OT - England coaching set up

[mike909]

Noticed in piece in the Grauniad that Jones has lost:

Scott Wisemantel - attack coach (off to the Aussies its thought) credited with England looking sharper over the last 18 months
Neal Hatley - scrum coach (back at Bath)
Steve Borthwick  - forwards coach (as soon as replacement found though rumoured to be in for the 6Ns)

Plus its estimated another 25 coaches/backroom staff have left during his tenure.

Rather worrisome from a forward looking perspective. I guess we'll see!

[BG]

I think its natural for coaches to move on after the WC. It will be interesting to see who EJ tries to sign up.

[baldpaul101]

I don't actually think its an issue.
EJ would say that he likes to freshen up his coaching staff regularly as he believes it prevents complacency & gives the players fresh voices & ideas all the time.

It has been said that he is always looking at different coaches & sports for fresh ideas so it may even be true rather than EJ spin.

[mike909]

You guys have more confidence than me. I don't think lots of people left for refreshment purposes!

[BG]

You guys have more confidence than me. I don't think lots of people left for refreshment purposes!

I wonder if Kennedy, formerly of London Irish, would be interested getting back into a higher profile role.

[Hymenoptera]

You guys have more confidence than me. I don't think lots of people left for refreshment purposes!

I agree Mike, Gustard left just before a world cup..says it all.
No one benefits from this amount of churn

[mike909]

You guys have more confidence than me. I don't think lots of people left for refreshment purposes!

I wonder if Kennedy, formerly of London Irish, would be interested getting back into a higher profile role.

Any coach will wait to find what Jones' wants to do. If its 2 years only, its almost the worst option for any coach as a new head coach in 2 years time may want a very different focus. I'd prefer 4 or zero for Jones.

I also think the churn may make coaches think twice as well.

[baldpaul101]

People view of EJ is colouring they way they view this.

If you are a fan, he's keeping the players on their toes with new opinions & ideas constantly coming in and challenging the players.

If you are not a fan, then its a sign that he's driving coaches away & can't keep a stable team in place.

As no one on this thread are either a coach or player who's worked under him, its hard to say which is correct.


I am sure he will have no shortage of coaches willing to come and work under him, given he must be the most experienced coach in world rugby at the moment?

[mike909]

That's all true.

However, the key point for me is is whether doing just another two years likely to attract/repel  the best coaches?

[baldpaul101]

Fair question Mike, but given most of his coaching appointments have been relatively short term anyway, will it make a difference?

If my memory serves on Borthwick started with him yes?

[Shugs]

The guy that really seemed to effect a change was Mitchell. Apart from anything else it opens your eyes to how many backroom staff there are - it's bamboozling nowadays.

[mike909]

Borthwick was from the start

Re backroom staff - 31 went to the RWC

I saw an article that 25 had left over 4 years - might or might not be excessive.

[BG]

Fair question Mike, but given most of his coaching appointments have been relatively short term anyway, will it make a difference?

If my memory serves on Borthwick started with him yes?

Borthwick was with EJ when EJ was in charge of Japan, so Borthwick followed EJ to join the England setup

He's going to Leicester next but I think as a coach not a DoR

[mike909]

He has a contract at Tigers - who apparently are somewhat worried he might need an interim prior to being released