England

[wycombewasp]

OMG England have beaten a tier 2 nation by 1 point, It's the 2nd coming, discuss.   

[Bloke in North Dorset]

OMG plodding England have beaten a tier 2 nation by 1 point, It's the 2nd coming, discuss.

FTFY

[westwaleswasp]

England do an impression of Dick Turpin and steal a match against the mighty Samoa.
Farrell does his impression of a dick.
Farrell loses a staring contest with the ball whilst clicking his neck.
Fat Billy comes on and achieves the near impossible of looking even less threatening that the donkey he replaced.
Borthwick looks as clueless as Eddie and ignores position.
Borthwick is so thick he does not realise it is Ford or Farrell.


You can get this stuff on a bingo card you know.

[WonkyWasp]

Loved seeing Lima again, and playing so well too.  Congrats to the player who thumped Fazlet.  About time someone did!  I wish so much that Samoa had won.

[JF]

Fiji must be pooing themselves at the thought of having to take this mob on.

Comiserations to Jonny Wilkinson for having his record taken by a thug whose international career should have ended long ago.

[Heathen]

The whole structure of Rugby England is decaying at a faster rate of knots than a pig going though a bacon slicer.

Get rid of the whole hierarchy from the CEO down to the coaching structure,

Then appoint SCW as CEO and let him shake the whole rotten apple cart and build for the future.

[Shugs]

What struck me most was how the entertainment level rose each time Samoa had the ball and disappeared when England had it. There was a 10 minute period in the second half when we just reset scrum after scrum before Care went over. England are incredibly poor. They are dull into the bargain. Then throw in Farrell and Vunipola whining like children to the ref. We?ll get smashed by anyone a bit more clinical and possibly Fiji. The worst thing of all is I can?t get myself to be disappointed about it due to the way they play and behave.

[westwaleswasp]

There has never been a more overrated player than Farrell in the game's history. Name one.

Geech's ' test match animal ' comments have followed Farrell around and have been trotted out ad nauseum ,but, let us be honest, brutally honest - Geech is a lovely man who embodies much that is good in the game,  but he was a very poor selector whose off field career at international level has a lot of Ls.

Farrell is spectacularly uncreative, and if he were French would barely have made 10 caps. His last three years have been mind-blowingly appalling with ball in hand and boot. His entire club career has been playing for cheats with a spare international pack on the bench giving him an armchair ride in addition to an inflated salary. He is playing on reputation and frankly that was over inflated to begin with. Forget thuggery, forget winding up refs, the actual basics- he hasn't played well since 2020- should be enough.


I look forward to him not having a world cup winners medal, and will continue to call for Borthwick's sacking whilst he is enthralled to the myth.

[mike909]

What struck me most was how the entertainment level rose each time Samoa had the ball and disappeared when England had it. There was a 10 minute period in the second half when we just reset scrum after scrum before Care went over. England are incredibly poor. They are dull into the bargain. Then throw in Farrell and Vunipola whining like children to the ref. We?ll get smashed by anyone a bit more clinical and possibly Fiji. The worst thing of all is I can?t get myself to be disappointed about it due to the way they play and behave.

That's fair. Being dull and poor really is tedious. I really was hoping they would score at the end, after that break!

Re the Sarries players - I suppose I ought not have been surprised - but OF seemed to be seeking out every bit of niggle and trying to wind up people who really didn't care. That we picked OF and Manu at 12 and 13 and then seemed surprised that the midfield wasn't going well indicated a team/coaching set up that really isn't looking at what is going on. Or there's a central clique that can't be dropped....

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I'm conflicted.

 I want the team do well for the players, they didn't pick the team or decide game plan, they have put a lot of work in to get to this point, but also, if not more importantly, for all those who've worked to get them there. Their parents, wives and families, coaches who've worked with them through their career especially when they were children, the clubs and schools they played at when young and supported them and the myriad of people who have been involved supporting them in other ways.

On the other hand, if they do get to the semi-final or even further the RFU will be able to point to it and claim their approach is working. Not only would that be an insult to anyone who can see but also a calamity for the future of the game. We really can't go on playing this a type rugby at international level as its so obvious that we are being left behind and as others have pointed out, if that's how England play then players who want to play for England will have to learn to play that way at club level. It will be made even worse if they bring in central contracts.

On a more specific point, I've said it before but that doesn't look like a happy squad. Nobody smiling, Ford's face when he came off was a look of thunder, all those trite comments we get in the press: "Rugby World Cup 2023: Steve Borthwick says England must take 'learnings' into quarter-finals" really? Is that all you get from highly paid PR gurus?, players looking like they've never met.

I'm not as down on Borthwick as some because he got thrown in at short notice, but if we don't see root and branch reform in the 6N then maybe its time for him to go as well as the top echelons of the RFU.

[jamestaylor002]

I think the RFU will only notice if there was a visible drop in attendances at Twickenham. I don't know if we will ever really see that.

[westwaleswasp]

Fiji warm up was very down.
Can't see those sort of Nov matches selling out any time soon.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I think the RFU will only notice if there was a visible drop in attendances at Twickenham. I don't know if we will ever really see that.

The Prem final will be down. Supporters of all 13 clubs were used to buying tickets and making it a day out. You only had to look around the crowd on final day to see the variety of shirts and scarves. Losing three clubs will impact that (plus times being a lot harder).

'Lesser' international games will start to see tier 3 being closed, and big gaps elsewhere. That will start to spread to top tier games. The problem that they have is that attendance (or lack thereof) is very visible, even if the broadcasters cameras face the most populated stands, and even if the pundits and commentators do not mention it.

[Shugs]

I?m torn as to whether we actually have the players to deploy that could make a difference. Pack wise I don?t see many who I would select over what we have. Willis x 2 should be squad certainties. Ford or Smith at 10 is a must. Of course the big issue is that Farrell must be dropped. So who plays 12? Tuilagi hasn?t had a good game in years for me so it would be Daly/Lawrence at 13. It?s a criminal waste that Malins isn?t playing 15. A back three of him, Arundell and Watson when fit would get some thinking. So I think we do have options - I just can?t see us taking them.

[Mellie]

I?m torn as to whether we actually have the players to deploy that could make a difference. Pack wise I don?t see many who I would select over what we have. Willis x 2 should be squad certainties. Ford or Smith at 10 is a must. Of course the big issue is that Farrell must be dropped. So who plays 12? Tuilagi hasn?t had a good game in years for me so it would be Daly/Lawrence at 13. It?s a criminal waste that Malins isn?t playing 15. A back three of him, Arundell and Watson when fit would get some thinking. So I think we do have options - I just can?t see us taking them.

Selection isn't the problem with England,  especially in the backs. It's their style and game plan that is lacking. They generate such slow ball it is impossible to create real momentum. That's why Alex Mitchell looks so bad currently. He can't  play his trademark quick and sniping game with the ball his pack deliver. Unless England can fix that it doesn't matter who you have in the backs.