Saracens docked 35 points

[Gaz]

Depressing really. A long appeal process, no change in the squad they illegally assembled. Looks like they got away with it to me.

So they won't be in the champions cup next year. Big deal, neither will a lot of other clubs they cheated.

[Rifleman Harris]

Depressing really. A long appeal process, no change in the squad they illegally assembled. Looks like they got away with it to me.

So they won't be in the champions cup next year. Big deal, neither will a lot of other clubs they cheated.

They may well win the Champions Cup this year and next year. They probably won't win the Premiership this year... That's all really.

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[Fats]

The players are guilty too. They knowingly entered into contracts with Saracens. Let’s not pussy around. People who went to speakeasies were knowingly breaking the law but chose to do it. Same with the players. They need to bear responsibility and any costs.

I noted in an article in the Torygraph that it was ED signing that might have tipped things over the edge.

But Fats it matters not, the contract is between Saracens and the player, anything outside of that is irrelevant... The responsibility is wholey on the employer, he made the offer, he issued the contract, he is bound. You call it pussying around, I call it a legal contract...wonder what wins in court.

A contract has two parties. The “buyer” needs to ensure what he is getting is legal. Caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.

I assume players can read and ask for advice. They have NOT signed up to these agreements blindly.   They could have a hard d time on that one.

[Rifleman Harris]

I'm listening to the BBC Rugby Union Podcast.  Danny Care is very outspoken - it's Rugby's worst kept secret and has been going on for decades!  It's worth a listen, but I don't think this is the end of it.

[Tervueren]

Was an interesting listen. Clearly made his blood boil.

[Neils]

You can tell he is very angry. Well worth listening to.

[Rifleman Harris]

I definitely don't think 'business as usual' will cut it for the cheats.  Unless there is a clear and obvious attempt to reduce the wage bill I don't think anything they do will be untainted.

Also Allianz are a financial institution...this sort of thing should fit right in with how they operate.  I can't see them leaving any time soon.

[Neils]

Allianz now branded cheats (by association) can't sit too well with them long term.

[RogerE]

I see Wray is saying that a. They did nothing wrong and b. They don't have to and won't be dismantling their squad. Apparently they are under the cap now because the players love the environment so much. It was in the Independent (I think), if I can find a link I'll post it. 

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Getting close to the time where the other owners will have to put up or shut up and accept they are permanently second best.

or the other 12 Clubs walk away and set-up their own "Premiership", leaving Saracens to join the French or Pro 12 leagues, where they can spend up to whatever they want.

[Rifleman Harris]

Now that would be interesting. Just raising it as a possibility will put pressure on PRL not to let it lie and hold the cheats properly responsible.

[Tervueren]

Might be tricky with the CVS investment, there might just be some conditions in that deal that would stop a breakaway.

[DGP Wasp]

Now that would be interesting. Just raising it as a possibility will put pressure on PRL not to let it lie and hold the cheats properly responsible.

And presumably if not playing in the English Premiership, Sarries players would become ineligible for England selection.  That would certainly get interesting.

[baldpaul101]

Interesting point re Sarries not dealing with players through agents. Maybe because they didn't want agents to know the details of what they were doing?

Very interesting to see other clubs coming out & opening saying what they think. I don't see how this can go away given the apparent strength of feeling.

[Tervueren]

I think agent fees are included in the salary cap, the players can be paid what would have gone to the agent and get more that way.

[MarleyWasp]

Agents fees plus VAT are included. That's hiwhow we overspent by £42k a few years ago.