OT : Farrell past his use by date?

[Heathen]

Weakest link in the backs today and his kicking will cost England dearly, if he continues in that form.

[Wombles]

Yes.

He is committed and no one can doubt his effort. But he is limited and pragmatic. His kicking stats from the tee until recently was a strength, but that is also now on the decline. But if we want to make strides forwards we cannot have a 10 that is so limited, he is slow, ponderous on occasion, and seems to be the handbreak to the team rather than a leader guiding the team around the pitch. Wilkinson or Carter he is not, and I think the time has come to have Smith starting, and likely with Ford moving into the squad over Owen.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Fazlet was, in most respects, past it, yes. Van Poortvliet was not much better either. Cole and Vunipola was lumbering, slow.

Curry added nothing when he came on, and I was far from impressed with Lawrence. Itoje was also anonymous.

Borthwick has some cuts he needs to make, but will he?

It felt like watching the mechanically boring Cheats of old, versus a quite poor team like Falcons or Warriors.

[backdoc]

The errors made by Farrell suggest the pressure of being selected ahead of Smith has got to him.

I can't believe M Vunipola was selected and came off the bench.

There is a decent core to this team. They just need to get rid of some of the chaff.

[Andywasp50]

Farrell has often been lauded as a real 'test match animal', when in fact of late, and particularly today, he's proved a weak link. He can 'get in amongst it' and prove a nuisance, but his kicking from hand and the tee was woeful and will cost England tight games - it's not even good enough for an average Premiership 10. Opponents soon realise they can push the rules and take more liberties if they aren't being punished by pens. It's not as though the rest of his game mitigates his kicking.

Unfortunately he wasn't the worst England player on the pitch which was JVP. I have absolutely no idea why he is in the set up (outside the obvious fact he plays for Leicester). His aimless and useless box kicking, slow thought at the breakdown and slow pass are a real issue. A good side will take him to the cleaners at the breakdown. At one point in the first half he was 15 feet away with his back turned whilst the ball was available on the floor at the breakdown and the back row were fighting to stop the Welsh forwards from turning it over.

That was the worst Wales side I've seen for years and England started brightly and looked good for the first 25 minutes, but the baggage the unimaginative Borthwick brings to the set up via his favourites from Tigers and the Cheats will hold them back and keep the shackles on during his tenure.

I still maintain that the damage to the English game wraught by the Cheats has left the likes of Itoje, George, Farrell, Malins lacking hunger and intensity - when the bread and butter of your profession becomes a cakewalk week in, week out, it's no surprise the edge goes and the step up to test match intensity becomes a step too far. Farrell's kicking is the perfect example.

[JonnyD]

No one is grabbing the team or the game by the scruff of the neck and saying follow me.
Genge and sinkler do this in parts but not really their job.

I watched the Ulster game earlier and seeing Vermeulen, he?s just a talisman and people follow him. No one is doing that for England and mainly because yet again nothing is coming through 9/10 either feeding the backs or putting Dombrandt et Al through holes.
JVP was ok but Farrell just wasn?t on it yesterday. Mitchell sped things up but should have come on 10 mins earlier.
Arundell, Walker and Smith being give the final play was almost insulting for them.

Whilst Steward was given a lot of plaudits and did nothing wrong all game - just imagine if that was Ben Smith or Israel Dagg a few years ago, WLR or KB in their prime - the amount of ball he was given, cheap metres he was allowed but he doesn?t create enough in attack with breaks or creativity for the electric wingers - this is a problem when your 10 isn?t creating either.

Just saw Farrell?s kicking stats for the tournament are at 44% and if he isn?t kicking either he?s got to go - accompany that with a charge down, a poor cross field kick into touch, pointless kicks through when we were building pressure.

Farrell at 10 and Malins/Watson at 15 or
Smith at 10 and Steward at 15 for me

[westwaleswasp]

See my comments on DW. Total shit. Borthwick is not the man for the job if he cannot see that Farrell's best position is in Barnet watching on TV.
Got to add, Gatland is similarly out of touch and past his best. His last Lions tour was abysmal, because he set out not to play. He made Wales very hard to beat, unless you were NZ, but never quite got their attack going beyond the Roberts crash ball, and as time goes on we have seen even conservative teams like the Boks look to play.
Both Wales and England desperately need an all court game. I don't see their coaches providing it.

[mike909]

Rarely convinced by either Slade or Faz today, who had one of those days. And kicked badly, so why is he there? It was presumably the strategy, but we too often seemed one dimensional in possession. And only when Watson scored did we look like we were playing heads up. Decisions ought to lie haead if Ford proves fitness and form. Slade wasn't prominent - to often flattering to deceive. The back three did what you'd expect, with Watson showing glimpses of his class. He will improve with game time. Not convinced Steward offers enough. And whilst numbers on shirts are just that, I'm not convinced by Lawrence and Slade. I'd like to see more of Ollie in those wider channels that first got him noticed by selectors. Especially given the quality of the wingers available.

Concerns arise when I think about facing France and Ireland. The pack is a work in progress, and ought to improve. Probably best not to mess with the starters. Questions remain about the midfield and half backs. I like both centres as individuals - not convinced as a pair. and not convinced yet by our ability to play what's in front of us, and we really need to be convincing if we're to concern France or Ireland. Half backs are like a drag on England being a threat off own ball.

Farrell - elsewhere, lots of fans suggest he's offering this and that and was distributing well etc. When his key moment in the game was as a jackal. Hope Ford gets fit.

[Westy68]

Farrell really poor and slade. JVP has got the be the slowest 9 ever, who has the poorest box kick, not a good combo.

I can see Ford getting into the mix soon, real problems at 9 and 13. Why bring on subs on the 80th minute

[St Bruno]

Westy,
JVP has been learning his trade under Ben Youngs, so no wonder he's so slow.

[Shugs]

I think there were positives and negatives. Negatives for me were Farrell, Slade and everyone else trying endless grubbers rather than going wide. Farrell?s kicking. Itoje?s complacent anonymity. A real lack of attacking fluency. Positives. The aggression in the back row of Ludlam and Willis (see Mike909 point on complacency). Dombrandt starting to show some Quins form. Thought Sinckler and Genge rumbled well. Agree with what others have said about Steward. He caught well but was really just fielding aimless punts. Doesn?t show enough in attack. Our bench needs strengthening and we need to keep ball in hand more. For me we have one excellent talent at 10 - George Ford. And one understudy to him - Smith. One of those at 10 with Mitchell at 9 has to be our axis going forward. JVP is a talent but is not ready yet and I don?t really like his style. I think we?d have lost under Jones in Wales yesterday against a desperately poor Welsh team. So there?s progress, but we?re still hamstrung by quite a few legacy issues.

[coddy]

Judging by his performances Farrell shouldn't be anywhere near a starting spot for England so
the only logical explaination for Borthwick picking him is for his leadership qualities.

Is the English squad really that short of leaders? Maybe in the backs yes but not in the forwards surely?

[InBetweenWasp]

Judging by his performances Farrell shouldn't be anywhere near a starting spot for England so
the only logical explaination for Borthwick picking him is for his leadership qualities.

Is the English squad really that short of leaders? Maybe in the backs yes but not in the forwards surely?

Or he's giving him time, like he did with a number of the Leicester squad when he first took over. 

Whilst Farrell has been crap for the past couple of games (at 10), the bulk of pundits and fans would have said that it's time to give Farrell or Smith the reigns at 10 and that on Premiership form, Farrell has probably earnt the right with some of his performances for Saracens vs Smith's relatively quiet start to the season (compared to the last two).

I doubt Borthwick will give Smith the reigns against France or Ireland, so suspect we've got a bit more of the same to come although I think that if Farrell is having another below-par game we'll see Smith introduced closer to 50 mins.  What i'd really like to see is Mitchell and Smith brought on at the same time to really up the pace of any game.

[Nigel Med]

As JonnyD mentioned, it wasn't just Saturday that Farrell's kicking was poor, 44.3% over three matches is atrocious. As is his decision making as both captain and fly half. You can claim that the two penalties he missed against Wales were difficult kicks, but he's the captain and he chose to attempt them.

Wales are indeed shocking at the moment and the gulf in quality was really evident in the first 20 minutes when England's speed of recycling, keeping the ball in hand and decent passing led to Watson's excellent try and should have led to more points on the board. A good fly half- think Wilkinson or Alex King- would have popped over two or three drop goals when we had good field position but several phases hadn't got us any closer to a try. A bunch of drop goals and nailing your kicks and we've hammered Wales by 30 points not 10.

I actually think that the Lawrence/Slade centre partnership has promise and they deserve a few more games to develop, at least they're centres playing in the centre! Agree that JVP isn't cutting it, Mitchell deserves a start. Having been highly critical of Dombrandt he has shown improvement from game to game and was good against wales. Itoje however is definitely being picked on reputation not form, time to give another second row a chance. Dropping Itoje to the bench might be the incentive for him to raise his game or it will show us if he's passed his best and needs to be out of the squad.

Wales didn't get close to getting over the line other than a gifted interception, fair play to Bothwick and of course Kevin Sinfield for a dramatic improvement defensively.

France are looking a little venerable as Scotland showed at times yesterday so I think we've got a chance as we've got them at Twickenham in two weeks. We're not however going to lay a finger on Ireland in Dublin in the final week, particularly as they're highly likely to be chasing a grand slam.

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

As JonnyD mentioned, it wasn't just Saturday that Farrell's kicking was poor, 44.3% over three matches is atrocious. As is his decision making as both captain and fly half. You can claim that the two penalties he missed against Wales were difficult kicks, but he's the captain and he chose to attempt them.

Wales are indeed shocking at the moment and the gulf in quality was really evident in the first 20 minutes when England's speed of recycling, keeping the ball in hand and decent passing led to Watson's excellent try and should have led to more points on the board. A good fly half- think Wilkinson or Alex King- would have popped over two or three drop goals when we had good field position but several phases hadn't got us any closer to a try. A bunch of drop goals and nailing your kicks and we've hammered Wales by 30 points not 10.

I actually think that the Lawrence/Slade centre partnership has promise and they deserve a few more games to develop, at least they're centres playing in the centre! Agree that JVP isn't cutting it, Mitchell deserves a start. Having been highly critical of Dombrandt he has shown improvement from game to game and was good against wales. Itoje however is definitely being picked on reputation not form, time to give another second row a chance. Dropping Itoje to the bench might be the incentive for him to raise his game or it will show us if he's passed his best and needs to be out of the squad.

Wales didn't get close to getting over the line other than a gifted interception, fair play to Bothwick and of course Kevin Sinfield for a dramatic improvement defensively.

France are looking a little venerable as Scotland showed at times yesterday so I think we've got a chance as we've got them at Twickenham in two weeks. We're not however going to lay a finger on Ireland in Dublin in the final week, particularly as they're highly likely to be chasing a grand slam.

Sounds precisely like something I would have written. I've lost count of the number of times I've called for teams - not just England - to make more use of the lost art of the drop goal. Take points away every time you are within the red (or even orange) zone, and keep the scoreboard ticking over. If it goes over, you get the points and they kick the ball back to you. If you miss (by enough) it goes dead and they kick the ball back to you.

Ntamack's attempt yesterday was poor - but a good option given the state of the game.

Other than that, agree with all of the above - except I wouldn't bench Itoje. The partnership between him and Chessum is looking great, and while Itoje isn't hitting the heights of his own bar, he's still better than the alternatives. Give it more time.