Saracens docked 35 points

[FishingWasp]

Now that Saracen's have announced that they are not pursuing the review I would like
1 PRL to publicly announce that Saracen's decision is not on the back of a deal with Saracens (not that I'm sceptical, of course.....)
2 Saracen's to publicly apologise for their recklessness, at the very least
3 Saracen's to announce how they intend to comply this year
4 The full "judgement" to be published

Maybe then we can draw a line and move forward, much as it irks and leaves a nasty taste.

[mike909]

Now that Saracen's have announced that they are not pursuing the review I would like
1 PRL to publicly announce that Saracen's decision is not on the back of a deal with Saracens (not that I'm sceptical, of course.....)
2 Saracen's to publicly apologise for their recklessness, at the very least
3 Saracen's to announce how they intend to comply this year
4 The full "judgement" to be published

Maybe then we can draw a line and move forward, much as it irks and leaves a nasty taste.

+1

[wasps]

So, they're saying that at the moment they're not even considering the co-investments that the Daily Mail brought up - that'll presumably be a separate investigation by the salary cap manager.


The breach is essentially image rights which were being hidden in offshore accounts.

So the top players at Saracens have a salary within the cap, some images rights that are presumably accounted for within the cap, some image rights hidden in offshore accounts outside of the cap, and co-investments with Wray which we currently don't if they're legal or not


I believe people have said that over the last 3 years, the breach is something around £2m, and therefore approx £700k per year.
However that's just for the hidden image rights that have been found so far.

If the co-investments are found to be illegal too, that's going to double/triple that figure at least.

We could genuinely be looking at a team that has been working with 50% more resources then everyone else

[Rossm]

Nigel Wray has been exposed as a serial cheat. How he can remain at the helm astonishes me. Surely the EA's sponsors will be looking closely at their associations with this tarnished club?

[wasps]

Nigel Wray has been exposed as a serial cheat. How he can remain at the helm astonishes me. Surely the EA's sponsors will be looking closely at their associations with this tarnished club?

And yet everyone who is asked about Nigel Wray, even those who want Saracens severely punished, say how great Wray is and how great he is for the game.

[Rossm]

Nigel Wray has been exposed as a serial cheat. How he can remain at the helm astonishes me. Surely the EA's sponsors will be looking closely at their associations with this tarnished club?

And yet everyone who is asked about Nigel Wray, even those who want Saracens severely punished, say how great Wray is and how great he is for the game.

Nobody's asked me

[wasps]

Nigel Wray has been exposed as a serial cheat. How he can remain at the helm astonishes me. Surely the EA's sponsors will be looking closely at their associations with this tarnished club?

And yet everyone who is asked about Nigel Wray, even those who want Saracens severely punished, say how great Wray is and how great he is for the game.

Nobody's asked me

RossM, how do you feel about Nigel Wray?

[Rossm]

Nigel Wray has been exposed as a serial cheat. How he can remain at the helm astonishes me. Surely the EA's sponsors will be looking closely at their associations with this tarnished club?

And yet everyone who is asked about Nigel Wray, even those who want Saracens severely punished, say how great Wray is and how great he is for the game.

Nobody's asked me

RossM, how do you feel about Nigel Wray?

As I said he's now been exposed as a serial cheat and he is also a liar. Ultimately he has been disastrous for his club and the professional game in England.

[mike909]

I believe people have said that over the last 3 years, the breach is something around £2m, and therefore approx £700k per year.
However that's just for the hidden image rights that have been found so far.

If the co-investments are found to be illegal too, that's going to double/triple that figure at least.

We could genuinely be looking at a team that has been working with 50% more resources then everyone else

Well - certainly if co-investments are included - its cheating of the first order as such perks are not available unless you work for the EA's, and so are part of the benefits paid/available to EA plays and EA players alone

That any team can field at full strength around 9 of anyone's Lions 23 suggests something is very wrong with the system.

[Shugs]

Seems to me the RFU need to find a way to assess a teams compliance with the cap before they start the season. Otherwise we end up with the slightly farcical situation we now have where a team gains points whilst still in breach of the cap.

[mike909]

Seems to me the RFU need to find a way to assess a teams compliance with the cap before they start the season. Otherwise we end up with the slightly farcical situation we now have where a team gains points whilst still in breach of the cap.

This 100%

As McCall is quoted as saying no change this season.....so a cheater squad can play on.

[RBB]

Multiple reports circulating that the EAs will not appeal as they fear the review may give rise to an even heftier fine and deduction, which offers up the question what have their consultants highlighted that would cause concern beyond the current position? In addition most major dailies are reporting that there is a staff meeting, players and officials on Wednesday, apparently to discuss the way forward. Added to the rumours that they will cut their squad, this will prove to be a most interesting week.

I can only think that if in contract players are cut then that would be a massive legal issue in itself, terminating a player who is in contract would mean severance would kick in and that would cost further millions, I cannot see them cutting academy products as Wray's defence is based on that aspect of their development programme and how 'kind' he has been to England. If any in contract players are cut (a massive IF), it would have to be based on those players who have the least amount of time left, however tempered with earnings as that will drive the severance number, which I expect will be a worry given the club's massive debt pile.

I do feel that in order for the EAs to recover any modicum of credibility from this whole disastrous episode, then they will suck up the punishment and have to make some sort of squad reduction concession. At face value Wray appears to be a confident and 'couldn't care less' kind of character. However given his alleged love of the game, I am sure that he won't want to be documented in rugby history as being the head of the rotting fish that is the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the English professional game since its inception. Will he even be there after this, or will a sword be fallen on?

[backdoc]

If you have a large squad and were very sneaky, could you not have a core of maybe 6-8 players who you only play in Europe and Premiership Rugby Cup games, ensuring they do not play for and are not included in the Premiership squad?

[westwaleswasp]

He will be there. He is like a a dose of gonorrhoea you can't shake. Be honest, the club would not exist without him and now he has stained it who would step in? Even if he took a step back, it would be a Putin type sabbatical whilst a puppet ran it, followed by an unwelcome return.

I want to see that squad reduced now, and frankly I don't give a toss if players get shafted, they all knew the score. I fear they will be given the promise of a bung later rather than being told they are not able to play. The coinvestments have not even been considered, a dead rat on top of a few live ones scurrying under the surface. No amount of tame journos will save this one, fans need to make themselves heard at the games, at the post match on BT, in the Rugby Paper, if anyone still buys it after their paid for services as Sarries' PR.

Singleton played for them yesterday, another Billy type pinching of a young international.

[wasps]

Ok, so let's take this at face value for a moment.
Let's assume they've accepted that they've cheated. They pay the fine, they take the points deduction and they bring their squad back under the salary cap.

I'm winning to accept that there's special dispensation to allow them to pay off contracts without being forced to pay a full salary cap fine again for the severance pay


So, who and how many would they need to release from the squad before we're happy to believe that they're within the cap?

Even if they dropped Daly, Williams, Farrell (for example) I'm not sure that I'd believe they're within the cap, even though those 3 probably earn over £1.5 million per year between them