghten the test team, Yorks provide the backbone of the england team and get relegated not being able to play them."

I would contest that view. Surrey won the County Championship despite being stripped of an number of key players at various times this season : Ollie Pope, Ben Foakes, Tom and Sam Curran, Reece Topley, Rory Burns, Jamie Overton, Will Jacks, Chris Jordan,

[Trevs Big Tackle]

Wait, is Geoffrey Boycott complaining about something? The situation must be serious.

[westwaleswasp]

Yorkshire are moaning but at full strength they are not as good as Surrey who have provided many players as noted, nor Lancs, who rarely get to play Jimmy, and probably only on a par with Hampshire and Essex, both of  whom have much better bowling attacks, the latter having a very decent spin attack and ideal early late season early 80 mph  seamers that you need. Yorkshire have lots of decent batsmen, but with so much red ball cricket in April, May and September, they need to develop a more balanced attack. It does not help when off field distractions happen, as is the case with Yorkshire.
I do not see the same issues with rugby, if cricket has issues it is with season structure and bullshit like the hundred, relegating international formats like 50 overs down to the status of development events. Rugby sees its top players a little less than ideal, but it is nothing like cricket.

[backdoc]

When I asked the question of the ECB medical staff 10 years ago, the County players were earning £100k, and the England players £500k.

[mike909]

I do not see the same issues with rugby, if cricket has issues it is with season structure and bullshit like the hundred, relegating international formats like 50 overs down to the status of development events. Rugby sees its top players a little less than ideal, but it is nothing like cricket.

This. Cricket really has got problems which were not compulsory. The 100 really is BS and for all the "it brings in new young fans" they had a format that could easily have done the same in T20. A game that most amateurs have played (evening or cup cricket) and fits with the IPL etc world wide. 50 overs is World Cup format and yet it's fairly anon here. And is a great day out game.

Rugby needs to learn - but it's not like cricket!

[Shugs]

Completely agree. Once they introduced The Hundred that was it for me. It quite literally isn’t cricket.

[mike909]

Completely agree. Once they introduced The Hundred that was it for me. It quite literally isn’t cricket.

I tried as I'd play anywhere, beach, park, back garden wherever and I've probably played hundreds of T20 games and something like three decades of league cricket base on 90/100 over games and the like. But the 5 ball overs, franchises and 70's piss take graphics and it's a big no.

My wife was no great fan of any sort loves the T20 and especially 50 over finals day as it's understandable, competitive entertainment.  She'd not watched the game before we met 15 years ago and probably is who they are (in part) aiming at for the 100. She thinks it bizarre and pointless. Asking "who are the teams?" "Why are they not based on the County teams?" (or an offshoot) And it's in prime time (of the season)

Rugby needs more people through the door, there are many strategies to do this and they will include getting the best players on the field more often as Lol noted. Internationals are events rather than games more and more. I know the skill levels are better than the 70's, but I could identify with London Division (my parents lived in West London in the 70's) and the players who went on the internationals. But the life blood of the game now ought to be the clubs and players. And I want to see us put 60 past Sarries (ha!) more than I care about England. I like the Scotland attitude more than England's and rather liked them winning the last two to show up the way international "fans" are taken for granted.....And could easily leave?

So - I agree with the risk re overreliance on internationals - it distorts support and the game and damaged clubs. (And players) And we need to get a sustainable game here and gimmicks are not the way.

Friday rant over (for now)

[Shugs]

Agree with all of that Mike. I wonder in terms of the “day out” feel whether there is anything in the dual event scenario. For example the centre piece would be the prem rugby game. But could Wasps women play before (don’t think after works). Could some local games have their equivalent of a Big Game at the CBS? Just getting more people on site for longer brings in revenue and possible future affiliation/interest. I know it’s been done with a Wasps women game before but I think that was after the mens version.

[mike909]

That's very kind. I do think a double header has legs - and before works too. Ditto, a local club. My local club plays teams such as Cheltenham or Stroud or some of the Bristol clubs and they'd love getting a game at Ashton Gate. Such games would be worth seeing and even better as a starter game. Hadn't really thought of that and worth looking at in the wider Coventry area.

[Andywasp50]

Totally agree with the sentiments of this post. Apparently Root was playing golf in Scotland as his team went down, which is scandalous. As a Surrey fan, England call ups have hampered the side for years now to the extent that they have developed a quality academy who step up and perform alongside a couple of astute overseas signings. The real reason they won was having Burns as captain all season and Gareth Batty turning out to be an excellent coach in place of the utterly useless Solanki. Hampshire were going well with no England call ups but fell apart in the last two rounds. The ECB need to develop a county championship where the best play against the the best like Australia.

Not only has the ECB sold the soul of cricket for the cheap trick of a showpiece ‘hundred’ competition which is awful, but it sold out the domestic 50 over game just as we became world champions and had the perfect springboard to increase interest. This seasons 50 over competition was played alongside the internationals and hundred, so a number of counties put out development sides because they had no players left. So much for defending the world title next time round.

The only solution is to dump the Hundred or build grounds with roofs to play all year!

[Heathen]

Totally agree with the sentiments of this post. Apparently Root was playing golf in Scotland as his team went down, which is scandalous. As a Surrey fan, England call ups have hampered the side for years now to the extent that they have developed a quality academy who step up and perform alongside a couple of astute overseas signings. The real reason they won was having Burns as captain all season and Gareth Batty turning out to be an excellent coach in place of the utterly useless Solanki. Hampshire were going well with no England call ups but fell apart in the last two rounds. The ECB need to develop a county championship where the best play against the the best like Australia.

Not only has the ECB sold the soul of cricket for the cheap trick of a showpiece ‘hundred’ competition which is awful, but it sold out the domestic 50 over game just as we became world champions and had the perfect springboard to increase interest. This seasons 50 over competition was played alongside the internationals and hundred, so a number of counties put out development sides because they had no players left. So much for defending the world title next time round.

The only solution is to dump the Hundred or build grounds with roofs to play all year!

Andy, I totally agre with your sentiments, especially about Surrey. I was delighted to see them win the Championship with one round to go.

[westwaleswasp]

Every year it is not about call ups. By and large the  tests don't clash with the red ball game much anyway. Would a Johhny or Joe do much on April or September wickets where many matches finish in 5 or 6 sessions? Not as much of an effect as having an Anderson.

Name me one great bowler in the Yorkshire team since Gough dazzled us, or Sidebottom ran in. It is the classic 'if we had Johnny and Joe we would win the championship', but truth be told this is part historical arrogance from the super successful team that has 30 odd titles but only 3 in fifty years. Great batting line ups don't win championships.

With name the exception of last year, top teams that win it have a great attack. Sometimes teams get away with it, and build momentum, sometimes they lose it,  but if you look at Yorkshires' recent titles they had a balanced attack, even if they lacked the star performers that most teams have.
I would take their 2015 attack over today's 100 pc of the time. Last year was similar, but they are exceptions to the rule.

 Even those like Somerset that perenially miss out have a great attack. It is that simple. It helps if the wicket does a bit too, and the Oval this year has not been as docile as it can be.

Teams also chose on which front to fight to an extent and Yorkshire have a squad angled more at one day competition.