Ex Wasps signing for new clubs

[Bloke in North Dorset]

This tweet shows Sam Spink's progress at Western Force and like Jack why players should be allowed to travel to develop.

https://twitter.com/westernforce/status/1654273248949858309?t=FK5mhUZmkAYI073mAKHRGg&s=19

I doubt anyone disagrees that players will improve by playing home or abroad, and that playing in different leagues with different styles rounds their game.


While it's the RFU that enforces the rule about not playing for England if you play abroad, it's always been the clubs that have pushed it.
I doubt the RFU cares where the players play, but the clubs don't want to see their assets leave and they have the RFU over a barrel

It?s almost restraint of trade. In any other walk of life these sorts of rules by employers, and the RFU is also an employer, to keep wages down would attract opprobrium if not the attention of the competition authorities.

[FishingWasp]

I agree. I've long said that the scenario of denying players opportunities based on where they currently play needs testing under employment law. A clever barrister (and most of them are) could make a good argument of indirect discrimination.

[wasps]

I'm no lawyer, but I would expect that being invited to play for England has no legal protection

[will311293]

Was doing some googling this morning (mid early morning, early wake up due to hangover!) and was having a think about what Wasps as a new entity could look at in terms of pulling a team together quickly.

I started to review the players currently on the market/leaving prem teams as we speak. Considering that we are most likely going to spend mid/top end of champ and Ealing averaged ?1.3m per year on squad with a top end players earning ?75k.

So I will make an assumption that we will spend somewhere around 850-900K ish? Assuming we have no large sponsor and assuming we have a 30 man squad (plus some loan players) doesn't give a huge wiggle room on who we can sign etc and would mean a 30k average per player.

So looking through who has been released, my assumption is our squad will be built of mainly youngsters and loanees, with a few older heads.

Players i'd be interested in include:
Darren Atkins, Max Green, Tom Doughty, Gabriel Hammer-Webb, Will Spencer, Frankie Read, Jordan Venter (Bath)
Sam Lewis, Henry Purdy, John Hawkins, Sam Jefferies, Peter Carter, Jac Lloyd, Tom Wilstead, Aaron Thompson (Bristol)
Jack Maunder (Exeter)
Rhys Litterick, Conor Oresanya (Quins)
Riley Williams, Horsea Saumaki, Kini Murimurivalu, Chester Owen, George Loose (Leicester)
Charlie Smith, James Blackett, Chidera Obanna, Ewan Greenlaw, Jeremy Civil (Newcastle)
Frankie Sleightholme, Archie Kean, Ethan Grayson, Josh Weru, Joseph Gaffan, Callum Burns (Saints)
Ben Carlisle, Sam Hill, Elliot Gourlay, Kieran Wilkinson (Sale)
Louie Kirkham, Oran Murphy, Oliver Stirling, Isaac Miller, Hugo O'Sullivan, Isaac Curtis-Harris (Irish)

Then i was also considering that 3 out 4 welsh regions have announced up to 50 players leaving already. List attached here: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-list-almost-50-players-26807120

The likes of Ben Fry or James Ratti would make interesting options.

Realistically we will rely on loan players until finances are resolved, however with the quality of training facilities we have, i'd hope clubs would like the idea of their players coming to play for us. Especially the players who haven't quite broken through yet like Ma'asi White/Opoku-Fordjour (Sale), Alfie Bell (Exeter), Will Glister (Saints) and a few more.

Obviously we won't get all and will have to be select due to finances but at least there's a good start to go off. Hopefully we may get a few from other teams that might be interested too but will be interesting to see how we get on.

[Robson9]

Suspect quite a few of the signings will also be from championship or national one clubs.

Most players in the league are on shorter term deals, and there's normally plenty of movement between clubs at the end of the year - though that depends on how late wasps decide to leave it.

One of the things wasps will need is a bit of 'dog', your experienced championship players who have never quite made it to premiership level but have the required experience in the league. Some will be semi pro or amateur so won't break the bank.

[JonnyD]

Was doing some googling this morning (mid early morning, early wake up due to hangover!) and was having a think about what Wasps as a new entity could look at in terms of pulling a team together quickly.

I started to review the players currently on the market/leaving prem teams as we speak. Considering that we are most likely going to spend mid/top end of champ and Ealing averaged ?1.3m per year on squad with a top end players earning ?75k.

So I will make an assumption that we will spend somewhere around 850-900K ish? Assuming we have no large sponsor and assuming we have a 30 man squad (plus some loan players) doesn't give a huge wiggle room on who we can sign etc and would mean a 30k average per player.

So looking through who has been released, my assumption is our squad will be built of mainly youngsters and loanees, with a few older heads.

Players i'd be interested in include:
Darren Atkins, Max Green, Tom Doughty, Gabriel Hammer-Webb, Will Spencer, Frankie Read, Jordan Venter (Bath)
Sam Lewis, Henry Purdy, John Hawkins, Sam Jefferies, Peter Carter, Jac Lloyd, Tom Wilstead, Aaron Thompson (Bristol)
Jack Maunder (Exeter)
Rhys Litterick, Conor Oresanya (Quins)
Riley Williams, Horsea Saumaki, Kini Murimurivalu, Chester Owen, George Loose (Leicester)
Charlie Smith, James Blackett, Chidera Obanna, Ewan Greenlaw, Jeremy Civil (Newcastle)
Frankie Sleightholme, Archie Kean, Ethan Grayson, Josh Weru, Joseph Gaffan, Callum Burns (Saints)
Ben Carlisle, Sam Hill, Elliot Gourlay, Kieran Wilkinson (Sale)
Louie Kirkham, Oran Murphy, Oliver Stirling, Isaac Miller, Hugo O'Sullivan, Isaac Curtis-Harris (Irish)

Then i was also considering that 3 out 4 welsh regions have announced up to 50 players leaving already. List attached here: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-list-almost-50-players-26807120

The likes of Ben Fry or James Ratti would make interesting options.

Realistically we will rely on loan players until finances are resolved, however with the quality of training facilities we have, i'd hope clubs would like the idea of their players coming to play for us. Especially the players who haven't quite broken through yet like Ma'asi White/Opoku-Fordjour (Sale), Alfie Bell (Exeter), Will Glister (Saints) and a few more.

Obviously we won't get all and will have to be select due to finances but at least there's a good start to go off. Hopefully we may get a few from other teams that might be interested too but will be interesting to see how we get on.

A frightening amount of players, who have come through the ranks at their clubs and cannot now be retained due to the requirement for smaller squads or reducing the wage bill.
We have lost two clubs this season but easily another clubs worth of premiership quality players have been released so far.

Makes me wonder whether pursuing a career as a professional rugby player now is such a desirable goal for an 18 year old coming through.

[FishingWasp]

I'm no lawyer, but I would expect that being invited to play for England has no legal protection

But if it is legally employment, and certainly it passes some of the tests, then the protected areas of discrimination, including indirect discrimination apply. Having studied some aspects of employment and commercial law, I have seen many surprising rulings including when attending tribunals on behalf of employers. Would love this area to be tested in law. No

[wasps]

I'm no lawyer, but I would expect that being invited to play for England has no legal protection

But if it is legally employment, and certainly it passes some of the tests, then the protected areas of discrimination, including indirect discrimination apply. Having studied some aspects of employment and commercial law, I have seen many surprising rulings including when attending tribunals on behalf of employers. Would love this area to be tested in law. No

If things really went that far, I suspect we'd find that it's illegal to only allow players of a certain nationality to play for a national team

[Robson9]

I'd have thought it would be a pretty easy one to get around even if a court found in favour of the players, considering selection for England is entirely subjective and down to the head coach. They could still just unofficially select only players playing in England (where the majority play) and who can prove otherwise that's not the 'best selection' considering its down to the head coach and 95% of rugby fans would disagree with who he selects regardless

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Tthat puts a lot of pressure on the coach. If the is changed we could expect more top players to head to France but if the rule quietly applied the coach will be coming under a lot of pressure at press conferences every time a team is announced and the howls will be heard down here when England lose.

I suspect that the UK courts will stay out of it but if we'd still been in the single market the EU competition authorities might have stepped in for players going to France like they did with the Bosman ruling.

[baldpaul101]

Jacob has posted on his Social Media "new club - tick, new Country - Tick, History made - Tick - Grazie Benetton rugby"

Wonder if that means he won't be there next season?

[Marlovian]

Abby Dow signs for Ealing

[JonnyD]

Quiet this evening from Kibirige as the Force beat the Drua, Spink very good though.
Commentary said that Spink is signed up next year for the force too. They?ve signed Nic White for next year too so could still be worth a watch then.

As mentioned above, Kibirige was rumoured to be off to Sarries next year but a Sarries mate of mine hasn?t heard those rumours.

Cardall on the bench for the Rebels again this weekend

[baldpaul101]

Kibirige was rumoured to be off to Sarries next year

Rumours of a deal being struct for Sarries to sign Anthony Watson so, if true, can't see them needing Kibirige....

[Rifleman Harris]

Kibirige was rumoured to be off to Sarries next year

Rumours of a deal being struct for Sarries to sign Anthony Watson so, if true, can't see them needing Kibirige....

Surely they can fit both into their version of salary cap? SO why not?