Which Way Are Tigers Sailing in the Creek ?

[Rossm]

Though I have no interest in Tigers (and never have) this makes intriguing reading. I think it points to pro rugby in England teetering on the brink. Reminds me of the passage in Ernest Hemingway?s novel The Sun Also Rises in which a character named Mike is asked how he went bankrupt. ?Two ways,? he answers. ?Gradually, then suddenly.?

https://aviewfromle2.wixsite.com/website/post/leicester-tigers-finances-what-is-going-on

[Neils]

Remember this is a club found guilty of cheating the salary cap for five successive seasons recently. Knowingly (allegedly) doing so and keeping the expenditure a fraction below the level that would have seen them hit with the heavy sanctions supposedly levied on the EAs. Not many clubs I would welcome sailing up the Swanny but they fall into my select group of two.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

As with many clubs, the ownership of the ground and the trading are two separate entities. One (or both) of those two owns the ground. They have, in the past, stated that they wanted to sell the club, but keep the ground. No surprise there.

Three institutional loans are mentioned (plus the total of loans by the owners):

?4m HSBC bank overdraft, their ?7.1m HSBC bank loan, a DCMS loan of ?6.9m

My guess is that the DCMS loan will have been secured on the ground. The owners will have wanted that gone, and so I expect a lot of the 'investment' will be to convert the DCMS loan into an extension of the loan by the owners, releasing the charge on the ground. I wonder if the HSBC monies are also secured on the ground? The bank loan may well be. So, they would want that paid off also.

[Neils]

Also he doesn't mention unpaid income tax - I recall the HMRC saying (at Wasps demise) that all clubs owed back tax. Strange that they only asked Wasps for immediate repayment.

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

Though I have no interest in Tigers (and never have) this makes intriguing reading. I think it points to pro rugby in England teetering on the brink. Reminds me of the passage in Ernest Hemingway?s novel The Sun Also Rises in which a character named Mike is asked how he went bankrupt. ?Two ways,? he answers. ?Gradually, then suddenly.?

https://aviewfromle2.wixsite.com/website/post/leicester-tigers-finances-what-is-going-on

+1 for the Papa quote

I think the impact of Wasps and Worcester disappearing from the schedule will have massively affected cashflow at a bunch of otherwise stable-ish clubs. Some clubs went weeks without a home game due to matches with us, coupled with the fallow week, falling in line. I think Leics were one of those. I know some arranged BaaBaas games to tide them over, but it will have been a sticking plaster.

The state of the pro game is on a knife edge.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I know this is slightly different because Leicester had planned for the income:

The cancellation of home fixtures caused by the administrations of Worcester & Wasps has contributed to fewer home games at this point of the season than normal, meaning considerably less income and less cash in the bank.

But does anyone really think an 8 team league is financially viable?

[baldpaul101]

Given the RFU's (belated) interest in club finances, I wonder if any such rescue mission would need approval from Twickenham?

[NellyWellyWaspy]

... does anyone really think an 8 team league is financially viable?

No, it isn't, and neither is 10.

[Wombles]

I don't think that rugby is viable in its current form. I stated at the time that I think more teams in the prem will enter administration or go after what happened to us and Worcester. All
clubs are in trouble, and if any of Bristol, Saracens or Baths owners left they would likely fold overnight.

For rugby to survive it finally has to admit that it is a minority sport away from the test arena. It is not going to go the way of football. It will mean less wages, but I also do not buy this argument that rugby players need exorbitant wages as their careers are short. The aim should not be to have players ready to retire from all forms of work in their 20-30s and renumerate them as such. It should be to give them a decent wage, but also prepare them for what will be a longer working career outside of playing. I found the anonymous Welsh player this week complaining of their ?280,000 per annum not being enough exceptionally poor and a sign they are not living a reality that they need to.

A well structured 2 divisions with 12 team with promotion and relegation, with a solid pyramid below down to grass roots is needed. We need to stop chasing unworkable financial horizons, and we need to ensure that a democracy is held between the clubs, the league and the RFU. We cannot let owners of teams like Saracens and Bath push the rules and hide their misdeeds, as they are one of the reasons we are where we are.

We're a modest sport, lets start behaving like it for the good of the game.

[Rossm]

I know this is slightly different because Leicester had planned for the income:

The cancellation of home fixtures caused by the administrations of Worcester & Wasps has contributed to fewer home games at this point of the season than normal, meaning considerably less income and less cash in the bank.

But does anyone really think an 8 team league is financially viable?

In a word, NO. And I don't think a 10 team league would have much more of a chance.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

+1 to what Wombles says.

[Rossm]

I find it noticeable that 2 clubs, both of which I thought were (relatively speaking) financially sound, Exe and Tiggs, have had to raise additional funds. God knows what most of the other clubs' bank statements look like - Swiss cheese? Will they all make it to the end of the season?

[Neils]

I find it noticeable that 2 clubs, both of which I thought were (relatively speaking) financially sound, Exe and Tiggs, have had to raise additional funds. God knows what most of the other clubs' bank statements look like - Swiss cheese? Will they all make it to the end of the season?

Kind of hoping not.

[jamestaylor002]

I find it noticeable that 2 clubs, both of which I thought were (relatively speaking) financially sound, Exe and Tiggs, have had to raise additional funds. God knows what most of the other clubs' bank statements look like - Swiss cheese? Will they all make it to the end of the season?

I imagine they're all looking very suspect! However, I'd guess that richer clubs like Bristol will be fine for as long as their backers are willing to stump up the cash (not saying that's the right thing but it's likely more secure than, say, a Newcastle).

[Shugs]

Reading between the lines if you take Saracens, Bath, Bristol and Northampton out of the mix ALL of the others have financial problems ranging from concerning to absolutely critical.