England

[Andywasp50]

So much for the bluster about ‘setting Twickenham alight’ for the fans. But that’s what it’s all about now - a set up that is so full of deluded bullshit there’s no humility or awareness of the institutionalised crassness that pervades the whole show.

Hill was an embarrassment to the profession today - completely useless in the lineout, scrum and maul and serving up some numbskull petulance via a couple of brainless cheap shots. JVP was slow to the breakdown all game, whilst Farrell and Tuilagi make for a midfield of the lowest skill set possible. Even Smith started the game kicking from hand rather than passing, and the crowd were booing Farrell for kicking the ball repeatedly in the second half.

This rabble are now so poor there’s no shape, style of play, ability to build phases and recycle or cohesion. They have completely lost their way and EJ has gone through so many coaches because he’s an overbearing bully you have to feel sorry for the players.

All this talk of building something is a desperate attempt to cover up the fact EJ and his chums are out of ideas and are going nowhere (if he knew what direction nowhere was). I don’t expect Sweeney and Co to do anything though because as we know they are asleep at the wheel and just taking money under false pretences.

[JonnyD]

This was an under strength SA as well. Jones’ legacy to the team seems to be a non earned arrogance and little else.

This is it for me.

Eddie starts this, thinking we can put muscle SA, the front row selection was an error, thinking we needed another lineout jumper (which is fine) but that shouldn’t have been Coles, playing Freeman as defensive option against kicks but then hauling him off, midfield selection again means that when we can’t outmuscle then we then can’t turn on the attacking style either.

It was the whooping and hollering that still gets me. It starts in the Premiership with the arrogance of Sarries and has snuck to England.

Curry celebrating a penalty like he’d won the World Cup when there was 9 mins left and we were 21 points down was embarrassing.
An absolute misplaced arrogance.

Thought the likes of Faf and Etzebeth could really have rubbed our faces in it but were actually quite restrained.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

One incident in the first half summed it up for me.

JVP got lucky when an aimless kick got a lucky bounce and put WLR under pressure on his 5m line. He started to run the ball out but realised England's chasers were on him so he kicked through but it was a poor kick and England got the ball on SAs 22m on England's left wing.

SA's defence was stretched and England had numbers on the right. They started to move the ball cross field but when it got to Billy he just crashed in to SA's defence and the attack petered out.

Rugby by numbers.

[Heathen]

Again SA demonstrated that physicality with a fair sprinkling of nous and skill, that they will take this England to cleaners every day of the week. Heads up rugby.

[Trevs Big Tackle]

Why did Smith get subbed off when SA went down to 14 men? I'd have thought that's when you'd want your best 10 to start stretching the oppositions defence.

[Rossm]

Great tweet from mattbrown_10 (Wasps fan):

I’ve got no club
My country are fucking awful
What a time to be a rugby fan

You couldn't have summed it up better, matt.

[Laterontoday]

Why did Smith get subbed off when SA went down to 14 men? I'd have thought that's when you'd want your best 10 to start stretching the oppositions defence.

Fairly sure he picked an ankle knock

[Trevs Big Tackle]

Why did Smith get subbed off when SA went down to 14 men? I'd have thought that's when you'd want your best 10 to start stretching the oppositions defence.

Fairly sure he picked an ankle knock

Thanks.

[Shugs]

The narrative after every loss from Jones now is “blame me”. I have no problem doing that but maybe it’s time his employers listened to him.

[Neils]

The narrative after every loss from Jones now is “blame me”. I have no problem doing that but maybe it’s time his employers listened to him.

The problem is his bloody employers.

[WonkyWasp]

The one saving grace is that no Wasps (ex- or otherwise) were involved in that debacle.

[mike909]

The narrative after every loss from Jones now is “blame me”. I have no problem doing that but maybe it’s time his employers listened to him.

Given that I blame Jones for the last two 6Ns - equal worst performances in 6Ns (equal to 2018...) and basically being out thought too often such that it seems if you get on England's case, you probably have them (c.f. 6Ns vs Wales in 2021....just terrible in the top two inches) and given that I also blame him for losing to Argentina and to a SA side lacking key players, perhaps as you say - it's time to have a parting of the ways.

The Rugby Paper this morning is basically naming successors (nothing surprising) But as SCW noted - selection is key as not only do you try and get your best players on the pitch, you hope to empower them to take good decisions

And yet - we've got an anonymous back three, a centre partnership that's worked occasionally and not recently and we seem to have swapped scrummagers for supposedly better players ball in hand...and a SR for a flanker...

It seems that there are those in favour and it doesn't appear linked to form or recent delivery. And how we can think of going into a game with an aging May - no longer first choice at Glaws and Nowell when there are players going well like Malins and Watson (playing for Tigers at FB today - nice option for them!) and even Daly - who seems transformed back at centre and Radwan and others with actual pace. Like the SA winger had.

Sometimes you get to the point when the management of any team/group can go no further. Group think, over familiarity, lack of challenge can all hinder progress - and all of those seem to be impacting a team where it's thought that Manu, BV and OF and Nowell are playing well enough to play international rugby....

Nothing is likely to change. France and Ireland especially, must be looking forwards to meeting England in the 6Ns and the others must fancy their chances....

[Shugs]

Not on here but I’ve seen a few comms stating he’s picking the best players “who else is there”. My starting fifteen would be
Marler
McGuigan
Sinckler
Itoje
Ribbans
Willis
Earl
Dombrandt
Mitchell
Smith
Lawrence
Slade
Radwan
Watson
Malins
Bench:
Genge
Cowan-Dickie
Rodd
Clarke (assuming no Lawes)
Ewers
Spencer
Ford
Daly

[Skippy]

As good a Shug’s XV looks, it’ll all fall to shit if they’re coached by Jones.

The Ahh Eff You need to pull their fingers out, otherwise we’re going to lose out to Wales in getting Gats on board for the second time.

If Wales do make the sensible choice, we’ve got to be on for the wooden spoon this 6N. Italy will certainly be fancying their chances to put in another “f*cking amazing” performance.

[mike909]

Shugs - Not fair off what I'd select. I'd prob hope Nick I was fit and George M was in form too and I'd like Tom W at 8 in front of Dombrandt, but as noted above....it rather depends on who's coaching!