Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Rewatched, daftly long notes.  (Read 4613 times)

Raggs

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Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« on: September 19, 2017, 12:13:40 PM »
I'm not watching our rucks for bad infringements, so bitching about the ref will likely seem one sided, but we'll see if I spot any.



Kickoff.  We lose the restart, nearly secure it but Rowlands loses it after heavy competition in the air.  Our defence gets off the line, then slows and waits to see what the carrier will do, rather than just charging at him.

00.56 Our defence has been good, but it's inconsistent, sometimes we come up fast as a line, other times the first 4-5 men come up fast, but the rest are slower. We do end up forcing them to kick it though, overall good defence.

1.20 WLR kicks in field, and Quins are able to just run back to where they started, just outside our 22.  Simpson and Wade struggling to stop Marchant.  Looks like we gave away a penalty for offside at the kick anyway.  Overall a very poor exit, but not sure what WLR should have done differently except try and kick better (not easy under the circumstances).  Our forwards should have been working harder to get back, would have meant they'd have been put onside sooner.

2.54 Good length restart allows us to hit the catcher. And good fortune (rather than skill), sees it come back on our side.  We get very messy, WLR shovels on poor ball, Cips does the same, and we end up with an intercept.  We were playing a pen advantage though, so going for the miracle ball (which Cips tried, not WLR) wasn't a bad idea, assuming he knew about the advantage (I'd give the benefit of the doubt there, commentator certainly thinks he did).

4.30 Danny gets the 3 points.

4.50 Much better restart, mostly because quins choose to go long and don't pressure.  Gaby gets tunnel vision as we try and run it out our 22, and targets Marchant, ends up dropping the ball after the tackle/rip.  If he'd gone to the outside to try and draw Yarde, he could have passed to Daly, and at the very least Wade would have been free to run a good way.  Poor decision making and execution there.

6.45 Is Horwill 10? He's 10 from Danny, but I don't think he's 10 from the mark, which is a couple of meters ahead of DC.

8.15m Our defensive line is a mess. It's a great chance to blitz, but we're all over the place.  Worst is Rowlands, which I guess sort of makes sense.

9.28. Ref misses a knock on there.  Reider is injured from a phase or two back. Defensive line still looks messy, but defence is mostly solid.

9.34 I don't know what it is about Marchant, but he's just skipped away from Gaby, and brushed off Daly. Thankfully Daly gets back to snatch the pass out the air and kick it clear.  WLR smartly sprints forwards bringing our players onside. Reider is still down.

10.04 Launch puts a big hit on Brown as he gets the ball and causes the knock on.  Arguable that Simpson knocks on there, would have gone back to our scrum.  Cips with a big kick that really should have gone out. But Quins come back at us. Would have been better for us if Simpsons knock on had been seen and we'd got the scrum, Reider would have been off and we'd have had 15 men.

10.34 Daly sees sense and sends a kick skidding out. Reider off, Hask on.

11.04 Why does Simpson slow that?  Our players may not be perfectly placed, but you can see in the time he's looking back with hands on the ball, to when he passes, 3 Quins get back around the corner.  That allows everyone to drift out further and blitz up harder.

11.45 How does the ref watch Sinckler take Cruse out off the ball, around the back of the tackle (no one is rucking), along with the AR, and nothing happens?

12.05 WLR not having a great game so far, a few wayward passes.  Cips is picking runners nicely I feel.  Daly with the half break, a few offloads, great work from JCW, Cruse just doesn't hear/see Joe on the right, and Watson has cut back inside, if Watson had held his line Cruse was looking for him.  Yarde doesn't come close to releasing Cruse and takes the ball. Bad miss by the ref.

13.03 High tackle on Hughes missed.  But then lovely interplay from our backs for Wades try.  Cruse again with the nice pullback pass (mentioned it in the last game I did this). Cips commits Mrchant just right before releasing Watson.

14.40 Short restart from Quins, well taken by Daly.

15.20 How on earth was that not called as a knock on? That sort of drop is called every time. 

17.00 Defence going well here I feel, force them into a kick.  WLR with a good clearing kick.

17.44 The lineouts are arguably veering on not straight, but it's not bad enough to be given, fair enough.

19.00 Marler is being a niggling git, but Hask should know better than to react like that. Officials miss the water spray. Think it's the right decision overall, Marler just about stays on the right side of getting a card.

21.02. OK the ref yells at him, so he should have stopped, but what exactly did Cruse get pinged for?  He came in over the tackled player (which is the gate), and he kicked the ball backwards. Side entry apparently.  Launch get's sent away by the ref, after being told to lead by example (what did he do??) Ward get's told to mind his language seemingly swore at Launch?  Really don't get anything from the ref.

23.01 OK, rewatching now it's rather apparent that Browns flick to Yarde for the try was forward. Still, close enough that whilst I don't like it, I can accept it being given.

24.07 The ref is not allowed to go to the TMO to see if the ball was taken back, I'm sure of it.  He does, and the TMO gets it wrong. Clifford clearly rolls over the 22.  Bad decision from the TMO, bad from the ref who isn't allowed to do that.

25.50.  Watson... that's the biggest blown chance.  Though honestly, I think Yarde gets him out before he'd have put it down, tough to say though.

28.41 Cips missed the kick, but we've been attacking really well for a while, and got this penalty attempt, all whilst down to 14.  Pretty impressive.

29.10 WLR with a knock on from an easy catch.  Not a good game for him I feel.

30.23. How is that not a penalty for holding on?

30.33. Another potential knock on that most refs would have given.

31.30 Smith looked to give a forward pass there, but again it's close, and it goes into touch, so who cares.  Overall our defence has done well, forcing them into making more desperate plays.

32 Not even half time and 2 of our bench are on the pitch.

31.56. How has the ref not blown Quins up for coming across, their jumper is in our line pushing our guy out the way ffs! Instead he resets.  We're exactly where we were for the whole setup.

32.50 Daly over kicks, claims it came off a hand, ref doesn't check (correctly so, but that's a real stick in the throat decision considering the earlier one), we lose 40 yards and possession.

33.30 Nice switch back inside, Cips is taken out by Roberts and held back, Yarde through the hole and thankfully sends it forwards.  Ref calls over the captains, and starts tell Joe off, then remembers to make sure it includes both, about someone looking for a response will get penalised... The annoying thing is, it looks like Yarde starts it, and it's us seemingly the targets of the telling off.

34.39 Care's tackle looks to ride high, but not given, happy enough, I don't like the really soft ones being given.

37.18 another arguable high on Launch, but again, not one I'd want to be given.

37.26 Simpson a bit slow, but worse, a hard pass at Cruse's head, if you slow it down, you have to be accurate.  We lose it.

37.40 Sinckler again, taking players out nowhere near the ruck, it was gentle, but still.

38.07 Good hit by Joe, caused Smith to rush the pass.

38.30. Hughes goes forward off the scrum, Joe clears it quick, AJ on the charge, more go forwards ball, a bit slower than necessary, and that pause gives the defence

38.46 I know we've gone backwards, but Joe is needlessly organising, and all it does is allow quins to setup better.

38.52 Cruse gives Sinckler a taste of his own medicine, Sink doesn't like it! Takes him out away from the ruck.  Simpson's box kicks have been good.

39.45 We lose concentration, and let them through the middle, Cips very cheekily grabs the arm and causes the knock on.

Half time.  Messy as hell, we've blown some chances, as have they.

Restart. Sinckler clearly blocks Daly from getting to the tackler. Often not given, but annoying nonetheless.

40.47 Just a word about Cruse, his lineout throws have all been down the middle, and all looked very good.

40.55 For moaning about the ref not giving Thompson a turnover, here Ward had a fair claim on one too.

41.20 Bad drop by JCW.

42.40 Walker try, commentary blame that on Wade, but he's just seen Gaby hit Robshaw and couldn't know he'd get across. I do agree that Walker needed to be taken out though.

45.20 Nice idea from Cips, just off with the execution. 

45.40ish, Lovely from Rowlands, traps the Quins player perfectly, getting us the pen, as opposed to the ref probably just letting them slow our ball.

Ridiculous stoppage now. Doctor apparently couldn't get the feed, but it was up on the big screen surely, and they're patching up a guys head, what did he think happened?

47.02 Horwill has basically joined our line at the lineout.

51.35 Our scrum has fared very well against Quins, which is a positive sign.

52.44 OK, that's not a penalty try.  Glad the yellow came out though.

57.30 Cruse gets run over by Walker, not the first time he's gone down easy, think he's getting his body position wrong.

58.04 Cruse is also going down, not for the first time, injuries have hurt us, bringing AJ on now would have been nice.

59.36 If that is a knock on then their loosehead prop cannot go for it as he does, he's attempting to play from an offside position, should be a penalty to us.

61.50 Good attacking play sees us going forwards, Simpson plays fast when the tempo is fast, but when it's 50/50 he just doesn't drive it, and I think that we should be.

62 I love how the commentator tries to claim Quins have handled the yellow card very well, as long as you ignore the try...

63.33 Poor maul from us is turned over.

65.43 No arguments about the yellow to Cips. Potentially saved us conceding 7 there.

68.30 How can the ref call that flat? OK, we get the pen a second later, but it's still daft. Suspect we may have got the pen because of the bad flat call.

69.33 How Moore didn't get that as a turnover, after AJ just did? Makes me even more convinced it was contrition for the incorrect forwards call.

70ish, Launch gives away the pen, shame as he'd worked so hard.

76.05 Being very very picky, that was the second time Quins had engaged before the call of Set, and therefore should have been a penalty, not a free kick. The universe notices, and Brown daftly tries to keep it in, whilst knocking it forwards.

78.35 Care get's told to use it, cutely asks the ref if it's a scrum advantage, 10 seconds after being told to use it, finally passes.  Ref get's played absolutely there.

79.07 Make sure we arrive up. 79.39 straight off feet from quins.

And we lose.

Ref gave us very little indeed.  But we lost that game through our own errors.  I think we actually went fairly well funnily enough, including during our yellow card periods.  Simpson was a bit slow at times, but mostly fine.  10/12/13 went well for me, defensively too for the most part. Obviously need to gel more and get our timings better, and cut out the silly errors (like just dropping the ball).  Quins were extremely up for that game.

Our defence needs to continue to improve, but I do think it is improving.  We could do with getting players back too.  Lineout was mostly very good, scrum very good. I think Quins just beat us on intensity.  We'll see how things are at the end of the season.

I think Gaby Daly is worth sticking with, but could understand if Dai brings Gopps back at 12 (assuming Cips isn't broken).

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 12:46:35 PM »
Very interesting read as ever.

I do wonder if Cips feels more secure with Gopps outside him.  It almost feels like he feels he has to concentrate more on defence when he doesn't have SuperJimmy next to him in the line.  Whether he does or not I don't know, but if so I guess it should improve as Gabi settles in more.  Though it seems he played a lot better at 13, but that creates the dilemma of where we put Daly...
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Raggs

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 12:57:54 PM »
I think that was the first time Gaby played 12?  In addition to the fact he actually swapped 12/13 with Gopperth a lot at times.  It's a brand new combination, with players that have never played together, and will have had far less time training together, I wouldn't have expected it to look perfect.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 01:43:02 PM »
Great read. Cips to Gaby will work, but it will take time, as will Gaby to 13. It works by the book right now, so no criticism, but it needs to work outside the book, with close cutting lines, cutting back, offloads etc. They simply don't have the time playing together yet. For me, I would leave it like it is (Cips fitness/injury permitting) and work the season for a top 2 or top 4 finish, and then hope that injury list is short and cohesiveness is much better in the semi and final. Jimmy cannot be there all the time, and we have to assume that this and next year are his last as a player.

I have said this elsewhere, but knowing what I 'know' right now, I would have picked the same team, run the same tactics, but hoped for better ball handling and better decisions regarding when to box/field kick and when to keep it in the forwards.

Raggs

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 01:48:15 PM »
I'd have hoped for better luck with injuries.

Neils

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 03:35:52 PM »
You have a small squad and therefore every injury is going to impact. We came into this season with a fair number of longish term injuries and since the start we have accumulated more. I note other teams are picking up short term loans from down under. All we need is Ashley and one of our locks to get crocked and we begin to get very threadbare. I also think without Hoops our backline has difficulty functioning with any efficiency. Yes it is because some are new but getting them linking properly is going to lose us some more games.
On your summary I find them strangely compelling reading. Question - what is the purpose of touch line runners apart from wearing out our grass. The Daly paled kick was in full view of the west side touch person but he said diddly squat.
Let me tell you something cucumber

Raggs

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 03:51:16 PM »
For me the Gaby/Daly axis has to be bedded in, so it needs to play. No it's not as good as a combo that had a whole season together, but that's not the point, it's how good it can get, and I believe it can get past the previous combo in terms of quality.

I don't think there were too many offsides to be honest, and when people complained it was mostly when Simpson delayed, and then it's tough for the ARs to be sure if he's picked it up or not.  I do think some very obvious things were missed though, or rather ignored.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 04:07:20 PM »
Danny is indeed today in a sturdy leg brace. His Instagram timeline had him with it on in a medical facility. On the DW forum I had speculated it might be a ligament problem, as the hit, from where I was sat, looked like he was hit on the side of the knee. Not good. Four or more weeks I would guess.

Oneyedwasp

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 04:36:31 PM »
Enjoyed the summary, many thanks.
I'm unhappy with the loss but I think there's a lot to be positive about. We lost Symons before kick off, both our starting flankers early in the game, Cruse was receiving attention throughout the game, we were pretty much patched up, no criticism of replacements intended. Yet we still gave a great account of ourselves against a formidable Quins forward pack.

Brandnewtorugby

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 08:50:47 AM »
Thanks again for your review, learning lots from your observations.

Reider and Guy are great players, I know it's a tough position but I don't think I have seen either of them manage more than a few games without injury. Is it genetics, fitness, bad luck, too much bravery or not being precise enough? How has George Smith managed to stay fit and avoid major injury over such a long career?

Rifleman Harris

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 09:55:58 AM »
I agree re Guy, he is always picking up knocks, but I thought the issue with Reider was that he was / is a fringe player so missed out when one of the others came back from their various knocks.  I think he has had a few knocks but I didn't think it was unusually high (but that is based purely on perception and the stats may contradict that view).

wasps

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 03:18:53 PM »

Reider and Guy are great players, I know it's a tough position but I don't think I have seen either of them manage more than a few games without injury. Is it genetics, fitness, bad luck, too much bravery or not being precise enough? How has George Smith managed to stay fit and avoid major injury over such a long career?

I don't think I recall Rieder having too many injuries.
However, Guy has picked a few up over the last season or so.

Guy is 30 now (or is it 31?) and he's had quite a meteoric rise quite late in his career.
He bulked up a lot after he joined us to help handle the premiership physicality, so maybe that extra bulk is taking a toll.


George Smith is an exception to most rules and was playing at the highest level from an incredibly young age, so while he's body will have an accumulated battering over the years, he's always been able to manage it.

Raggs

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Re: Rewatched, daftly long notes.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 03:42:17 PM »
Smith has had some longer term injuries as well i believe.

It's a tough position, and knocks can happen.  Dead legs especially I'd have thought!