Le freak that’s chic , Bobby B ratings

[hookender]

Out of curiosity, why do people not find a player's salary relevant to how well they play and why they should/shouldn't

Salary if definitely relevant. I can’t imagine we would be having as much discussion on Lima if he hadn’t come as a marquee player.

As you say it’s club’s choice to spend  a lot money on a few players with (expected) talent and less for each of the rest of team. Or spread the payments to get a larger squad but no real stars(probably Exeter, who are only just starting to have players picked for internationals).

Alternatively just pay a lot of players a lot of money and f**k the salary cap

[Hymenoptera]

Salary = Quality
Quality = Expectation + Results
Expectation + Results = Satisfaction

So yes its very much relevant.
If I bought a Bentley, I'd be a bit miffed if it drove like a Dacia Duster.
Someone highlighted that he makes mistakes because he is trying things...spoiler alert, anyone can try things, its the end product that counts. I can rock up at Wasps and throw a miss passes to the opposition or kick out on the full all day long,...these things are easily achieved within my skillset, its the positive impacts that you recruit and pay a player for.
He has the quality to see things for sure, but he doesn't have the quality to execute them and that makes him an average club player rather than an elite player on elite money.

I'm not knocking the guy, I like his attitude, he always gives his all, he's certainly very likeable. The problem appears that once he's been taken out of an Elite team, his star doesn't appear as bright as he or we thought it was. Maybe he needs to be in a top top team to excel, but average to above average is working.
He isn't the first and wont be the last person arriving from overseas sporting a Prada man bag that originated from Erith market.

[baldpaul101]

I would counter that by saying that he is trying things that you, or I, would never see nor contemplate. he doesn't try ridiculous speculative things, he sees things might be on, gives it a try but doesn't always get the execution right. Sometimes they come off, like Robson's try last week, sometimes they don't.

Would I prefer him to get more things right, yes of course. Would I swap him for a nice safe option who never tried anything risky or speculative, no I wouldn't

As others have said, that fact he has lost his 10 spot to a young upcoming talent & has been moved to 15 shows that the coaches know Umaga is a better option at 10 right now. The fact they haven't dropped him completely &, presumably, took up the option on his extra year shows they don't rate him as the failure some on here would have it.

[Shugs]

Yes, with a high salary comes expectation, that's sport. But you can't criticise the guy for taking the money offered. And you can't really factor it in to criticism of his play. Is it ok for the lowest paid guy at the club to have a stinker every week? Similarly if your highest paid player is just a bit better than the lowest paid you'd still play him. If Lima has a bad game that's fair enough, but the fact he's paid a lot doesn't make it a worse performance.

[HDAWG]

Yes, with a high salary comes expectation, that's sport. But you can't criticise the guy for taking the money offered. And you can't really factor it in to criticism of his play. Is it ok for the lowest paid guy at the club to have a stinker every week? Similarly if your highest paid player is just a bit better than the lowest paid you'd still play him. If Lima has a bad game that's fair enough, but the fact he's paid a lot doesn't make it a worse performance.

This is what I was looking for, very good way of putting it.

[wasps]

I'd also add that we don't know what most players are on... And to my knowledge, we don't actually know what Lima is earning - only that he was an All Black and was probably our marquee player at the time he joined.


I totally understand that there's a finite amount of money we can use to pay players and therefore paying over the odds for one means we can't pay as much to others which may affect morale of cause us to lose players that we otherwise wouldn't.
But similarly, being a marquee player would have meant his salary came from a different pot and therefore wouldn't affect what we could pay to someone like Rowlands



We don't look at other players, or coaches, and say that they don't earn a lot of money so they're allowed to perform badly.
If you're in the team, you're expected to perform to a certain level regardless of what you earn.
If you can't perform to that level you shouldn't have been selected in the first place - that's a selection problem as much as a player problem

[Heathen]

Going back to Alfie and his comments about playing at centre. This article was in Rugby World on Dec 1.

Wasps hooker/back-row Alfie Barbeary

Date of birth 5 October 2000 Born Banbury, Oxon Position Hooker/back-row Club Wasps Country England

When did you first play rugby?

I was eight, at Banbury rugby club. My mum’s side of the family are very much into rugby but my dad was more of a footballer, so from a young age I was hoping to be the next Ronaldo!

Then my older brother started playing rugby with a family friend and I was a bit jealous, so I went as well. I loved it and it went from there.

Any childhood heroes other than Ronaldo?

I looked up to people like Ma’a Nonu and (Mathieu) Bastareaud.

So you were a centre…

Yes. I started there at U10s and have played there most of my life. When I went to my first Wasps session at U15s, the head of the academy, Matt Davies, asked what position I was and I said, “Back-row/centre.” He said, “You’re a hooker!” So I’d play hooker for Wasps but at school I’d play centre.

I played through the age grades with England and unfortunately they didn’t see me as a centre either!

I’m happy to play anywhere and have played back-row too. I’ve got used to the front row now and I’m starting to enjoy it more and more. It’s how I can make it suit me really.

What are your strengths?

My ball-carries are my strongest point. Then my kick-pass-run options when I have the ball and my decision-making with that.

Did you expect to have such a big impact last season?

It’s been a strange one. I tore my quad and hamstring, which wasn’t the start I wanted to my first professional season. I got back just before Christmas for an A League game but tore my hamstring again, then the week I was due back was lockdown!

Coming back after lockdown, I got told I’d been promoted to the first team and I was lucky enough to make my debut and play more games. It’s been surreal.

What are your goals for this season?

I want to be a more regular first-team player for Wasps and earn my stripes there. I’m happy to play anywhere but my end goal is to be the No 1 hooker.

Who has been the biggest influence on your career?

Mark Horrocks, my first coach at Banbury, was very influential. Then as I got older, Peter Walton and John Fletcher, who gave me confidence to play how I want to play. How it shouldn’t be unusual for a forward to kick it or offload.

RW Verdict: Barbeary marked his first Premiership start with a hat-trick against Leicester – when playing out of position at blindside! His long-term future is at hooker and he has the rounded skill-set we often see from Kiwi front-rowers. England coach Eddie Jones clearly likes what he sees having called up Barbeary ahead of the final Autumn Nations Cup match against France.

[Hymenoptera]

Yes, with a high salary comes expectation, that's sport. But you can't criticise the guy for taking the money offered. And you can't really factor it in to criticism of his play. Is it ok for the lowest paid guy at the club to have a stinker every week? Similarly if your highest paid player is just a bit better than the lowest paid you'd still play him. If Lima has a bad game that's fair enough, but the fact he's paid a lot doesn't make it a worse performance.

I agree with you and my response was less about how/if the two interject and more about what you expect to get with a 500k salary, and in Lima's case how far removed his ability is from what his salary is and everyone's expectation was.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

It’s been a strange one. I tore my quad and hamstring, which wasn’t the start I wanted to my first professional season. I got back just before Christmas for an A League game but tore my hamstring again, then the week I was due back was lockdown!

Looks like lockdown did him a big favour.  Those are the sort of injuries that really benefit from rest and professional sportsmen rarely get the fully healed and carry “niggles” for some time.

(I am not a Doc or Physio just an observer sportsmen and someone who always pushes his own recoveries against the advice of physios I pay for and never fully recovers 😁)

[Shugs]

Yes, with a high salary comes expectation, that's sport. But you can't criticise the guy for taking the money offered. And you can't really factor it in to criticism of his play. Is it ok for the lowest paid guy at the club to have a stinker every week? Similarly if your highest paid player is just a bit better than the lowest paid you'd still play him. If Lima has a bad game that's fair enough, but the fact he's paid a lot doesn't make it a worse performance.

I agree with you and my response was less about how/if the two interject and more about what you expect to get with a 500k salary, and in Lima's case how far removed his ability is from what his salary is and everyone's expectation was.

Yes, it's a shame but I agree, if I were Wasps management I'd have been looking for a better return on the investment and looking ahead I'd be spending that money elsewhere.

[hookender]

Yes, with a high salary comes expectation, that's sport. But you can't criticise the guy for taking the money offered. And you can't really factor it in to criticism of his play. Is it ok for the lowest paid guy at the club to have a stinker every week? Similarly if your highest paid player is just a bit better than the lowest paid you'd still play him. If Lima has a bad game that's fair enough, but the fact he's paid a lot doesn't make it a worse performance.

I agree with you and my response was less about how/if the two interject and more about what you expect to get with a 500k salary, and in Lima's case how far removed his ability is from what his salary is and everyone's expectation was.

Yes, it's a shame but I agree, if I were Wasps management I'd have been looking for a better return on the investment and looking ahead I'd be spending that money elsewhere.

That’s always the gamble when signing a ‘star’ player.

In a similar vein look what happened when Kurtley Beale signed a contract with us,same week did his leg in before even starting for us ,so didn’t have him for first season. Assume we had to honour salary and possibly might have had insurance. I hoped that he would have extended contract to give us time lost , but went straight away

[Heathen]

JTA when he joined was average as a prop in the Prem. He admitted that he had problems adapting. I will give him full credit for turning it round though. I think that Neil Fowkes hhas had a lot to do with it.

[Neils]

JTA when he joined was average as a prop in the Prem. He admitted that he had problems adapting. I will give him full credit for turning it round though. I think that Neil Fowkes hhas had a lot to do with it.

Hopefully with the Championship not starting until March we can keep Neil involved for a little longer.

[JonnyD]

Is he still with us?
Didn’t know if he’d returned to Nottingham before the start of this new season or has he come back to us recently?

[Neils]

Thought I saw him at a recent home game.