Rumours thread

[HDAWG]

Brad is a good player, but Willis is better. In addition we're likely promoting academy talent. Also Shields is expensive for what he is.

A significant loss but again more funds to be spent more wisely.

I can see him going to Northampton, he and Boyd have a good working relationship...

[RBB]

I wonder which of the rumoured soon to be ex EAs, we and everyone else will be linked with? Williams we know is Scarlets bound.

There is some Twitter supposition than some of the first team registered players who haven't played so far this season will be released, Rhodes and Figallo mentioned, of course it may be supposition based on the fact they have to allegedly trim the wage bill mid season, based on the returning CEO's comments?

[Steve from Cov]

Would be really disappointed to lose Brad. I'm not sure how much he'll be included in the EPS moving forward with the emergences of Ludlam, Willis and Ben Earl (getting predictably hyped up). So Brad could potentially be available a lot more than assumed when we first signed him

I think Brad would be a great shout for Captain next season. In the absence of Launchbury, he's exactly the on field leader we've been craving. Yes YY and Willis made a devastating partnership, but can't play every game together. Just look at Bath, it's taken them 2 years to get their first choice backrow playing together due to injuries. So I don't want to dismiss Brad based just on one partnership. We're a better squad with Brad in it than out of it so I would say he's worth retaining

If we lost Brad I'd be actually pretty gutted.

+1
Good captain material from what I have seen on him. Some have suggested Willis. Willis is excellent player and is best to focus on that. Also Captain needs to be both repected AND liked by the other players.

+1.
We need to retain as many high quality back row operators as possible.
Jack’s playing style means he is likely to get injured again very soon so we need others to step in when necessary. Back row players are best rotated to allow for some recovery time.

[Shugs]

I'd fight tooth and nail to keep Shields who, for me, is a fantastic player. Modern day rugby requires you to have at least two good options in all positions and at 6 we currently have it. It's very shortsighted to promote the idea that we can jettison Shields because Willis is better. Willis will never play all games and also covers seven. We should be trying to keep Shields (who for me is worth the cash) and trying to replicate our strength at 6 in other positions.

[HDAWG]

We should keep good players, but Shields is not worth the money. He's very expensive for what he actually is. Good player but very expensive.

And Injury prone. Which-if we want someone to be available when Jack's injured- isn't a wise substitute.

[Shugs]

We should keep good players, but Shields is not worth the money. He's very expensive for what he actually is. Good player but very expensive.

And Injury prone. Which-if we want someone to be available when Jack's injured- isn't a wise substitute.

Unfortunately Willis is very injury prone too. That's why we need both.

[westwaleswasp]

Young
Willis
Carr
Willis
Ash
Vialanu
Shields.
Healthy roster isn't it? On value terms whatever we pay Young and Willis it is not enough.
Question is what do we have on the rank ready to step up and be all signed up, will Young be with us next year? What are the relative salaries? Without that info I would find it hard to judge Shields.

I would say he has done well for us, but is not 'fantastic' thus far. It is a strong word. That adjective applies to Willis snr, Young, maybe Carr, but I can't see Brad as fantastic just yet. Valuable, yes.
 I guess the other question is what do we do with the money saved? Invest at lock, lh, 12?
Too many variables involved for my liking. I guess we will have to see what transpires....

[Neils]

I guess we will have to see what transpires....

Yes because none of us knows the relative wages or contract positions (except Dai saying that YY is out at the end of this season).

[Old Geezer]

We seem to have a knack of signing players who are either injured when they join us or, for one reason or another, don't play much for us before they move on.  Alapati, Shields (possibly), that prop who had an attitude problem a few years ago  and others whose names I cannot recall offhand because I am of a certain age.  Others will be able to list them better than I.

[Rory87]

Talking hypothetically then.... if we did let Shields go, based on the fact we don't feel he's worth the salary (not my opinion might I add)…. what sort of replacement do we get in...?

If we get a player who we deem is worthy of that salary, who are the realistic proposals and what guarantees do we have that they will be available more often and perform better? That's a genuine question not a arsy response to anyone!

If we opt to go for a lesser calibre player and reallocate the salary to other parts of the squad, what happens when Willis and/or Young get called up internationally or get injured?... suddenly our backrow looks a lot different in terms of 'calibre'.

As someone mentioned above the likelihood but rather the desire to have both Willis and Young playing at the same time needs to be considered. They offer us something incredible, but I agree that it would be better to manage their game time and not burn them out together. For that you to rotate them with each other on occasion and for that we need a Shields type player.

On paper the backrow looks healthy and with a lot of depth meaning perhaps on the face of it we don't need Shields.... but when you factor in the reality of injury, player rotation throughout the season, international call-ups, different game plans... you need more than just your starting lineup and a bench player. For that reason, I think we need Shields to stay.

[matelot22]

It has been a constant criticism for some time that we lack on field leadership. That being the case, I'm puzzled that anyone would be keen to see Shields move on.

[Rory87]

I completely agree matelot22.

I would be very happy to secure Brad for an extended contract and name him as captain next season. I think Saints would be gaining a really good signing if they manage to get him.

Given this is a Rumours Thread and not a Brad Shields Thread... are there any other rumours knocking about to divert conversation?

[backdoc]

IMO Leadership is not simply about identifying a hero to lead from the front.

It requires trust between the players and that comes with game time.

We have had a high turnover of players which has made this a weakness, and now that we have an Academy producing players, leadership/followership [if there is such a word which I doubt] will - er - hopefully follow.

[matelot22]

IMO Leadership is not simply about identifying a hero to lead from the front.

It requires trust between the players and that comes with game time.

We have had a high turnover of players which has made this a weakness, and now that we have an Academy producing players, leadership/followership [if there is such a word which I doubt] will - er - hopefully follow.

I agree to some extent, but I'm not really talking about one leader in a LBND mould. Those kind of people are rare and truly exceptional, after 28 years in the forces I have only come across a few of those. I'm looking more at a leadership group, which I think Brad can have an important role in. He's experienced in playing terms and captaincy, so with Joe, Gopps and the other players we know fit with the leadership tag, I think he is an important player. Many have said Willis will be captain one day, I think he probably will, but at the moment I don't see him being part of the senior leader group.

[mike909]

I agree re Lol, and he was not alone in a team of leaders.

Re Shields - experienced SR Capt with a good 'Canes team that has the potential to contribute to a leadership team and be a key leader.

However well I think that Carr, Willis or Young play as individuals, they haven't got that back ground and tbh, just need to be allowed to get on with playing within a team and leadership and coaching structure that allows them to use their talents to the advantage of the team and to develop at players.

A leadership group from a player POV is important, but it can only IMO, have a material effect, if the players and the coaching/DoR team are on the same page and are committed to how to play (most of the time!) Whilst Brad could be a really good Captain and leadership resource  - we will need to start looking less like talented individuals and more like a team group that understands and buys into the plan/plans