Saracens paying pensions?

[welsh wasp]

Interesting comment on Friday by Robert Kitson in The Guardian about how Saracens treat their employees:
“...they always go the extra mile - at least one former player is still receiving contributions towards his property costs seven years after his retirement...”
A very long mile! Can this be done outside the salary cap!?

[Nopace]

There could be trouble ahead...

[mike909]

Interesting comment on Friday by Robert Kitson in The Guardian about how Saracens treat their employees:
“...they always go the extra mile - at least one former player is still receiving contributions towards his property costs seven years after his retirement...”
A very long mile! Can this be done outside the salary cap!?

Ok - my experience is not in this area - but having dealt with legals in respect of what local government gets up to - and one good friend who is a lawyer - these sort of matters can be sometimes be done outside the intentions of even legislation (in the LG examples) and outside the intentions of the contractual arrangements - per allegedly what Sarries are doing.

Actually including everything in an agreement is a hard one - I'd guess Sarries have lawyers who have definitions of payments which might be seen to not fit within the agreement as written but also outside the intention of the agreement.

If they are entering such territory - they could "get away" with it due to the legal position - even if its not seen to be right by those involved in rugby...

[backdoc]

pension = deferrred salary = salary.

[mike909]

pension = deferrred salary = salary.

Its does - but it seems its described as "property costs" rather than pension - I think we'd need more info

I would agree there are plenty of questions to ask...

[BG]

Pension payments are included within the salary cap but the alleged payment isn't a pension payment. The important fact is that the person has left Sarries so whatever payments are made has nothing to do with the Salary Cap. In effect it could be paying for consultancy work that the former player now does for Sarries (although the statement implies its an altruistic payment for services rendered years before). It just shows how easy it is to circumvent the Salary Cap if you want to pay your players more money. This payment though seems to rely on an element of trust between Sarries/Wray and a former employee.

What would be interesting to find out is if the ongoing payment is part of a written contract signed whilst he was a player (i.e. We Saracens agree to pay Player A for a further 10 yrs after his employment ceases) or a gentlemen's agreement?

[Dgwasp]

I think it is only breaking the spirit of the salary cap and will most likely be agreed in a way that protects Sarries against any unlawful breach.

It is however definitely against the point of the cap and in my view cheating by paying someone £A in terms of salary, with an agreement that it will really be £B over an extended period of time.  For me it kind of devalues the Premiership, other clubs could technically repeat this behaviour (and most likely will) but that will do nothing to resolve the terrible state of finances in the sport.

[mike909]

I think it is only breaking the spirit of the salary cap and will most likely be agreed in a way that protects Sarries against any unlawful breach.

It is however definitely against the point of the cap and in my view cheating by paying someone £A in terms of salary, with an agreement that it will really be £B over an extended period of time.  For me it kind of devalues the Premiership, other clubs could technically repeat this behaviour (and most likely will) but that will do nothing to resolve the terrible state of finances in the sport.

Yep - agree with all that. It can be only way any team could afford, in the current "market", so many Lions squad (in the 23) members plus other internationals and ex England players. I think its 7 or 8 Lions, plus the others

I presume Wasps pay at cap, and have possibly one Lions squad member (Launch) and two other England squad players in Robson (third choice at best) and Shields, having lost Hughes. Yes we have some second team ABs x 2 but have lost our SA FB too. And the rest of the squad are decent Prem players, with Taylor and Bassett playing yesterday - but not anywhere near the England squad in reality at present.

Look at Bath - at best - Watson is a Lions starter, Roberts an ex Wales international, JJ England squad. Joe C England squad, Roko, ex squad, Underhill England squad (have I missed any) They have as much money as anyone - yet can stretch to one Lions starter/squad member (pos 2 with JJ)

[BG]

Someone (I think on the other site ages ago) raised the point of front loading marquee player salaries.. The theory follows - you sign someone for a 3 yr contract.. the 1st year as a marquee you pay them £700k and as a marquee that is outside of the salary cap, then you transfer the marquee status to someone else the next year and then pay the previous player £100k for the next 2 yrs.. the contract is still worth £900k over 3 yrs but years 2 and 3 have a lesser effect on the cap

[Raggs]

Someone (I think on the other site ages ago) raised the point of front loading marquee player salaries.. The theory follows - you sign someone for a 3 yr contract.. the 1st year as a marquee you pay them £700k and as a marquee that is outside of the salary cap, then you transfer the marquee status to someone else the next year and then pay the previous player £100k for the next 2 yrs.. the contract is still worth £900k over 3 yrs but years 2 and 3 have a lesser effect on the cap

You can't do that. The salary is spread out evenly over the duration of the salary.

[Westy68]

Sarries can do whatever they like, no one is going to do anything about it.

That is why sarries do it.

[Neils]

Sarries can do whatever they like, no one is going to do anything about it.

That is why sarries do it.

This!!!!

[baldpaul101]

Not sure if this has been mentioned on here before:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cbd-cannabis-oil-athletes

Its not just property they are expanding into & at £75 for 1000mg I can see it being quite profitable!!

If there's any truth in any of the alleged benefits it could explain why Sarries players seem to come back from injury so quickly.....

[mike909]

If its true, its cheaper than my physio.....