England 23

[ricohchezwasp]

A week of golfing in Turkey will ensure I miss the first two rounds

Are you playing in Belek, which courses and hotel, we go in March for second year in a row

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Quite enjoying this. Seems a bit of stroppy Sarrie's arrogance is creeping into the side.

[mike909]

Quite enjoying this. Seems a bit of stroppy Sarrie's arrogance is creeping into the side.

Have the England team been introduced? Farrell to this point looks like he can't quite believe that he can't catch....Regardless of final result, Curry is not an 8 and Lawes is not a flanker and without Manu there is little go forwards

First half - credit to Sean Edwards and others for showing what is possible, regardless of the result.

[backdoc]

I had £45 on France to win at 2/1. After 30 mins I bet £17 on England to win at 5/1 to cover my original bet. Bet365 cashed me out my original bet with full winnings.

Has the algorithm failed, or is there some special on for the 6 Nations?

[mike909]

Quite enjoying this. Seems a bit of stroppy Sarrie's arrogance is creeping into the side.

Farrell shouting at line  - quite funny

[Vespula Vulgaris]

God I cant bear Itoje. How many cynical penalties is he gonna giveaway before people stop talking about him like he's some kind of rugby messiah?

[mike909]

Brainless display from him, so far. Be a good game to win from here!

[Shugs]

Selection cost us. We'd just sorted 6 and 7 and we break it up. Are we really admitting we only have one 8? Opposition sides must be salivating at putting the high ball on Daly at every chance. Ford, Farrell created nothing and looked too soon for Furbank. Youngs slow and predictable as normal and threw in missed tackles into the bargain. May made it look better than it was.

[mike909]

Selection cost us. We'd just sorted 6 and 7 and we break it up. Are we really admitting we only have one 8? Opposition sides must be salivating at putting the high ball on Daly at every chance. Ford, Farrell created nothing and looked too soon for Furbank. Youngs slow and predictable as normal and threw in missed tackles into the bargain. May made it look better than it was.

+1

Scoreline flatters England a little who looked for too long to be bereft of ideas, confidence or drive. Looked mechanical and as if just sticking to the plan was good enough. And having a plan that basically looked like "get the ball to Manu" and drive over the top, probably isn't enough....

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I am not overly bothered that we didn't win. I did see the 23 selected and thought, 'No chance.'

And so it transpired.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

It feels weird having supported the white shirts for decades, but I actually rather enjoyed that.

The French nine is something a little but special, and we have Youngs...

[Old Geezer]

Shugs, you wrote my post for me!!!!  We had no ball carrier at 8 so all our scrums were predictable.  Youngs was past his best two seasons ago.  Just cannot see how he survives and, especially, how he starts.  IMHO Ewers is not International standard.   Daly?  Just very ordinary I am afraid.  Furbank is talent but maybe a bit too soon for him. 

I know it is heresy, but I don't actually think Billy is our best option at 8.  He is another who is not what he was a couple of seasons ago before his injuries.  Hughes (although still penalty prone) is in good form and then there is Dombrandt who IMHO is the best at the moment.  I think Wilson is injured.

Sarries players didn't look their best and I wonder how much their travails at club has affected them.

I could go on but I suspect many posters will instead.

[Heathen]

England failed in a number of areas today.

1. Any team that underestimates what SE can do for a defence is naieve.

2. Individual handling errors and lineout failures.

3. Game plan. Should have put the ball behind the advancing defence - that would have forced France to to played from deep.

4. Team selection.

5. Failure to convert significant number of opportunities in the Red Zone.

6. World Cup final hangover.

Eddie has much to do before the trip to Murrayfield.

The French have found their Va Va Vroom and if they can build on today, could challenge for the title.

[Davidabricot]

This defeat is normal. Each world cup's year has to be viewed carefully. The French team is new, carefree, but I bet that problems will happen soon. Galthié makes troubles everywhere. He is a despot. Toulouse already started to complain about its selected players.

[mike909]

My view (FWIW...) is that all sets of players and coaching teams have a finite life. We've seen that at Wasps, Sir Ian for one, but Sir Ian did have a higher peak than England have managed.

I did wonder - writing elsewhere - if this group of players and Jones might have come to their peak (just about) at the RWC having had 18 months of odd form post 2018 6Ns. Some very high peaks and some terrible troughs, too often in the same game. England were too often out thought (e.g. Gatland) or failed to do the obvious when winning and "put their foot on the ball" (so to speak) like vs Scotland.

No one wins all their games and if anything England's long winning streak made matters look odd. Everyone got a little ahead of themselves and were giving Jones too many plaudits and giving Lancaster (never lost more than one 6Ns game a season) too much stick for 2015.

England have always had the ability to win any one off game (2012 vs NZ scoring 38 points) but were generally hard to beat and competitive in games they lost.

As for Jones - he has demonstrated quite well the limited effective life of a coach. His time with Aus post '03 ended with losing 8 from 9 and then the Queensland debacle.

I said the other day that England could easily be hosting Ireland, 2 games for no wins. They could murder Scotland next week - but it will be a definite test of nerves.

But even Jones can't avoid responsibility for selection - Curry and Lawes etc - or tactics by thinking he has some "unique ability" in terms of thinking or tactics.