Wasps v Gloucester Post Match Thoughts.

[Wombles]

A new week creates a new problem.....

How do you solve a problem like Wasps?

Let me start by discussing the red card. Forget what the TMO said by calling "rugby incident". In years before and before the head injury and dementia discussion he would be right, however this is no longer the case. Intent is no longer important, it is outcome. Head contact means immediate starting point is red card and needs to be reduced by evidence. Thorley had a clear line of sight, he did not dip to tackle, there is no mitigation, he accelerated into the contact and contact was with the head and with force.....when you break it down as Carley did the outcome is clear and correct. This is a hard process the game is going through, however if we are to make our physical game as safe as possible, then this is a journey we must continue to follow.

To the game....and this weeks problem - besides discipline, profligate with ball in hand and set piece creaking once more, they are already known problems, and the reason we were 17 - 0 down after 40 minutes - is naivety. 19 - 17 up, final 10 minutes, scrum to us, what do we do? try to play from the base taking advantage of our one man advantage out wide to gain ground? No. How about a one out pass, crash ball, quick ruck and clever kick behind the defence into the Glos 22 forcing them to play from their red zone? sensible...but no. Try to buy a penalty from the scrum despite being in kicking range of 36? Why not! It was far to high risk and we, right, got punished when Glos won the scrum penalty. Sir Clive Woodward utilised the term TCUP/Thinking Clearly Under Pressure. It is this...the top 2 inches, that much needed commodity when fatigue is aplenty and the game is tight that leads players, leaders and teams make the right decision. Unfortunately this is missing at present....and against 14 men, the already poor excuses have no place to hide...this is a game we should of won.

But I will not throw the baby out with the bath water, there were positives. JTA much improved and his try scoring offload sublime. Miller has provided stability at full back that we need. Umaga had an improved performance, Ogre combative and everywhere. Youngs is back. We showed that when we dictate the speed of the game we can score and score well. Our defence was much improved over recent weeks. Younger and more inexperienced players are getting game time.

So where does this leave us? Well although Glos are an improving force, we should be closing these games out. Luckily we have senior players to return, and their performance and leadership is much needed, however we must still develop the whole squad so we do not dip like this in international windows and when injuries hit in the future.

Although last season is fresh in the mind, to think we can get top 4 now is fanciful, there is not enough in our game, our forwards, our back play, our set piece, our discipline and indeed our decision making this term to push to that level. Top 6 is a possibility, but we are going to have to improve greatly to get there, and on recent performances it is an outside bet rather than a prediction to be confident about.

Next up is away to Bristol....and looking at the form going into this we have two hopes of winning....My expectations will be hoping for a much better performance both in body and mind, and maybe a losing bonus point if we are lucky.

[Shugs]

My post match thoughts are that I'm stuck in rugby Groundhog Day. The weekly pattern: Concede loads of early points and far too many stupid penalties. If the opposition get s man down we must do the same - quickly. Lose most of our line outs, indulge in unchallengeable box kicking and knock on at each restart. Create a ten minute period of home and then watch the clock beat us as we unsuccessfully try to rescue things right at the end. The only positive today against the bottom team, with 14 men was Rob Miller. He must be a starter now.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Let me start by discussing the red card. Forget what the TMO said by calling "rugby incident". In years before and before the head injury and dementia discussion he would be right, however this is no longer the case. Intent is no longer important, it is outcome.

There was an interesting incident in the Leicester game last night. A player was pushed and that led to a foul play incident. Wayne Barnes went through the procedures and decided that there were mitigating circumstances and reduced it to a yellow. Everyone agreed even that was harsh but it turned out once they start with a red card incident mitigation can only ever reduce it to yellow.

On the incident at hand I thought the ref was faultless in the way he went through the procedure to reach his decision. Lets not forget it was players who asked for this tightening of the rules.

[ricohchezwasp]

Groundhog Day yet again, another waste of an afternoon watching poor officiating on top of a hopeless approach to the game. Countless dubious decisions the ted card in my view was a tad harsh fekitoa yellow nonsense deliberate knockout which numpty called that.... the wheeled scrum the forward pass on their second try, I was just waiting for Carley to argue with Joe in the stands. The game not just Wasps is becoming unwatchable, if only I could go out next Friday night........

[Neils]

Bit overkill. Thoughts - we are currently crap and somehow have to dig ourselves out of it before the first weekend in April when we have a home Euro match. Sorted.

[RogerE]

Firstly no amount of coaching can prevent the brain farts that led to many of the penalties we conceded. Fekitoa, for example had a couple today. In an ideal situation the coaches could "rest" players to try to to knock it into their skulls to stop them, but we are really quite threadbare with alternative plauyers we could use.

Miller was excellent, but the last couple of games he has had have resulted in him doing "silly" things that have resukted in it being worse for us - today, for example, if he hadn't given away that silly penalty that resulted in the fracas, Fekitoa wouldn't have rushed-in and got a yellow.

I also thinj we should use the scrum to get the ball out as soon as possible, rather than trying to milk penalties. We showed how good we are when we try to run the ball - let's do it from the scrum base.

[Wombles]

A specialist kicking coach and a sports psychologist would be two wonderful signings right now.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Firstly no amount of coaching can prevent the brain farts that led to many of the penalties we conceded. Fekitoa, for example had a couple today. In an ideal situation the coaches could "rest" players to try to to knock it into their skulls to stop them, but we are really quite threadbare with alternative plauyers we could use.

+1

Miller was excellent, but the last couple of games he has had have resulted in him doing "silly" things that have resukted in it being worse for us - today, for example, if he hadn't given away that silly penalty that resulted in the fracas, Fekitoa wouldn't have rushed-in and got a yellow.

Rob was daft to hold on but its a bit harsh to blame him for Fek's stupidity. Fek's an international and should not only  know better but should be setting examples.

I also thinj we should use the scrum to get the ball out as soon as possible, rather than trying to milk penalties. We showed how good we are when we try to run the ball - let's do it from the scrum base.

Agreed, running the ball is the Wasps way and they looked most comfortable and in control when that's what they were doing, even in the first half.

There was a post match interview, or maybe just an interview, with Lee last season when he talked about having to have more than just a free running game and we'll score more tries than you attitude if you want to win trophies. I wonder if trying to get some of the basics drilled in to them and trying to play a more disciplined (in the rugby sense rather than penalty sense) game has taken the edge off players?

[ricohchezwasp]

Miller was excellent but probably should  have had an HIA and then wouldn’t of reacted being hit a second time pretty heavily. his try and Bassett’s finish were meagre highlights. Scrum struggled lineout shocking snd brain fart penalties ain’t gonna win games

[HDAWG]

Urgh. We're capable of playing well, and I think that's the best we've looked for weeks. But to lose against Gloucester, and Gloucester a man down for 50+ minutes? I keep using injuries and the lack of break between 2 seasons as an excuse, but after a while it feels like we're in same position before Lee took over...

Relegation is nothing to worry about this season, so I say slog out this season, try again next season with fresh start. Then we can judge us properly under normal circumstances. Just frustrating to watch.

[Peej]

Defeat today was inexcusable. We are deep in the shit, and I can't see us getting out of it

[Steve from Cov]

If we were able to choose a full strength squad we would have easily beaten Gloucester today.

The sooner we get Joe, Dan, Alfie, (Kieran and Ryan and Paolo) the better.

[Andywasp50]

Let me start by discussing the red card. Forget what the TMO said by calling "rugby incident". In years before and before the head injury and dementia discussion he would be right, however this is no longer the case. Intent is no longer important, it is outcome.

There was an interesting incident in the Leicester game last night. A player was pushed and that led to a foul play incident. Wayne Barnes went through the procedures and decided that there were mitigating circumstances and reduced it to a yellow. Everyone agreed even that was harsh but it turned out once they start with a red card incident mitigation can only ever reduce it to yellow.

On the incident at hand I thought the ref was faultless in the way he went through the procedure to reach his decision. Lets not forget it was players who asked for this tightening of the rules.

And yet again the incident came from a box kick that set up a chase and smash scenario. Until we rule out something that is so inherently dangerous in the game we’re going to get this happening over and over. It all stems from the Saracens - and now England, Sale and Leicester - game plan of kick, chase and smash with a marauding, very physical (and normally South African) back row. It’s like treating the symptoms and not the illness.

I was also a bit perturbed by the TMO trying to talk Carley out of it and sighing in frustration. Additionally Atkinson on the commentary saying ‘no point asking the TMO if you’re not going to listen to him’ on a later incident. The TMO is there to support the ref, not the other way around.

[jamestaylor002]

Additionally Atkinson on the commentary saying ‘no point asking the TMO if you’re not going to listen to him’ on a later incident.

His commentary was probably the worst I've heard in a long time. I think we spent most of the game listening about Gloucester.

[westwaleswasp]

Charley noticeably punished teams kicking today-  from the red to deliberate knock on, the team kicking got punished more often than not. This could be luck, but could be a reaction to the mass criticism of Sale, Tigers, England et al. Maybe the refs have been told.
 I personally find no pleasure out if the box kick in the middle of the pitch and welcome anything to reduce its impact.