Jack Willis says England players joining foreign clubs could help Premiership.

[Rossm]

Report on the Beeb.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64720269

[baldpaul101]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64749350

Steve Borthwick seems to think so too...

As its plainly obvious the current restriction is not protecting the Premiership as it was intended it will be interesting how this will play out

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

Interesting to revisit on the back of the decision by the WRU to reduce the cap limit to 25 for "foreign" based players.

IMO you want your best players playing, regardless of where they ply their trade. There's a good argument to be made for players improving themselves by testing themselves in different environments and leagues, surrounded by different players. Look at Jack, playing with the likes of Jelonch, Flament (of course, another ex-Wasp), Dupont et al. Can only improve him.

Likewise Marchant, for his stint with Blues in Super Rugby. He's off to Stade Francais, isn't he now? Hask is clear he both benefited from, and enjoyed, his travels.

The RFU won't like it, the PRL will oppose it too, but it has to be on the table.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Interesting to revisit on the back of the decision by the WRU to reduce the cap limit to 25 for "foreign" based players.

IMO you want your best players playing, regardless of where they ply their trade. There's a good argument to be made for players improving themselves by testing themselves in different environments and leagues, surrounded by different players. Look at Jack, playing with the likes of Jelonch, Flament (of course, another ex-Wasp), Dupont et al. Can only improve him.

Likewise Marchant, for his stint with Blues in Super Rugby. He's off to Stade Francais, isn't he now? Hask is clear he both benefited from, and enjoyed, his travels.

The RFU won't like it, the PRL will oppose it too, but it has to be on the table.

This is a rare occasion I'd have some sympathy with PRL. If you're going to have a wage cap then you need to find other ways to keep talent in this country otherwise we're looking at the slow death that Wales is experiencing.

[baldpaul101]

I don't the RFU will actually care very much, unless PRL threaten to reduce the access the England team get to players.

Given the players who are already leaving something clearly has to change because its not protecting the Prem as it was intended to do

[jamestaylor002]

There might be some options:

1. Do you introduce a caps-based system? But the question would be where do you set it? I know Wales are now reducing their requirement to 25 caps, do Australia still have theirs at 60? Though, I do know that Australia have taken advantage of making exceptions (Giteau was one IIRC). Another question would be how would you implement it? I'm thinking about the situation Rhys Webb found himself in when he signed for Toulon(?).

2. Do you make it a financial incentive to play in the Premiership? Two things come to mind:
2a. Say, a player in the Premiership gets an additional percentage on top of their match fees. The question here, though, would be what percentage would you apply and would this be competitive (i.e. would players still be earning more playing in France earning the base rate match fee than if they were to receive the increased match fee and play in England).
2b. Do the RFU consider central contracts, or a derivative of it? Are players either fully centrally contracted to the RFU and effectively loaned out to clubs, or are they partially contracted to the RFU where players receive a salary from both their club and the RFU. Might be a messy solution though.

3. A risky option for the RFU, but do you keep things as they are but with adding more flexibility. Players moving abroad would no longer have the door slammed shut behind them but under the caveat that their selection is not guaranteed and that their club will release them (something French clubs, for example, are often against). You're not saying no to players moving overseas but you're making them aware that England selection will not be a given. As I said, it's risky, in case some of your "go-to" players decided to up sticks and move abroad.

[baldpaul101]

If you go with the caps limit, you risk the Mercer situation where a very good young player makes himself unselectable.
If you top up players prem wages you are just artificially inflating wages again, which the salary cap reduction was aimed to reduce. Plus you will have clubs arguing about who "owns" the players.
I think the third option will be the only way to go. Basically, you can move to France, but, a bit like Jack Willis this year, it may affect your England selection because you won't be released by your club for as many training days, you will have to return to you club on rest weekends & you won't get any mandatory rest periods over the season.

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

Option 2 is essentially the "Irish" method (and the England cricket method) where the core internationals are centrally contracted and their playing time managed accordingly.

Pros: settled international side, international players well rested, compensated, possibly more scope for club players to get game time?
Cons: club (province) sides rarely field all their stars, fans disenfranchised from club game, internationals are all that matter

Roughly speaking. Not something I think that would fly in the Prem, and with the desire being to get more bums on seats in the league then the star players need to be playing.

Option 3 is realistically the only option moving forwards, I think.

[Skippy]

My understanding is that that IRFU has much deeper links with provincial clubs. For example, Leinster?s registered address is Lansdowne Road, Ballsbridge. Not bad for an RFU that hated the idea of professionalism.

If that?s the case, then it is like to have a much more balanced view of the game?s best interests than the panhandlers, beggars and vagabonds that supposedly run the RFU, the WRFU or, for that matter, SRFU.

[andermt]

The issue is, what would happen in the premiership?

It's fairly obvious in Ireland that Leinster are the favoured team, with most of the Ireland squad playing their, despite the central contracts. Those centrally contracted players benefit from playing with their international teammates at their club, having centrally contracted players in England spread across, whatever number of prem teams the RFU and PRL want, doesn't have the same benefit. I can see the RFU trying to keep it to 4 clubs.

So who would be the favoured clubs in England?

I think despite the fact they got kicked down a league for cheating, Sarries would be one of them,
Leicester likely to be another down to Borthwick,
Quins obviously with all their chums across the road a third,
so who would be the 4th team,
Chiefs unlikely as despite their success they never really had a lot of internationals, plus Tony Rowe,
Bristol unlikely as well due to the non-english contingent there (despite their great training facilities)
It won't be Sale or Newcastle, can't have the northerners involved
Won't be London Irish for obvious reasons
If we assume it won't be Wasps or Worcester as they are deemed Champ teams (or lower) (Although I think Wasps would have been a good option with their training facilities)
That leaves Bath, Glaws or Saints.
All 3 are traditional strong supported English clubs, and I'd have one of them before Sarries in a heartbeat, I think it would end up being Bath as Glaws probably deemed a but too small, and Saints too close to Tigers (I think it should be Saints before sarries).

So if it does end up being Sarries, Tigers, Quins & Bath, what does that mean for the rest of the prem, do we end up with a 2 tier league?

[Marlovian]

My guess would be a premiership run along the lines of the Premier 15s. Clubs are invited to apply and must provide an assured bond of ?25/30/35m for 3/5/7 (whatever) years. Probably 8 teams so no games during international windows and no salary cap. If they get TV coverage they keep the money. In effect a franchised league.

I could begrudgingly accept this provided it was not supported by central RFU funding in any way. That should go entirely to the remaining clubs and grass roots rugby to provide a proper meritocratic pyramid. Let the sugar daddies play together and we can all ignore them.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

andermt,

Fair assessment but I think you need to factor in how good their academy facilities and systems are. If your going down the road of the national side being the raison d'?tre for rugby then allocation of talent to those 4 clubs starts at at least 18.

[baldpaul101]

If the PRL/RFU went down that route I would see the richer clubs using it as an excuse for breaking away to form that Euro league their owners have always dreamed off.

Which would kill pro rugby in England as no TV company wold stump up big cash a Prem deprived of the big names.

[Marlovian]

Yes, I think that would very likely happen.

As for killing pro rugby in England, possibly, but then what do teams outside the premiership get now from TV deals? If this went ahead money the RFU currently use to prop up the premiership could be diverted elsewhere.

[Neils]

Yes, I think that would very likely happen.

As for killing pro rugby in England, possibly, but then what do teams outside the premiership get now from TV deals? If this went ahead money the RFU currently use to prop up the premiership could be diverted elsewhere.

Can't help feeling the RFU would find some reason not to fund "the rest".