Are Italy still worthy of the 6 Nations?

[wasps]

Eddie is questioning it, or at least suggesting that the competition should be opened up to other teams in merit, and o have to say that I agree.

Many have said that England are the 3rd best team in the competition and we just put 50 points on them. That's not good for anyone.

I have my doubts that Georgia would be any better given that they'd likely only be given 1 attempt before likely being relegated themselves.
Would constant bouncing between competitions do either Georgia or Italy any good?


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/10/eddie-jones-six-nations-relegation-rugby-unionp

[Vespula Vulgaris]

It's an interesting one.

I'd like to see promotion and relegation from the tournament, but probably on a 3 year cycle. Also I'd like to see some sort of mechanism where a team must fall below a minimum standard to face relegation.

It would be complicated to run, but a lot fairer.

[AKWasp]

As controversial as the world league is, it would aid this problem. Think it’s promotion/relaxation every other year, and it’s a play off between the best 2nd tier team and worst 1st tier team

[westwaleswasp]

There is nothing much to chose between England, Wales and Ireland, but a massive gulf to the others. Scotland sometimes mug a good team at home, at the rate of one every two to three years, but away they are not winning at the big three.
Given the rate of 6n grand slams, it is time for home and away, top 3 to compete. Then on the last weekend, post title, a play off double header- Div 1 to 2, and two to the next tier down.

Thus yo-yo ing will be frequent, annual trips will not happen, but that actual Grand Slam will mean a hell of a lot, the rugby will be great.
Look at this year's 6n- Eng have to win away in Cardiff and Dublin. That is is, the home games are a conclusion- ITA have never beaten England anywhere, and France once in the 6n at HQ, Scotland never in the 6n at HQ (last win 1984). Ditto Wales only have to beat Eng/Ire in Cardiff, and avoid the banana skin in Scotland, which they do most times. Could Wales beat both Eng and Ire away? No chance. Ireland in Cardiff and London? Don't think so. England- no chance- win one away maybe, as they did this year. Grand slam- once ever ten years- far more reasonable and only done by a top, top world class team. Every game matters, no more flat ITA at home weekends, and instant revenge available after  a loss as it is home and away. One fewer 6n matches for the champions and runners up in Div 1, whilst the second tier has its first and third teams having an extra match to bring it up to the current level of five.

[Chunky24]

Only way I could see it happening is with a ring fencing for the original 5 nations and a rotation of the 6th, couldn't ever see the originals voting to potentially not play each other year in year out as financially it wouldn't make sense for them.

[Fats]

Was wondering about France too until the last 5 minutes against Ireland.

France has too many non French players which is why their clubs are so competitive.  Damaging for the national side.

[welsh wasp]

Fats: is so many foreign players also a problem for England?

[Fats]

Fats: is so many foreign players also a problem for England?

Going that way I fear.

[jamestaylor002]

Was wondering about France too until the last 5 minutes against Ireland.

France has too many non French players which is why their clubs are so competitive.  Damaging for the national side.

Possibly, as you will typically find most high profile non-French players heading to French clubs. It certainly gives them the edge in European competition. I couldn't say for certain how this impacts the national team, however, as I don't know too much about the Top 14. Something certainly isn't right with the French setup though.

Fats: is so many foreign players also a problem for England?

Yes and no.

Yes - we see a lot of SA players coming into the Premiership (seems to be Gloucester and Sale at the moment) or AB's (seems to be us) whose places may be best filled by academy players, provided there is a sufficient standard of player to fill that role.

No - I think there is still a wealth of English talent available in the Premiership. I believe that the deterrent (if that's what you can call it) of losing England selection is great enough to prevent the majority of players from leaving the league. Look at Manu Tuilagi, while he's being offered silly money to move to the Top 14, he has to seriously consider how important England selection is to him.

[wasps]

Fats: is so many foreign players also a problem for England?

My simple thought is that it's too easy to just blame the number of foreign players on any problems that England might have.

Ireland and Wales have 4 clubs for their nation's players to play in - England have 12 top league clubs.

Even if each of those Irish and Welsh clubs had 30 home nation players each, that'd total 120 players that their international teams could pick from (and I think that's a little high, but it's a good start)
For the 12 English clubs, we'd need just 10 English players in each club squad to equal the same number of players available to the national team.
I think it's fair to say that each English club could easily list 10 EQP players, and probably nearer 20 without too much trouble.


It's still not that easy, but I'd say it's clear that while we may have more foreign players in the premiership than the Pro14 clubs do, there are still more than enough English qualified players getting regular match time to negate the foreign player argument.