england

[wycombewasp]

dobby got 5 min.

[Neils]

4 minutes 50 seconds

[wycombewasp]

I know England won but who would you rather watch, I know my ans.

[wycombewasp]

he won the game for England

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I know England won but who would you rather watch, I know my ans.

Wasps, obviously, but it was a good game of rugby, esp 1st half, and it was good to see a bit of ambition from England.

I've said it before but I don't understand why people rave over Billy Vunipola -  they said in the 1st half he had 10 carries for 40m, that can be done running in to contact off the base of the scrum. I may be missing something but I expect a #8 to be breaking the gain line occasionally. So he pulled in a few defenders, but name a Prem #8 who can't do that? More annoyingly the commentators even made the point he'd been allowed to play himself in to form - in an England jersey!

[Beasties]

Aldritt was the best 8 on display today.

And FWIW I wouldn't have taken Youngs off today. He was having a good game for him and was making some good plays surprisingly. Putting Robson on with 5 mins to go just seemed daft in the circumstances. There have been many matches over the last few years I'd have gladly subbed him in the first half.

[Shugs]

It was an entertaining game and England played well. They actually involved the backs which helped. My priority is Wasps players and the 6N has been terrible for us. Launchbury injured, Rowlands stitched up, Robson and Odogwu wasted. Willis - so unfortunate. I don't disagree with Blackett that we want our players playing international rugby - but it's hurting us at club level.

[mike909]

It was an entertaining game and England played well. They actually involved the backs which helped.

Just on the game itself - it will again divide those elsewhere for whom Jones is the devil or god and England were lucky or bold

FWIW - I thought England might sneak it - they are capable in any game - but lucky to an extent that France were post Covid break and lacked gametime. And lacked the sense at times to do the simple. BV was predictable - but his fans will suggest he like his best - he really wasn't and had France kicked sensibly out of hand and won their own line outs, England's throwing reckless passes, would seem just that

The France coach will be happy - not with the result - but that France were able to deliver under pressure, the sort of imaginative play that can unlock any defence. England showed that professional rugby player can pass it and make breaks - but it seemed too much "one off's" and not "units" of players making things happen

It was also clear that the French approach to the breakdown was more per the Laws suggest and the ref agreed mostly.

If England go onto give Ireland a good seeing to, it's been a fair season - but one where I'm not persuaded that we do have the ideas - were we to come up against a team prepared to be more pragmatic and not play like its a RWC group game between two teams that can't qualify.....

[JonnyD]

Why didn’t we seemingly actually want to play some rugby today when all other games over the last year have involved us kicking the ball away and putting pressure on. Quite refreshing today in the backs.

[Rossm]

Bobby Bridge tweeted this:

Pleased for England, hopefully it's a turning point. But...
Dan Robson & Paolo Odogwu minutes missed not playing for Wasps during Six Nations:  1120.
Dan Robson & Paolo Odogwu England minutes during Six Nations: 67

Of course, Paolo has yet to feature, so minutes are all Dan's.

Have we been f*cked over or what?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Aldritt was the best 8 on display today.

And FWIW I wouldn't have taken Youngs off today. He was having a good game for him and was making some good plays surprisingly. Putting Robson on with 5 mins to go just seemed daft in the circumstances. There have been many matches over the last few years I'd have gladly subbed him in the first half.

Agree about Youngs, best game for a while. I forget who said it but I heard one pundit say some time ago that Youngs has 1 brilliant game followed by 2 as village idiot. I wouldn't go that far but I understand the point.

[InBetweenWasp]

England did a Ben Youngs yesterday and had one of those 1-in-10 performances.

They were markedly better than the Autumn Nations Cup or other Six Nations games and the press are rightly praising for them. 

We know the players can play like that; with a far greater ferocity, accuracy and with pace/attacking intent.  The big question has really been why weren’t they playing like that.

From what it looks like, it’s been tactically driven by Jones.  As how else do you explain it? - Surely, it’s not been Farrell and co getting on the pitch and saying “Forget what we’ve been coached to do all week, let’s kick the crap out of the ball”

Some interesting undertones around these performances tending to come when they’re underdogs and England, like France, struggle with the mantra of being favourites.

The All Blacks and peak-Woodward era England are really the only teams to have been able to be favourites and not flounder.  The great Wales and Ireland teams of their era have tended to flounder as favourites.  South Africa have often done well in tournaments as relative underdogs, Australia too.

[wasps]

So that begs the question, are Ben Youngs' normal performances because of the way he's being told to play, or because that's the way he plays?


I always remember when he broke through and he was an absolute live wire, always probing the fringes, and electric pace when required...
However people then complained that he took 2 steps every time (because he was looking for a gap at the fringes), and his game seemed to change completely.



So, has his game completely changed, or is he the ultimate pro who plays to the game plan ?

[InBetweenWasp]

So that begs the question, are Ben Youngs' normal performances because of the way he's being told to play, or because that's the way he plays?

I’d love to see a journo ask the question to Eddie, Faz, or Youngs. 

Yesterday he was quick to the base and decisive.  He lacked the sniping of old that I really like to see from a 9 and I’d like to see him kick in behind defences - not a box kick, but a grubbed or chip.  Keep the opposition guessing and worry them.  Create uncertainty and the gaps will open up.  Youngs, Care, Simmo, Robson all had that ability to take a mile when given an inch and I’m sure they still do.  Just need the backing to take it.

Eddie talks about needing to learn to win ugly.  Great teams win ugly, not because they spend time practising playing ugly but because they have that self-belief and a never-say-die dogged attitude. 

I’d much rather us play with ambition and purpose and lose the occasional game (World Cups aside perhaps!) than watch a boring kick-fest where we grind the opposition into submission and edge out wins with a couple of late tries when the opposition are beaten.

[hookender]

Just so annoying that England can play like that - with more or less the same players, proving there is a plan B.
 Why persevere with a turgid plan A , which didn’t ,and makes grim watching,when its obvious they do have it in them to change over mid match.