Saracens docked 35 points

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I still think that some enterprising flag maker could make up some fake Sarries flags. You know, the ones that have the Crescent and Star, then Saracens, then a hashtag on?

#rugbycheats

[Neils]

I still think that some enterprising flag maker could make up some fake Sarries flags. You know, the ones that have the Crescent and Star, then Saracens, then a hashtag on?

#rugbycheats

Ha ha - make it happen. You would get 11 clubs keen to get them. Will be interesting to see what the Shed comes up with on Saturday.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Well, the good news is that BT are covering our game on Friday, and the Glaws vs Cheats game on Saturday. Will BT let the pundits speak? I truly hope they do get flags made and they appear on BT TV. Let's hope the Shed are in fine voice.

[wasps]

I genuinely believe the Elliot Daly move kickstarted something in the background .. the straw that broke the camels back

The interesting thing is, there was a strong argument at the time that Saracens had enough senior players retiring / leaving that they probably could cover Elliott Daly's wages.
Liam Williams was presumably signed to be a marquee player, so there was need to cover the previous marquee players salary.


They did have a lot of old heads leaving in the summer, so it might have been possible to cover both of their salaries without getting further into red.
However, they were probably already so far into the red by then that it made little difference to them anyway

[Neils]

Well, the good news is that BT are covering our game on Friday, and the Glaws vs Cheats game on Saturday. Will BT let the pundits speak? I truly hope they do get flags made and they appear on BT TV. Let's hope the Shed are in fine voice.

I think so. Watch Rugby Tonight Live from last night. Austin and Al Eykyn were good.

[Shugs]

The Academy angle is an interesting one. Sarries always argued that their cap wasn't breached due to them developing and promoting talent from their academy. But these youths were themselves probably tempted with offers similar to those made to "big name" signings. So even the players helping reduce the cap have probably been attracted by dubious means.

[wasps]

The Academy angle is an interesting one. Sarries always argued that their cap wasn't breached due to them developing and promoting talent from their academy. But these youths were themselves probably tempted with offers similar to those made to "big name" signings. So even the players helping reduce the cap have probably been attracted by dubious means.

Moreover, did Saracens have the ability to focus on their academy so much by having a salary cap busting squad made of South Africans?

Before their academy was producing talent, they shipped on a bunch of Southern hemisphere players and started winning championships.
This brought them money, a strong fan base, a following and investment.
However, there were very strong feelings that they weren't within the cap back then.


The strength of their matchday squads allowed them to bring youth players into a winning team and build the model that they now have.
But it was probably built in cheating originally

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I wonder how this is affecting the overall morale of the squad.

I bet those players who don't have a  joint venture with Wray or his cronies are feeling a little miffed that they are now being pilloried because of those who do.

[AKWasp]

With the Elliot Daly situation I believe it did kickstart some investigations etc. He may be within the cap due to players leaving but I think the fact that he was another lion, another international and a player still with his best years ahead of him raised too many questions on how it was logical.

Especially with all the ‘he’s on less salary than he was at wasps’ being replied to by Dai as ‘no one leaves for less money’.

That call and response made a lot of people think, okay he may be on less salary, but he’s getting more money due to investments.

I love Elliot and wish him the best at Saracens as he’s a quality player who deserves success so I don’t want to imply that he should be implicated in any of this negativity but I do think that move sums up what’s been happening at Sarries

[BG]

I wonder how this is affecting the overall morale of the squad.

I bet those players who don't have a  joint venture with Wray or his cronies are feeling a little miffed that they are now being pilloried because of those who do.

Some of the WC players appeared on the Jonathan Ross show (presumably filmed last night) to be aired on Sat evening... unsurprisingly no Sarrie player was there.

I would think Sarries will batten down the hatches and pull the draw-bridge up.. but you can't help think some players must be wondering if they're losing out on "extra" perks. It surprised me that Goode doesn't appear to have a co-investment with Wray (or maybe the LTD company has been found yet). He is one of the core spine of the squad.

[DGP Wasp]

Well there will be nowhere for them to hide at Kingsholm tomorrow afternoon!

[bournender2]

Other interesting things have happened in this 3 year period.

Latterly they have lost two directors, one of which apparently was the recruiter etc.
A couple of years ago Wray bought out the SA investors, ostensibly to prevent "interference" and because of the Rand exchange rate.

This was personally interesting. I was invited by a club mate and Allianz employee to the 2014 EC semi at Twickenham v Clermont. It was top corporate and Royal Box seat so not to be sneezed at :-)
Tiny crowd made it an awful supporter experience and EC won't repeat.

During the game, Nigel Owens used the TMO to check whether the ball was deliberately knocked over the dead ball line from a high kick. My realisation (being an ex ref) of what he was checking was overheard by the Saffa in front and we had a conversation.
Monday morning my mate phoned to let me know he had identified the guy as an investor and I had been talking to one of the richest guys in SA? Surprised he would be worried by exchange rates?

[Neils]

Ref Saffer co-owners there was a rumour at the time that they wanted out because of the first transgression and Wray's operating methods. Just a rumour but was from somebody who is now a platinum season ticket holder (who has gone very quiet on me despite offer8many points for a chat).

[RogerE]

Ref Saffer co-owners there was a rumour at the time that they wanted out because of the first transgression and Wray's operating methods. Just a rumour but was from somebody who is now a platinum season ticket holder (who has gone very quiet on me despite offer8many points for a chat).

I heard from someone who used to be employed there, that there was a board meeting at which a female South African raised the question of financial irregularities and following heated discussions she threatened that the SAs would withdraw from the Club; shortly afterwards they were "bought-out" by Wray.

[BG]

I'd read or heard the same thing. The female SA was the daughter of the main saffa investor who was on the board looking after their interests. She asked for assurances that everything was above board and obviously what she was told didn't stack up.. not long after, the investors asked for their share to be bought out. I think the Saffa investors (did they own mining companies??) quoted a change on SA tax rules on overseas investments as a reason for pulling out of Sarries.

Coincidental?