Saracens’ dominance will not end any time soon after Champions Cup victory over

[mike909]

Unfortunately for the game it's a +1 from me. I cannot see how that level of team can be maintained on the same cost basis as (say) Wasps.

+1 from me.

If you have a starting pack that includes Mako, George, Kruis, Maro and Billy and the England 10 and 15, reserve 9 and the best winger in the NH (now Wade is missing) plus the others - I'd question how you manage to pay then within a cap.

That 5 or 8 from a decent Lions pack, plus three Lions backs....

[NellyWellyWaspy]

But the cap is a set of rules, and rules, however well thought out, have loopholes. Sometimes, said loopholes are deliberate, to give the appearance of an effective set of rules whilst leaving those who designed them to bypass them. Only when found out do such loopholes get closed. What is worrying is the lack of apparent action by the RFU. They should already have started investigating and working out how to close the loophole. The reality is that they have probably known about what the EAs were up to for years, but as long is to didn't become public ...

That complicity (plausible deniability) will be what the RFU now fear. The fall out will be long and messy. I could hope it brings said body down, as it deserves to be, if for no other reason than they are generally incompetent.

[welsh wasp]

Manchester City are a good example of where “excess” money brings regular success which few clubs can compete with. Owned by the Abu Dhabi rulers plus sponsorship from Eithad - owned by the Abu Dhabi Government. So lots of money buys lots of success.
Saracens seem to replicate that model in rugby in terms of success - and money must be part of it. The interesting comparison is with Exeter who do not seem to have such a lot of money available.
The challenge for the Premiership is whether they are content that only 2-3 clubs seem likely to succeed each season and the other 10/11 fight amongst themselves to get to the quarterfinals and (mostly if not always) lose to one of the dominant clubs.
It cannot just be the quality of the players and the leadership. Money has a part to play.

[mike909]

To NWW and WW

I too believe that the authorities have used "deniability" to avoid coming to terms with what is clearly a question for the Premiership. Rugby as it is reffed and played in especially the Prem means there is advantage to those able to buy/recruit power. Whilst Sarries have had more than decent backs, they have in the main been second in priority to a near Lions standard pack

You could see how that works against us in the semi last season - off damn all ball we only lost 6-5 on tries but because the game was played such that the power in collisions was most important, even scoring 5 tries was not enough. It emphasises a narrower skillset with that power - exercised extremely well. And they have spent well, but financing just those second rows, Maro, Kruis, Skelton and Isiekwe alone is beyond most teams, all internationals.....plus 4 international props and the Lions hooker...suggests they have a lot of money and have spent it on a deep squad of power plus now some more decorative backs too...t next season a back three of Goode, Daly and Maitland and Williams

They can next season put out a team that is Maro, George, Kock, Kris, Maro, Billy plus two flankers, Wrigglesworth, Farrell, Barret, Loz, Maitland, Williams and Daly.....

[andermt]

How this is handled will, in my opinion, go a long way to deciding the fate of the English Premiership.

There will be a strong push from the Prem and RFU to sweep this under the carpet as it would be massive negative PR for the English game if the EA are found guilty as they would have effectively cheated their way to a Premiership title (or two) and a European championship.

Lets assume they don't sweep it under the carpet and the EA are penalised.
This weekend is the final round of the premiership and the EA are competing in the semi's and possibly the final, but it is very unlikely any decision will be made before then. Based on current league positions, if the EA are not there then Quins would be in the play-offs, with a chance to win the title, something that they are not currently able to do. Imagine a final weekend that puts Bath into 5th place and the reaction from Bruce Craig to his team missing that opportunity, he's not someone who would hold back his opinions.

Then there is the opposite where they sweep it under the carpet, imagine the reaction of the other 11/12 teams and their owners. They may take the position that they are done with Rugby and walk away, as they either have to cheat as well whilst the fake cap remains or the cap goes and the spending gets out of hand. Also in the last few seasons Wasps and Quins have been fined for going over the cap slightly due to player payments and bonuses. So, do Wasps and Quins get their fines back?

It was swept under the carpet a few years back, I don't think they can do it again but who knows.

Whatever happens I foresee lawsuits!

[westwaleswasp]

In the end we could all abolish the cap, and watch Sarries slide into mediocrity as Bath or Bristol win the lot as they have the richest owners.
Or we can enforce the cap and let the loopholes stay and watch Sarries win the lot.
Or we could go to a draft or roster system for  eqps, and let clubs buy in non English talent to supplement them.
Not very attractive propositions.
Enforcing properly but raising the cap is the likely outcome, and a bit of carpet brushing.

[mike909]

Enforcing properly ought not to be beyond the wit of an organisation with access to expert financial advisers and lawyers. Benefit in kind is well established for good reasons...by the Inland Revenue too. So if only players contracted to one team can access particular benefits that provide - in the end - a monetary return on top of any direct salary - that has to counted in any cap, surely?

There can be no other reason to offer such benefits to players, other than getting them to sign for your club and in return benefit a calculable monetary return

At present, when at full strength - most teams vs Sarries go for wither a weakened team and or damage limitation - even in Prem soccer, most games are at least potentially winnable - even if its unusual - but in the Premiership that doesn't now appear to be the case in one instance

I watch a lot of rugby - but rarely bother if a live TV game is Sarries. I've enjoyed watching all the other teams as most of the games were at least in jeopardy for extended periods. And the teams are at least within touching distance strength and standards

By applying a blind eye - there is the danger of biting the hand that feeds.

[Westy68]

For me too much has happened now going from the last time it was swept under the carpet.

This is why nothing will happen, winning European cups and leagues since the last allegation would just be to difficult for rugby too say it was wrong last time.

Sarries will do the double again and next season the gap will it bigger.

To not see anything done has really spoilt rugby for me but I do find it difficult to understand why other clubs put up with it. Or do the other clubs not really have enough evidence to do something, even though I keep hearing the clubs believe Sarries are breaking the cap. They are or they are not and so far it’s a not, which makes rugby look very silly

[Rossm]

Everyone is fearful of the litigious Mr Wray.

[jamestaylor002]

To what extent do you think the academy credits and England money come into play? Seeing as that's every Saracens fan seems to fall back on to defend themselves.

[BG]

I think we (as a group) worked out their credits were worth about £600 - £700k, but don't forget most clubs will be collecting between £100k - £300k  in credits as well so its doesn't really explain matters.. Sarries press office are using it as a smokescreen

[Chunky24]

Very impressive performance by their A team in the final tonight as well.
Some good carries and offloads early on from Vailanu.

[Rifleman Harris]

I see UEFA are investigating Manchester City and may ban them from the Champions League. That could be interesting, especially if the RFU brush it all under the carpet as I'm sure the comparison won't be missed.

[jamestaylor002]

I think we (as a group) worked out their credits were worth about £600 - £700k, but don't forget most clubs will be collecting between £100k - £300k  in credits as well so its doesn't really explain matters.. Sarries press office are using it as a smokescreen

Yes I thought as much. I knew they were earning a fair bit in credits but is no where near enough to be justifying some of the players they have.

[AKWasp]

Saw in a further article that Daly was going to be on £500k a year being ‘a significant increase on his current wage’.

Seems that pay cut stuff that everyone was told is rubbish then.