Saracens docked 35 points

[Gaz]

That's all well and good until they replace Skelton with Launchbury (hypothetical of course).

We could turn a corner, then they'd come and take our best players so that we will never really be able to compete.

[backdoc]

Yes, that is a really important point. Taking the players away from the opposition, giving them equivalent wages by whatever means, more controlled game-time. Eviscerating the opposition.

[Westy68]

I really don’t get the remakes from McCall, we are only concentrating on the league because we don’t want to get relegated.

That’s not going to happen, I think if you take the last 7 years the worst Sarries would finish is 10th, I could be wrong, or is this a feel sorry campaign.

Sarries are not going to get relegated, I should think top 6 is still a possibility.

I’m not buying we could get relegated story that rubbish

[westwaleswasp]

I don't want to punish Wasps for Sarries' sins, but, and it is a but, I expect us to take a stand. If we do not, then the club will be less likely to get my cash. I support Wasps, but I also support rugby as a whole, and that is what is hurt by them getting away with it.
If they get away with it, and we say nothing, then surely we are complicit?

[Tervueren]

According to the PRL statement, the Asterisks failed to report certain payments to the Cap Manager at PRL AND breached the salary cap in each of the last 3 years. Brian Moore suggests that image rights payments were made to offshore bank accounts AND were not declared. What are the so-called "co-investments" (there are other and better descriptions than that) are not specifically mentioned in the PRL statement.

This was also stated in the Observer last week.

[mike909]

So - are we basically saying that the payment of image rights, placed in offshore accounts, was the only material over payments that breached the salary cap? i.e. players in total were paid image rights, but those payments went offshore? Which is not likely to be a mistake!

Where does that leave the "co-investments" then?

It does seem the EAs are looking to breach the cap by any means possible.

[Hymenoptera]

No one really knows..they cheated and were found guilty, that's good enough for me.

[AKWasp]

Not been on the thread a few days so apologies if I repeat anything.

1) I’ve heard the appeal is not against the punishment- it’s about whether the rules in the first place are illegal (which has been pretty much quashed as Sarries signed them off when the salary cap was introduced) or whether the independent panel have not enforced/interpreted them properly (which I doubt is true). I don’t think this appeal will stand up.

2) In terms of the investments and the fact that it is based on property- Nigel Wray made his money in this area, I highly doubt that these are high risk investments, yes they may go down but his knowledge means it’s unlikely that they will go down. Not every club/owner can do that.

3) House of rugby was very fair, almost too fair as Tinds appreciated the looking after players aspect but said it was only fair if it was a proper 50-50 investment where the players were investing equal amounts into the company and that they weren’t just businesses that held money (Wolfpack lager, coffee shop being fair game as they are actual businesses providing a service). Rob Vickerman did put some doubt on that with his inspection of companies house and the fact that the only asset was a £1.5m property.

[mike909]

No one really knows..they cheated and were found guilty, that's good enough for me.

One one hand, yes. But I'd like to able to counter EA supporter fake news

It seems the rights were the tipping point - but I'd have hoped there was a holistic position such that it was explained if direct salaries = the cap, and that there were then additional image rights payments (offshore ffs!) plus no risk "investments" as I can't see how they otherwise retain so many internationals

And, after that, the salary cap regs probably require adjustments

[Heathen]

According to S.Jones in the Times tonight, Sarries have accepted the fine and the points deduction.

[backdoc]

No wonder, Heathen, if they just carry on as usual.

They have a 'lesser' team out tomorrow, but there are still 4 Internationals on the bench [ and I think 9 on the pitch - but don't quote me as I looked in haste].

[Rossm]

According to S.Jones in the Times tonight, Sarries have accepted the fine and the points deduction.

And in the Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7693821/Saracens-make-dramatic-u-turn-accept-penalties-salary-cap-breaches.html

[coddy]

Ok good, that's the punishment accepted. Now I wonder how are they going to get back under the cap?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

When will they be giving the trophies they stole back?

[BG]

I've just watched House of Rugby.. Tindall is another apologist.. Rob Vickerman on the other hand sees it from the other side and has looked into Companies House records.

Who owns the following company

Show Me the Monye Ltd

Brilliant company name

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08011859/officers