Time to Eat Humble Pie

[Rossm]

I have been a vocal critic of Eddie Jones more or less as soon as he became England's coach. Having taken their place in next weekends WC final with one of the best displays of rugby that I think I have ever seen, I must finally admit that he probably knows what he is doing after all. I haven't waited until after the final because now seems the right time to tuck into humble pie à la carte. Well done Eddie and England. I didn't think you would get any where near the final.

But, and there is always a but, I'll never forget or forgive you for Sam Jones.

[InBetweenWasp]

I don’t think he’s helped himself along the way with some of his ridiculous baiting of the press.

But when you listen to why he hasn’t picked certain players, or why he seemingly jettisoned the likes of Care, Robshaw, Brown, Teo, Hughes etc... so close to the RWC what he says makes sense.

He’s clearly a difficult, highly-strung guy and I think with Eddie you’re either in or you’re very much out.  If you’re in, it’s brutal but you love him.  If you’re out, it’s brutal and he’s disliked.

All that being said, he’s got an incredible capability of being able to get the best out of a team and is clearly a very astute tactician and coach. 

[AKWasp]

Been a rollercoaster of a time in charge and while we may question many of his choices throughout the way, he was brought in to win the 2019 World Cup and he is just one game away from achieving that.

Method behind the madness, you can’t argue with the end result.

[mike909]

I think questioning Jones and his methods is entirely valid

Anyone who wants to try and spin losing 5 in a row - only (ironically) to be saved by Danny in SA - as part of the plan is trying very hard!

15 months ago, it was in the balance for Jones and England, made to look one paced and not on the ball at the breakdown - losing to Scotland and indeed losing three in a 6Ns for the first time, he made very late changes to the team and squad and the gamble just about paid off. England have always been able to pull off a great result - but no one was calling the 2012 win vs the ABs anything but a good performance

Where are we now? Well, England have managed one 80 minute performance of the quality that had been there in sections for a while. That's great. Now - winning in 2003 didn't make England the best team in the world as they failed to back it up. This team has the clear advantage of being younger and earlier in development - but its still a team that this calendar year conceded 6 unanswered tries vs a poor Scotland team....

Jones had a great RWC record (c.f Aus in 03, SA in 07 and Japan in 15) but also a record of rapidly losing teams (c.f the same Aus team amongst a few)

So - for me - its a great RWC performance, just because we've beaten the ABs for the first time in 7 years is great - but lets not get carried away too much....yet!

(Too much experience of false dawns has probably made me rather "glass half empty!")

[InBetweenWasp]

I’m not sure he tried to spin the 5 losses in a row.  I’m sure there were things he was trying, but don’t think he was trying to lose!

In the interviews he’s done, changing the squad was something he saw as unforeseen but believed he needed to make the changes and bring in fresh blood as the likes of Robshaw, Hartley, Brown, Care etc... weren’t doing the things he was after to a high enough standard that he thought they’d be able to do.

So he made the brave call to jettison them and bring in players who he felt could make the grade.  It would have been easy for them to carry on with highly experienced, capped players and keep fingers crossed and weaker coaches might have kept the status quo.

[Heathen]

Eddie is very good at stress testing players.

[mike909]

I’m not sure he tried to spin the 5 losses in a row.  I’m sure there were things he was trying, but don’t think he was trying to lose!

In the interviews he’s done, changing the squad was something he saw as unforeseen but believed he needed to make the changes and bring in fresh blood as the likes of Robshaw, Hartley, Brown, Care etc... weren’t doing the things he was after to a high enough standard that he thought they’d be able to do.

So he made the brave call to jettison them and bring in players who he felt could make the grade.  It would have been easy for them to carry on with highly experienced, capped players and keep fingers crossed and weaker coaches might have kept the status quo.

I think you might have misread my post...my fault - I never suggested Eddie was trying to spin anything out of 5 losses - but the 6Ns forced his hand with the changes - that have been to date in the RWC a success, but that the changes were very late in the day means it was a gamble.

Sometimes you win!

[Gaz]

Agreed - he is a very good tournament coach, his methods in between are not for everyone.

He had the opportunity to create a more expansive game based off of a more dynamic 9 & 10 but went against form and opinion. Still never really resolved the 9 issue and I think Youngs is still our weak link.

But the manner of our performances, they way we buttoned down the games v Arg, Aus and NZ just as they were threatening to build a head of steam is very impressive.

Not impressed with the way the BBC is reporting "England's Jones takes swipe at Wales coach Gatland", when Gats started it!

[Rossm]

Also I need to apologise to Raggs who stuck with Eddie despite a lot of flak.

[Hymenoptera]

Is it possible that his stars aligned and having access to some of the best players in the world for an extended period worked in his favor. Sometime the chips just fall perfectly...ala Woodward, who's dined out on it ever since. The 2003 team would have won had Woodward stayed in bed the entire time.

Just throwing it out there. 

[matelot22]

Is it possible that his stars aligned and having access to some of the best players in the world for an extended period worked in his favor. Sometime the chips just fall perfectly...ala Woodward, who's dined out on it ever since. The 2003 team would have won had Woodward stayed in bed the entire time.

Just throwing it out there. 

I think that's potentially a little harsh, I've had a sense throughout the tournament that the way we were winning without going all out perhaps suggested that Eddie was keeping his powder dry and saving something special. Trouble was I couldn't convince myself....

[Tervueren]

The 2003 nearly did not win it, they were not that dominant and had quite a few scares on the way to the final then nearly fell to Flately's boot.

[Dgwasp]

In hind sight you can see that Eddie has been concentrating on picking a squad with the right attitude that will really bond and play for each other and to his plan, rather than picking the best players available.  It is odd that he has gone with some of the surprise calls such as Heinz, however it seems to have done him well and he has performed when asked to.

[Heathen]

In hind sight you can see that Eddie has been concentrating on picking a squad with the right attitude that will really bond and play for each other and to his plan, rather than picking the best players available.  It is odd that he has gone with some of the surprise calls such as Heinz, however it seems to have done him well and he has performed when asked to.

That is exactly what a good manager should do!

[welsh wasp]

For what its worth, I will be supporting England on Saturday - but S Africa will not be easy opponents.

One comment about EJ - he has also changed a number of his backroom staff not just players.