Rowlands

[Neils]

Also remember Wales and Scotland have far far fewer rugby players to choose from - especially Scotland where football outnumbers rugby by a vast amount both in players and in particular clubs. Scotland may have the correct view in advocating players leave to get a more rounded experience (viz 4 internationals in the Exeter 23).

[Mellie]

Josh Lewsey is 3 quarters Welsh! There's a picture of him as a child in his autobiography wearing a Welsh rugby shirt.

I'm half Welsh with a Welsh surname, was born and always lived in England (like Will Rowlands and Steve Bates). But I spent every summer as a child in Wales with my grandparents, several aunts and uncles and lots of cousins. Being that my mum was an only child and that Wales were infinitely better than England at rugby in those days made me it easy to identify as Welsh.

People with Welsh roots are often drawn to rugby as it is regarded as the national game. It certainly did with me.

I was also drawn to Wasps, as my dad had played for 1 of the teams in the 50s, though I did flirt with London Welsh for a time as they had a very good fixture list of Welsh clubs. But the friendliness of people at Wasps was the deciding factor, which was lucky as they were also my closest 1st class club.

[Montague Withnail]

Montague: There is a long history of Welsh qualified English players and English qualified Welsh players being targeted by either Wales or England so don't just blame it on Wales. Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris were qualified for Wales but decided to target England. There have been other that I can't remember.

Different era that though really, with none of the same issues.

There have been a couple of England players who have played for Welsh regions (Morgan, Underhill) but both came home well before they were selected.

I’m not having a go at Wales, but a few years ago they were winning Grand Slams without needing to look for Welsh qualified players in England. I don’t know what’s changed but it is creating a difficult situation now with the numbers so high. Apparently Randall might get selected for the 6Ns squad as well so there’s another one.

[Neils]

Montague: There is a long history of Welsh qualified English players and English qualified Welsh players being targeted by either Wales or England so don't just blame it on Wales. Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris were qualified for Wales but decided to target England. There have been other that I can't remember.

Different era that though really, with none of the same issues.

There have been a couple of England players who have played for Welsh regions (Morgan, Underhill) but both came home well before they were selected.

I’m not having a go at Wales, but a few years ago they were winning Grand Slams without needing to look for Welsh qualified players in England. I don’t know what’s changed but it is creating a difficult situation now with the numbers so high. Apparently Randall might get selected for the 6Ns squad as well so there’s another one.

Fewer players as a small country and the age profile of the winning team. Gatland alluded to a changing of the guard. Only a few like AWJ are hanging on.

[hookender]

I can get that they need to look outside their borders to find the best available. But I’m just annoyed that clubs have invested time and money to bring players to that level and then they are effectively stolen

[Montague Withnail]

Montague: There is a long history of Welsh qualified English players and English qualified Welsh players being targeted by either Wales or England so don't just blame it on Wales. Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris were qualified for Wales but decided to target England. There have been other that I can't remember.

Different era that though really, with none of the same issues.

There have been a couple of England players who have played for Welsh regions (Morgan, Underhill) but both came home well before they were selected.

I’m not having a go at Wales, but a few years ago they were winning Grand Slams without needing to look for Welsh qualified players in England. I don’t know what’s changed but it is creating a difficult situation now with the numbers so high. Apparently Randall might get selected for the 6Ns squad as well so there’s another one.

Fewer players as a small country and the age profile of the winning team. Gatland alluded to a changing of the guard. Only a few like AWJ are hanging on.

Fair enough, just making the point that they were more (and very) successful before when focused on developing players from their own regions.

Anyway, I was really trying make a point about the conflict between the WRU and the PRL, rather than have a pi**ing contest about England and Wales.

My point is, it was there in the past because premiership clubs actively sought out Welsh internationals, whereas now it’s there mainly for the opposite reason - the WRU seeking out premiership players. My point is, the rule introduced by the WRU to deal with the former situation seemed very fair but now seems slightly unfair in the latter situation.

Maybe it’s time for the PRL and WRU to sit down and negotiate a formal agreement?

[westwaleswasp]

Ross Moriarty being one who played for England U20 and Glaws before heading back. Similarly Underhill (who was born in the USA iirc)was at Swansea uni and signed to the Ospreys before heading back the other way. Must be loads of examples of this. Underhill was very much on the England radar at Uni whilst with the Ospreys, went on tour to Arg before even playing for Bath.
Seems a pity they can't sit down and sort it a little better so that settled players stay settled and challenge for international honours, whilst avoiding poaching and protecting clubs/regions to an extent....   

[Montague Withnail]

Ross Moriarty being one who played for England U20 and Glaws before heading back. Similarly Underhill (who was born in the USA iirc)was at Swansea uni and signed to the Ospreys before heading back the other way. Must be loads of examples of this. Underhill was very much on the England radar at Uni whilst with the Ospreys, went on tour to Arg before even playing for Bath.
Seems a pity they can't sit down and sort it a little better so that settled players stay settled and challenge for international honours, whilst avoiding poaching and protecting clubs/regions to an extent....

I think Moriarty and Underhill were always understood to be Welsh and English respectively. I’m pretty sure both Gloucester and Ospreys understood that and were happy with the arrangement (Gloucester in the case of Moriarty - I’m sure they weren’t happy about losing Underhill).

[backdoc]

Completely agree, WWW

With so many other uncertainties - form, selection, injury, it is ridiculous to insist a player moves club, house etc when there is no certainty he will then play for Wales. There is probably a law against it if you look hard enough.

It is not as though Coventry is that far from Wales [120 miles to Cardiff - that is a bloody site less than Graham Dawe used to drive for training at his club].

[welsh wasp]

The curious case in all this is Tomas Francis who has had his contract “extended” at Exeter so he can continue to play for Wales. Could Wasps have done that with Rowland?

[hookender]

The curious case in all this is Tomas Francis who has had his contract “extended” at Exeter so he can continue to play for Wales. Could Wasps have done that with Rowland?

I think you can extend a contract once ,which we have with Rowlands, but you can’t extend an extension.

[westwaleswasp]

Ross Moriarty being one who played for England U20 and Glaws before heading back. Similarly Underhill (who was born in the USA iirc)was at Swansea uni and signed to the Ospreys before heading back the other way. Must be loads of examples of this. Underhill was very much on the England radar at Uni whilst with the Ospreys, went on tour to Arg before even playing for Bath.
Seems a pity they can't sit down and sort it a little better so that settled players stay settled and challenge for international honours, whilst avoiding poaching and protecting clubs/regions to an extent....

I think Moriarty and Underhill were always understood to be Welsh and English respectively. I’m pretty sure both Gloucester and Ospreys understood that and were happy with the arrangement (Gloucester in the case of Moriarty - I’m sure they weren’t happy about losing Underhill).

Underhill yes, indeed. It was a bit of a surprise he developed so well at the Ospreys, according to local reports. Moriarty was also known to be Welsh- you can't get more classically South Welsh than Morriston comp and Gorseinon rfc- don't tell the Scarlets' fans - but I read that there was a hope from England that he may go down the English route as he had started down it. No idea if that was true. He was with Glaws for ages. My wife works with a couple of relatives, she could ask but I suspect the answer might not be printable!

[westwaleswasp]

Completely agree, WWW

With so many other uncertainties - form, selection, injury, it is ridiculous to insist a player moves club, house etc when there is no certainty he will then play for Wales. There is probably a law against it if you look hard enough.

It is not as though Coventry is that far from Wales [120 miles to Cardiff - that is a bloody site less than Graham Dawe used to drive for training at his club].

Thanks, there are such strong ties between the clubs and countries- remember the old 99 season I think- fingers crossed they work something out....

[Montague Withnail]

Ross Moriarty being one who played for England U20 and Glaws before heading back. Similarly Underhill (who was born in the USA iirc)was at Swansea uni and signed to the Ospreys before heading back the other way. Must be loads of examples of this. Underhill was very much on the England radar at Uni whilst with the Ospreys, went on tour to Arg before even playing for Bath.
Seems a pity they can't sit down and sort it a little better so that settled players stay settled and challenge for international honours, whilst avoiding poaching and protecting clubs/regions to an extent....

I think Moriarty and Underhill were always understood to be Welsh and English respectively. I’m pretty sure both Gloucester and Ospreys understood that and were happy with the arrangement (Gloucester in the case of Moriarty - I’m sure they weren’t happy about losing Underhill).

Underhill yes, indeed. It was a bit of a surprise he developed so well at the Ospreys, according to local reports. Moriarty was also known to be Welsh- you can't get more classically South Welsh than Morriston comp and Gorseinon rfc- don't tell the Scarlets' fans - but I read that there was a hope from England that he may go down the English route as he had started down it. No idea if that was true. He was with Glaws for ages. My wife works with a couple of relatives, she could ask but I suspect the answer might not be printable!

Yup, Moriarty did play England U20s but even then I don’t think he hid the fact he wanted to play for Wales, and with his family background no one was surprised or bothered by that - and back then we were desperately short of flankers and England would have probably been an easier option for selection.

I did see an article a Welsh mate forwarded me in WOL counting down Underhill’s time left to qualify for Wales in days 😆. I deeply suspect it was tongue in cheek for a bit of a wind up. Underhill was a probably a surprise in Wales but if you follow the England pathway squads (which I do), he wasn’t. He captained England U18s.

There’s a few examples around at the moment of players who have come through premiership academies but have been obviously and committedly Welsh such as Louis Rees Zammitt and Ioan Lloyd. A bit like with Thiebaud Flament in those situations the clubs know they are going to end up losing those players in the end but do it anyway, so I can’t say that’s an issue. Exeter have even poached a young lad Christ Tshiunza into their academy from Wales so they must be accepting of that eventual fate.

It would have been nice to keep Thiebaud at least another season or two though 

[Chunky24]

There are still some oddities in the pathway rules, Alex Dombrandt played for Wales u20 but was totally ineligible for the senior side as u20 rules allowed students at university to represent that country at that level. Even if the Wales u20 was their capture side then, which it wasn't, he still couldn't of played for the senior side unless completing residence.