Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Tibo Flament  (Read 6971 times)

BG

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Tibo Flament
« on: November 25, 2019, 09:51:57 AM »
Out of all the signings this season (and possibly last) he is the one that has stood out.

He was signed from Loughborough Students (not even their 1st team I think) and despite being in our academy, he doesn't look out of place in our matchday squads.

Its would be just a guesstimate but I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the players with the highest minutes played this season (given that he played in the 7's and premiership cup)... which has got me thinking..

He's in the academy and I believe someone on this forum said wages were restricted £30 - £40k whilst rubbing shoulders with teammates possibly on 5 - 10 times that.

Can he be promoted mid season? I think he's being used to cover for Garrat retiring, Gaskell being injured and Matthews.. who's either injured all fallen out of favour.

I presume whilst he's playing in the premiership games he's not adding to the salary cap either?

Are academy players restricted to how much senior premiership game time they can play ?

Surely, even at this early stage, Dai will have already offered a senior contract for next season?


Neils

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2019, 10:16:12 AM »
We were talking about this on Saturday at the match  I think he is stuck in the Senior Academy this season due to Cap regulations (unlike EAs we probably play by the rules) but will have an extended full contract on the table for next year. Quite a find.
Let me tell you something cucumber

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 10:27:40 AM »
Dai has previously hinted that it is now (in November) that next season's contracts are offered, and those who will be released will also, I suspect, be informed. All with the intent of everyone knowing where they stand before the New Year, which is when other prem clubs can contact our players. Except Academy players. Then, in January, Dai can talk to external senior players to fill any gaps. I am hoping there will be very few gaps this year, and those that there may be, may be filled with Academy players being promoted. Then I think he talks to Academy players in March.

That's not to say conversations cannot be had before then. In Tibo's case. I agree.

Does he, by being in the Academy this year, qualify as 'home grown', as he has not been in any other academy? Someone mentioned a rule about them signing at 18, but I can't find a mention of this in the rules. Tibo's route into pro rugby was rather unusual. Given his lack of physique at 18, nobody was interested in him. It was only his desire that kept him playing, as it does for so many amateurs. Then he went to Argentina, bulked up, switched from a lanky FH to beefy Lock and came back as we see him, and continued to work with a local (to Wasps) club and train the youngsters there, again in his role as keen amateur, and that way came to the notice of someone who brought him to the attention of Wasps some weeks before the Sevens. Wasps signed him up and gave him a no risk punt at the Sevens, and he was a revelation. The rest, they say, is history. To see a lock who sidesteps the tackle and then accelerates away is most unusual. The crowd on Saturday saw him do just that and make many yards as a result.

What I wonder is, how long before a French club offer him a lot of money? Right now he has to be worth upwards of £50k. How long before the French national team start to look at him? The French are not limited by our 'no contact' contract rules.

westwaleswasp

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 10:52:03 AM »
If we can get him signed for a couple, the worst case is that a French club may come knocking down the line. Still a great boost.

Is there a chance he qualifys by residency as English? I am unsure on the rules these days....

DGP Wasp

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 11:30:00 AM »
England qualification would be on the standard residency rules now wouldn't it?  (Now 5 years?)  I think the residency period is shorter for younger players who have come through their adopted country's academy system, but as he was 22 when we signed him I can't imagine he qualifies under anything other than the standard World Rugby rules.  Although he was with Loughborough for 4 years before us, he took a year out playing in Argentina during that time, so I think residency would then have had to start from scratch again after that.

If he continues to catch the eye for Wasps but still not being picked for France, then moving to the Top 14 would be seen as a way to boost his chances.  And if he's performing well enough for Wasps to get himself picked for France while still with us then offers would likely come forward that we wouldn't be able to compete with on salary.

BG

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 12:09:02 PM »
Residency is now 5 yrs (and rightly so) but I wonder how long he was in Argentina? A season, a full year and does that count as breaking the residency rules because presumably he was still a resident of the UK as he came back to the UK to live as a student.

If a foreign born player living in England decided to take a 3 month sabbatical travelling the SH would that break the EQP residency rules.

I know Jacob qualifies through birth, but he spent a year (season) in NZ didn't he?

Tibo does speak English with a French/East Midlands accent though which in my mind qualifies him  ;D

Daeg

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 12:20:04 PM »
Residency is now 5 yrs (and rightly so) but I wonder how long he was in Argentina? A season, a full year and does that count as breaking the residency rules because presumably he was still a resident of the UK as he came back to the UK to live as a student.

If a foreign born player living in England decided to take a 3 month sabbatical travelling the SH would that break the EQP residency rules.

I know Jacob qualifies through birth, but he spent a year (season) in NZ didn't he?

Tibo does speak English with a French/East Midlands accent though which in my mind qualifies him  ;D

that he can understand the East Midlands accent should be all the qualification he needs!!!

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 12:30:31 PM »
Sadly, under Regulation 8, the time lived in the country have to be consecutive months. I imagine that would allow short breaks abroad, but as soon as a full month (I presume calendar) is taken abroad, the clock starts all over again. I have a feeling there is also a rule that does not count months spent in full time education, so only after university would any time count.

BUT. Residency is an odd word to use. Residency means you are 'legally' resident in a house, not necessarily living there. As long as he has a rent book, a utility bill in his name, he remains 'resident'.

How long was he in South America? A month, many months, a full year ....

Was it a gap year at uni? If it came down to it, I suspect World Rugby and English Rugby could be quite flexible, if they wanted to be.

Tervueren

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 12:39:30 PM »
I though the 5 year rule was a change from the start of 2021

* though if the period has just started it will not reach 3 years before the new rule comes in
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 12:41:52 PM by Tervueren »

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 01:58:23 PM »
Mmm.

If the 5 rule doesn't start yet, I suspect he will already have done 36 months here. We are not lawyers, but I would bet Wasps have looked that over.

BG

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 02:17:27 PM »
I though the 5 year rule was a change from the start of 2021

* though if the period has just started it will not reach 3 years before the new rule comes in

I thought 2021 was the year that 5yr qualified could (taking it back to 2016).. errr. qualify.. as opposed to starting the process at 2021..


Tervueren

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 02:28:05 PM »
I think that is what  I was attempting, probably poorly, to say.

If you don't achieve 3-years by 2021 you are under the 5-year rule?

DGP Wasp

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 02:36:52 PM »
Can I be a bit old-fashioned and suggest that as a Frenchman he may actually want to play for France in the future??  Which would make conjecture over residency academic.

Tervueren

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 04:09:17 PM »
You just had to spoil the debate by being blatantly sensible :) :)

welsh wasp

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Re: Tibo Flament
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 05:14:10 PM »
And why are already worrying about him leaving. Let’s just enjoy what a positive surprise he has been.
Well done Dai for funding him & putting him into the first squad so quickly.