Doesn't Sound Promising!

[westwaleswasp]

A thought.
We have no depth at lock.
We have much in the back row. Reider, Willis x2, Young, Carr, Shields, Ashley, Valanu (apologies for spelling) incoming etc.

Shields has played quite well for us in the back row, but has already come on at second row for England.
Could Shields to second row be a regular option. Being mischievous he gets white line fever in open play as it is, so he is most of the way there...being serious, some players already swap betweem the two.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Hopefully once Edwards went cold, we started looking at others. There's likely to be a fair few on the market after the RWC, so we'll see how we go.

I'm reliably informed there are multiple others in the mix. But that it is not a quick process.

As I understand it, the deal was roughed out by Derek and agreed to. It was only when an official contract was offered Shaun started dragging his feet as he'd had other offers by then.

[welsh wasp]

Shaun Edwards: Interesting article in today's Guardian claiming that Gatland apparently told Shaun to get on with making a final decision so as not to distract Wales's preparation for the RWC. It also says that he has been offered a new 4-year contract with Wales with a 2-year break clause just like all the other new appointments, including Stephen Jones. That compares with what Rafael Ibanez, new Manager of France (who did he play for!!) who has offered him a 4-year deal.

[Raggs]

A thought.
We have no depth at lock.
We have much in the back row. Reider, Willis x2, Young, Carr, Shields, Ashley, Valanu (apologies for spelling) incoming etc.

Shields has played quite well for us in the back row, but has already come on at second row for England.
Could Shields to second row be a regular option. Being mischievous he gets white line fever in open play as it is, so he is most of the way there...being serious, some players already swap betweem the two.

Launch, Gaskell, myall, Rowlands, Matthews.

All are prem level locks for me. That's alright depth in my books.

[Heathen]

Our locks need some beasts among them.

[Beasties]

Myall's been phoning it in for two years now.

[Raggs]

Myall's been phoning it in for two years now.

Which is probably why he's now around 4th choice, maybe lower, but he can still just about do a job, and to get someone better, happy to be 4th choice, won't be easy.

[westwaleswasp]

Raggs, I will have some if what you are having, optimism is one thing but if you can't see that we are short there I don't know what to say. Our locks are prem standard, if you mean Newcastle or Worcester standard. If you mean top four, no, just no.
Launch, Gaskell is a reasonablly strong combination, and then all the others are fourth choice locks, or fifth by top four standards.
Sarries bring on Kruis and Skelton.

I said short on depth, I mean that we are just not top 2 or even 4 standard, I don't for one minute think that the list of locks is as strong as our list of back row options.
Let us be clear, if Dai finishes ninth to twelfth next year he will likely be gone, and three premiership standard teams will fill those slots with premiership quality secind rows.

[Raggs]

As soon as we start setting up property deals to circumvent the salary cap, then we'll get lock depth like Sarries.  In the meantime, Launch, Gaskell and Rowlands are a very good 3. People keep wondering what Matthews has to do to get a start, so I assume he's going very well too.

[mike909]

As soon as we start setting up property deals to circumvent the salary cap, then we'll get lock depth like Sarries.  In the meantime, Launch, Gaskell and Rowlands are a very good 3. People keep wondering what Matthews has to do to get a start, so I assume he's going very well too.

As soon as we start estate agency deals, will trigger this supporter to look elsewhere - so I am confident that we won't!

Re SR - our problem is that with Launch away so often, allowing for injuries and rest, we're probably one player light. We can also (I'm sure we do...) tailor selection to opposition but I don't think its a case of getting someone who is "4th" choice, as over a season, you are going to get double figure games, purely because of international calls and injuries, so if we are freeing up money from losing Mullun, Wade, WLR, Daly and Hughes I'd have thought there was the prospect of affording a SR of the Attwood mould, and personally, given the large number of backrow players, we can probably afford a SR for a BR?

[BG]

Interestingly Attwood said he signed for Brizz because they said they would help him go through Uni to re-train as a solicitor.

At the very least (if that is true) it show clubs need to think outside the box to attract players to a club rather than just the bottom line.

Isn't Wayne Barnes a barrister?

[mike909]

I think that might be a way forwards, (a QC I believe - re Wayne) as rugby can't be a career much beyond 35 and most players will need to look to do something else

Some, like Jamie Roberts, have been doing that in parallel - he is a doctor and currently is studying for a MPhil in Medical Science at Queens' College, Cambridge. How that fits with being at Bath, I am not sure - I regularly travel from nearby to family in the Cambs area and its a royal pain of a trip - though that is potentially taking a back seat to an MBA at Loughborough - which is an easier trip!

So, perhaps we do need to talk to nearby Uni's about how we can be of mutual help?

[Hymenoptera]

Raggs, I will have some if what you are having, optimism is one thing but if you can't see that we are short there I don't know what to say. Our locks are prem standard, if you mean Newcastle or Worcester standard. If you mean top four, no, just no.
Launch, Gaskell is a reasonablly strong combination, and then all the others are fourth choice locks, or fifth by top four standards.
Sarries bring on Kruis and Skelton.

Quoting Sarries as an example just doesn't support an argument, they are playing a totally different financial game.
You talk top 4, is our roster at 2nd row weaker than Quins, Saints  or even Exe? Gloc yes, but the others i'd argue not significantly.

[mike909]

We're weaker than Bath at SR - Attwood and Ewers, Charteris plus Stooke - England Saxons in the past and a recent squad call up plus Douglas. They have two pairs of very decent SRs

Quins probably have a better "average" at SR

I do think we ought to be looking for an improvement in the SR if only to allow us to compete physically more often.

[wasps]

This article is worth bearing in mind.
https://www.ruck.co.uk/rugby-unions-average-salaries-position/


Around 2003, I thought I'd heard that 2nd row was the lowest paid position in the forwards.
Based on that link, it's now the highest paid forward position.


I suspect that the difference is because of the way that forwards are expected to play these days.
2nd rows are expected to be big and strong. They're 6'6" and above, and usually a light 2nd row is nearly 18 stone.
However, they're also now expected to be athletic and mobile for a full 80 minutes, have good hands, and the best have a good brain and can call the lineout
They're no longer just big heavy lumps who push in a scrum, however they still need to be able to do that and be the driving force within the set piece.

There's not many athletes like that out there, so that has presumably pushed their value up over the last 15 years.