TRP

[Trevs Big Tackle]

It's not the job of a random rugby club to punish drink driving offenses. That's what the courts are for.

[baldpaul101]

I must of missed the bit where Stooke has been found guilty of anything......

[Rossm]

I must of missed the bit where Stooke has been found guilty of anything......

DD, as far as I am aware, is one of the few criminal charges where you are, to all intents and purposes, guilty until proven innocent. By failing a breath/blood test and then being charged, then you are in effect guilty.

[baldpaul101]

then you are in effect guilty.

except that he hasn't yet been convicted of anything, nor are the details known...

But why wait for facts, lets have a trial by social media & lynch him anyway!! Seems to be the way to go these days...

[Rifleman Harris]

Perhaps a different way of looking at it would be...did any of these have any further issues after joining the club?  Surely, if the club can support people to improve that is a good thing? I don't recall Fiver having any more issues - and didn't Powell have one more run in where he may or may not have been responsible for what happened (and he left pretty sharpish afterwards if I recall correctly).

[Sting]

Sorry baldpaul, you might have missed the bit where he pleaded guilty to breaking the civid lockdown restrictions thus putting his team mates at risk of infection, his club at risk of forfeiting games and his owner of losing income. He has indeed only been charged with drink drink driving and of course that (in the absence of any contractual clauses to the contrary) is a matter for the courts and not the club.

[Trevs Big Tackle]

He's due in the magistrate's court on the 17th Feb so we might not have to wait long...

[MarleyWasp]

Did we not re-sign fiver after or during his DD case?

Yep we did.

Joe Carlisle was also serving a drink drive ban when he joined us.

[baldpaul101]

Sorry baldpaul, you might have missed the bit where he pleaded guilty to breaking the civid lockdown restrictions thus putting his team mates at risk of infection, his club at risk of forfeiting games and his owner of losing income. He has indeed only been charged with drink drink driving and of course that (in the absence of any contractual clauses to the contrary) is a matter for the courts and not the club.

nope, didn't miss that, and he deserves all the criticism he gets for his breach of the Covid rules, as does Gaby.
But I don't think anyone was suggesting he shouldn't be signed because of that, but rather because of his drink driving. if you don't want him signed for Covid breahes, I guess you would like Gaby sacked?

I prefer to wait for all the facts before deciding on my opinion, but I do understand others feel differently

[baldpaul101]

Interesting take on discipline in Japan, form the Myles Edwards thread:

"When New Zealand lock Joel Everson was arrested last year for allegedly using cocaine, his club, the Hino Red Dolphins, cancelled the rest of their season’s fixtures while the Top League suspended all matches. “Any misdemeanours and they shut the whole programme,” Blackadder said. “Guys go back to work in the factories and we just wouldn’t have rugby. There is a big difference culturally so you have to make sure you are recruiting the right people.”

If we were meeting their standards, would Bath & Wasps both be packing up for the season after JJ, Stookes & Ogrhe's miss-demeanors?   

[hookender]

Interesting take on discipline in Japan, form the Myles Edwards thread:

"When New Zealand lock Joel Everson was arrested last year for allegedly using cocaine, his club, the Hino Red Dolphins, cancelled the rest of their season’s fixtures while the Top League suspended all matches. “Any misdemeanours and they shut the whole programme,” Blackadder said. “Guys go back to work in the factories and we just wouldn’t have rugby. There is a big difference culturally so you have to make sure you are recruiting the right people.”

If we were meeting their standards, would Bath & Wasps both be packing up for the season after JJ, Stookes & Ogrhe's miss-demeanors?   

Go down that route and we would struggle to have any sport in this country!

[Horusthewasp]

Stooke has been banned from driving for 14 months after pleading guilty to drink-driving:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-56195839

Here is the RFU’s judgement into the 3 players involved in the original breach:
https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/76/76a3f403-8813-454a-8533-a03621adab67/StookeJosephBathRugbyOghreWaspsRugbyJudgmentFeb21.pdf

It mentions that “he (Stookes) admitted that on 24 January 2021 (he) shared a car with another player, from a different household, in the early hours of the morning in breach of Governmental guidance and paragraph 1.6 of Stage 2 Minimum Operating Standards.”

Given that only 3 players were involved and that Stookes & Oghre were visiting Joseph’s residence, does that mean Oghre was in Stookes’ car when it crashed?

Also I was surprised to read all 3 players appealed rather than accept the judgment on the basis that “the sanctions imposed were so excessive as to be unreasonable”. The appeal was dismissed:
https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/da/da783253-5b36-488e-b850-31ec56fb7eb3/StookeJosephBathRugbyOghreWaspsRugbyAppealJudgmentFeb21.pdf

[hookender]

I think Stooke had given Oghre a lift back home  (does Oghre still live in Bath?)wonder if Stooke had had a further drink at Oghre’s before moving on?

[wasps]

I think Stooke had given Oghre a lift back home  (does Oghre still live in Bath?)wonder if Stooke had had a further drink at Oghre’s before moving on?

Largely irrelevant.
Oghre has obviously shown poor judgement on 2 fronts.
  1) going to anyone's house
  2) getting in a car with someone who had been drinking.
His ban / punishment should reflect that and there really is little defence


Stooke too has shown very poor decision making skills, and deserves every punishment that comes his way.
As for whether we should cancel our signing of him (assuming that it's contractually possible), then it depends whether the club feel that he's taken his punishment and will learn from it.
If he's not going to learn from it, or feels that it was justified in any way, then I wouldn't want him involved with the club

[Neils]

Also on Stooke - if he lives down Bath way how does he get to Henley in Arden daily without a car. Not exactly on a major transport route.